[RichardS]

Since you are not telling us where you are from and the contents of your argument, I assume that you do not know what white out means.

I have driven through snow storms where the wind is driving the snow horizontally about two feet above the road and the road itself is covered in white ice. I have also driven in show at night where the snowflakes appear to be flying at you in a way similar to the old Windows 3.0 stars screen saver but the number of white things flying at you is a order of magnitude or two or three higher. Having a computer system that is fast enough and smart enough to detect several million moving objects that appear to be coming straight at you would be a challenge, it was a challenge to drive through too. (There was also a foot and a half of Rocky Mountain powder on the road, no strips, no shoulder markings and only cats eye reflectors, also white, every 20-40 yards.) Visibility in these situations varies from 10 feet to 30 feet - 50 miles an hour is going to get you off the road and buried under the snow. Also remember that snow = water that absorbs GPS signals like you would not believe.

Anyway, show me a company that is testing under those conditions (Southern California, Texas, Nevada etc. rarely have those conditions) and we will talk. The Uber car that killed the pedestrian had some of it's basic systems turned off and you can see what happened. What is going to determine that an autonomous car will be able to deal with good conditions and bad conditions. Will they be regulated? Who will certify them as safe. (I worked for Boeing and Philips Healthcare and I know a little bit about certification across multiple jurisdictions) I do think it is possible that autonomous vehicles will come to pass, I just don't want to be among the dead people who are considered "proof of concept".

I've only ever been in a real white out when I was skiing. All you can see is white. You are surrounded by white. You can't tell if you are standing still on your skis or moving. Very weird feeling. I've been trying to find some photos I took in the late 1970s while driving near Mt Hotham in Victoria, Australia. Almost complete white out. I was doing about 3mph. There was a near-vertical drop on both sides of the road. Luckily the last snow plough left a 2 ft high ridge at the side of the road and I could bump off it to keep on track. The road was lined with 20 ft high poles every 30 metres or so. There were signs saying "Keep Left of Poles" or "Keep Right of Poles". I did

I think that autonomous vehicles, when they are safe, are a good idea for people who don't like to drive or for Camry drivers. I apologise to the few Camry drivers who haven't tried to kill me while I was riding my bike. You are in a minority, but you shouldn't be stigmatised by the behaviour of the majority. But the sooner you get an autonomous car, the better.

[LensBeginner]

There were signs saying "Keep Left of Poles" or "Keep Right of Poles". I did

...were you shouting "Gdzie jesteś?" out of the window every 10 seconds?

[RichardS]

Oh, wait.

Would we have them in all the same types of vehicles we have now? Cars, pickups, utes, light and heavy trucks? All types of vehicles would need to be autonomous. Think of all the truckdrivers that could be put out of a job. There are 3.5 million people employed as truck drivers in the US, about a quarter million in Canada, and I suspect Europe has a large number of truck drivers too.

What will they do?

They'll be offered retraining as autonomous vehicle dispensers, of course. They'll have really nice uniforms with cute hats. They'll have to learn a sing-song script, but they'll be freed from having to think and they'll become nice little happy pill-controlled drones. Welcome to the happy happy new future.

[RichardS]

I'm on my second car that is fitted with a cruise control, and I hate the concept. The fact that I can set the speed and take my foot off the accelerator just feels wrong

My theory is that cruise control is popular in countries where the speed limits are artificially low and speed enforcement regimes are designed to create government revenue. If you get and fines and points for exceeding the speed limit by 3kmh (1.9mph) and the state government is raking in more that $600 million a year, then it's not safety motivated. My cars for the last 35 years have had cruise control as standard. I only use it to avoid exceeding the speed limit.

Driving on cruise control leads to distraction and boredom and distracted or bored drivers crash. And kill people.

[RichardS]

...were you shouting "Gdzie jesteś?" out of the window every 10 seconds?

Nope. I was being very quiet in case I started an avalanche. Besides, it was too cold to open the window.

Many people don't associate Australia with snow, but the area covered by snow in the winter is about the same size as Switzerland. This is from a different road at a different time (1990), but it shows we do get snow.

[ThorSanchez]

People own cars (cars defined as motor vehicles)
These same people vote to elect public officials.
Politicians want to keep their power by being elected.

What do you think would happen to any politician who backed the confiscation of non-autonomous vehicles?

I think that was another tongue-in-cheek post warning us of the dangers of, well... not leaving everyone alone to do as they please. At least I hope so, otherwise the apocalyptic-ness of it was a little over-the-top.

---------- Post added 07-04-18 at 07:09 AM ----------

My theory is that cruise control is popular in countries where the speed limits are artificially low and speed enforcement regimes are designed to create government revenue. If you get and fines and points for exceeding the speed limit by 3kmh (1.9mph) and the state government is raking in more that $600 million a year, then it's not safety motivated. My cars for the last 35 years have had cruise control as standard. I only use it to avoid exceeding the speed limit.

Driving on cruise control leads to distraction and boredom and distracted or bored drivers crash. And kill people.

I'd like to see data backing up the claim that cruise control is dangerous. I have to think it's mostly used in uncongested highway driving, which has to have among the lowest crash rates of any driving scenarios. Would no cruise control lower the crash rate in those situations from "very, very low" to "trivial"? Maybe.

I won't argue that some places use speeding, red light cameras, and similar to generate revenues with little regard for safety. The city of Washington D.C. generates $millions from traffic cameras despite overwhelmingly congested, slow, city traffic.

[monochrome]

People own cars (cars defined as motor vehicles)
These same people vote to elect public officials.
Politicians want to keep their power by being elected.

What do you think would happen to any politician who backed the confiscation of non-autonomous vehicles?

Bureaucrats aren’t elected.

[monochrome]

I think that was another tongue-in-cheek post warning us of the dangers of, well... not leaving everyone alone to do as they please. At least I hope so, otherwise the apocalyptic-ness of it was a little over-the-top.

Nope. It’s real. It is the scientific conclusion of automakers and regulators that driven cars cannot successfully co-exist with driverless card in urban and freeway environments. Human randomness is too variable to predict. Saw it last fall on PBS.

[ThorSanchez]

Make sure you keep your hands on the wheel and look out the front of the car. I continue to wonder what one of these systems would do in a white-out where the GPS is weak, there is no or very poor cell (mobile for you non US types) and you are 20-30 miles from the nearest convenience. Just how long will the heater run on a Tesla?

This highlights how most Americans (and for all I know most people) spec out their cars: for the 95 or 99% use case. 85% of the time I use my car it's to drive 17 miles each way to work with just me on two-lane roads. Most of the people around me are in similar situations. But half of the cars commuting alongside me are 3-row SUVs, crew-cab pickup trucks, Jeeps (many of them modified for heavy off-road use)... all cars with capabilities that go unused the vast majority of the time with their owners often stretching budgets and making long commitments while being underwater on loans to afford these largely cosmetic (for their use case) capabilities. My parents have a large 3-row SUV for the one or two times a year it's slightly more convenient to take the four grandkids in one vehicle instead of two, while getting poorer mileage, handling, stopping distance, cost etc, etc 100% of the time compared to a smaller vehicle.

How many people do you know who'd buy a Tesla as their only vehicle and even occasionally be presented with the case where they're stuck in a raging snowstorm many miles from the nearest town? This has to be a case that an average Tesla buyer encounters once every 10 or 20 lifetimes.

[ThorSanchez]

Bureaucrats aren’t elected.

If you have a functioning legislature it would control and direct what influence bureaucrats have, and also be responsible for appointing the higher level bureaucrats. In the US our legislature largely doesn't function so they punt a lot of things to civil servants. You won't get rid of bureaucrats, they are necessary. But there are ways to fix the legislature, although they're mostly subject to the same problems that led to the dysfunction in Congress.

[monochrome]

If you have a functioning legislature it would control and direct what influence bureaucrats have, and also be responsible for appointing the higher level bureaucrats. In the US our legislature largely doesn't function so they punt a lot of things to civil servants. You won't get rid of bureaucrats, they are necessary. But there are ways to fix the legislature, although they're mostly subject to the same problems that led tow the dysfunction in Congress.

Logically you are correct. Practically, the Civil Service Bureaucracy has created work rules intentionally designed to turn back any such attempts at Congressional oversight.

We can’t take this discussion any further because it is already ‘political’.

[onlineflyer]

We can’t take this discussion any further because it is already ‘political’.

Sorry, I didn't think of that when I did my original post. One of the great things about the forum is its lack of political anger. It makes for a much better experience.

[Racer X 69]

Time to put my moderator hat on.

We can’t take this discussion any further because it is already ‘political’.

That's right.

Sorry, I didn't think of that when I did my original post. One of the great things about the forum is its lack of political anger. It makes for a much better experience.

Oh there are plenty who have the political anger. The Religion and Politics section was closed some time back, because they couldn't have an adult conversation about those subjects.

So please everyone, let's stay on the topic of autonomous vehicles, and avoid discussion of the political and legislative side of it.

OK now, off with that hat . . . . . . .


. . . . . . . . . I see not one comment about the autonomous beer delivery truck video I posted.

[Sailor]

I wish they would do that now when some moron feels it is OK to check Facebook while driving and place everyone else at risk of injury or death.

Or texting!

Jer

[Racer X 69]

Excellent point! Construction zones are a mess.

Tell me about it.

People generally fail to slow down in orange barrel zones. They ignore flaggers, and show little, if any regard for the safety and welfare of the workers there.

When I worked on heavy trucks at the electric utility I was frequently sent out to repair breakdowns along the side of a road or highway, so I know first hand how inconsiderate people can be. The total lack of regard for the lives of the crews by passerby was disappointing. Every one of those men and women alongside the road have family at home expecting them to return safe and unharmed at the end of the day.

No one wants to go visit a family member or friend in the ICU, or attend a funeral, because some self absorbed jackass can't be bothered with driving safely and respectfully through a work zone. The few seconds of delay are minor considering the lifetime of grief that is caused by disregard for the health and welfare of those who are simply doing their job.

I sincerely hope that autonomous vehicles will be programmed to automatically creep at 5 mph though construction zones.