[photoptimist]

I drove 800,000 miles in five years while at the wheel of Monstro and company.

When not employed as a truck driver I average around 35,000 annually.

So far I have driven about a quarter of a million miles.

Indeed! And as a professional driver, you are likely a much safer driver.

Despite the popular opinion that big trucks are a hazard on the highways, the analyses of accidents show that it's car drivers that are at fault most of the time.

From a strict societal safety point of view, autonomous cars have a lower required threshold of performance than do autonomous trucks because human car drivers are less safe than human truck drivers.

[photoptimist]

So who get the ticket if a driverless vehicle is caught speeding? How does the cop even pull it over in the first place? There is too much money made by too many government entities to ever make driverless vehicles mandatory. Plus modern automobiles are way too easy to hack.

[PDL]

An autonomous vehicle's reaction will almost certainly be faster and better than most human driver's responses. Autonomous vehicles have long-range sensors, can see in all directions all the time, and have much faster reaction times.

One word, Uber.

---------- Post added 08-03-18 at 01:12 PM ----------

Taking an autonomous car to Yosemite would be just like renting a car. You pick the vehicle that has the features you want (size, towing capacity, etc.), tell the service that you want the car for 10 day, and off you go. Or maybe you don't even need to say how long you want the car but the service changes some rate for every mile you go and every minute you keep the car.

And who will determine these costs? The service? The local city? (Seattle has different rental rates than say Yakima) The state? (Rental cars are few and expensive in Wyoming compared to Washington) Insurance Laws, chains (who is going to put chains on the autonomous car?) etc. etc. etc. Your idea is nice, but the reality is dirty and will take quite some time to get "fixed".

---------- Post added 08-03-18 at 01:17 PM ----------

The funny thing about the unpredictable is that with enough data, it becomes statistical. Even the edge scenarios become frequent events with enough data. The Waymo fleet currently has 8 million miles of driving experience. That's 600 years of driving experience (the average American only drive 13,474 miles a year). Those cars have seen (and collected data) on 10 lifetimes of driving experience.

And who is Waymo sharing their data with? What states are Waymo testing their cars in (AZ, CA others?) Are they running on Interstates and/or backroads, read unimproved and most likely not mapped? How is their record when driving in really bad rain, snow, sleet etc. (Not all that easy to find snowy roads in LA, Silicon Valley and Phoenix.[COLOR="Silver"]

[photoptimist]

One word, Uber.

???? What does that mean? Are you talking about the case where the Uber sensors detected the jaywalker a full 6 seconds before the human driver failed to stop the car? That seems like a good reason to prohibit human drivers.

And who will determine these costs? The service? The local city? (Seattle has different rental rates than say Yakima) The state? (Rental cars are few and expensive in Wyoming compared to Washington) Insurance Laws, chains (who is going to put chains on the autonomous car?) etc. etc. etc. Your idea is nice, but the reality is dirty and will take quite some time to get "fixed".

Who will determine the rates? Whoever is offering the rental. Why are you advocating that cities and states set prices?

[PDL]

As for flat tires and breakdowns, most human drivers just call AAA, their car dealer, or a tow truck. An autonomous car would make two calls even before it came to a full stop by the side of the road. The first call would be to hail another autonomous car to pickup the rider and the second would be to the repair service. The rider would probably be on their way before the tow truck came.

Have you ever tried to get ahold of AAA in the middle of the Red Desert in Wyoming - there is no cell coverage out there and it would take a "tow truck" quite a few hours to get there on a good day. If you live in an area where there are a lot of people, yes this may be true, but out where I grew up and in the city where I grew up, there were two tow trucks and the response time was measured in days when it got bad.

Oh, but I remember now, in the early threads you said that the autonomous vehicles would not rely on cell coverage or GPS to find out where they are. It will be magic - magic from Google.

---------- Post added 08-03-18 at 01:34 PM ----------

???? What does that mean? Are you talking about the case where the Uber sensors detected the jaywalker a full 6 seconds before the human driver failed to stop the car? That seems like a good reason to prohibit human drivers.


Who will determine the rates? Whoever is offering the rental. Why are you advocating that cities and states set prices?

One, the human did stop the car, but only after the car hit the person. The car would have stopped or tried to maneuver around the obstruction IF the company would have not shut down the system. We have already discussed this to near death, suffice it to say that in a "normal" situation the autonomous car hit and killed a human. Even to the extent that Uber moved from AZ toe MD because AZ's restrictions were too high to continue the testing. Note the word testing.

As for rates, yes, cities and states regulate rental car daily rates. It is here and if you think that the local entities aren't going to take their pound of flesh you are sorely mistaken. I am just waiting for the "surcharge" to be added to access to National Parks by any vehicle. I am not advocating that cities or states set rates, they set surcharges - i.e. taxes.

[Racer X 69]

Have you ever tried to get ahold of AAA in the middle of the Red Desert in Wyoming - there is no cell coverage out there and it would take a "tow truck" quite a few hours to get there on a good day. If you live in an area where there are a lot of people, yes this may be true, but out where I grew up and in the city where I grew up, there were two tow trucks and the response time was measured in days when it got bad.

Autonomous vehicles could be fitted with the same systems that are used for OnStar, or the systems used in big truck fleets to communicate with drivers and monitor location, movement, etc.

Those systems function anywhere, provided a reasonably clear view of the sky.

A vehicle in any remote location will still be able to communicate its status to the company or agency, and that entity will be able to respond appropriately.

[Racer X 69]

Indeed! And as a professional driver, you are likely a much safer driver.

I'd like to think so. And I did manage a considerable number of miles in big trucks without an accident. There were plenty of close calls, some the fault of 4 wheelers who don't grasp that an 80,000lb truck doesn't maneuver, accelerate or slow down as well as their 3,000lb econobox, and some I have to own.

Indeed, as professional, I was at work, representing the carrier I drove for, and the customer who we were moving goods for. I had an obligation to operate the vehicle I was driving in a manner that respects the safety of everyone on the road, those near it, the loads I was hauling, the vehicle that was in my care, and of course myself.

In many ways developing that discipline has made me a better driver overall, no matter if it is while I am getting paid, or when I'm headed tot he grocery store for a six pack.

Despite the popular opinion that big trucks are a hazard on the highways, the analyses of accidents show that it's car drivers that are at fault most of the time.

For sure.

All those years running up and down the Big Road I saw plenty of wrecks, even witnessed many happening. Most were the result of the fine driving skills of dipsticks in 4 wheelers.

One that I saw more than any other was idiot 4 wheelers that cut over and stop in the space a big truck needs for stopping in heavy, stop and go traffic. Then the guy in the truck either rear ends the moron and shoves him into the next car or truck, or jackknifes, and then still slams the dope.

And when a driver leaves anything close to the required safe following distance, there will be at least one more car than what will fit squeezing in.



I shouldn't beat up on 4 wheelers too much, there are plenty of Big Truck drivers that need to be pulled out of their seat and shot. I could write a book about them.

Maybe some other time . . . . . . . . .

From a strict societal safety point of view, autonomous cars have a lower required threshold of performance than do autonomous trucks because human car drivers are less safe than human truck drivers.

I think that is a great observation.

Also, cars and light trucks (pickups) are lighter, more nimble, accelerate and stop better than large vehicles.

They also squash up easier when caught between two trucks.

[Liney]

Of course someone will think this is a good idea....

[Racer X 69]

Of course someone will think this is a good idea....

That is something I would do.

[Racer X 69]

If all vehicles are autonomous (in the idealistic Utopian future), then there will no longer be a need for traffic cops. All vehicles will perform perfectly, never speed, never tailgate, never collide with each other or solid stationary objects too big to move, all in perfect harmony.

And there will never be blue haired old ladies in the hammer lane going 45 with the left turn signal on. Those cars will then be in the granny lane where they belong, and grandma will be knitting a nice scarf for one of the grandkids.

[PDL]

Autonomous vehicles could be fitted with the same systems that are used for OnStar, or the systems used in big truck fleets to communicate with drivers and monitor location, movement, etc.

Those systems function anywhere, provided a reasonably clear view of the sky.

A vehicle in any remote location will still be able to communicate its status to the company or agency, and that entity will be able to respond appropriately.

Well, my point still stands whether you have OnStar or some other future development of communication to work with. I grant you that OnStar might be able to be contacted, but the tow truck will still be hours away or if it is after dark, the next day. There are places (as you well know) where services are few and far between. Remember, we are talking about getting around on back roads too, not just interstates. Having a service provider (Facebook, Apple, Google, Microsoft, Uber, Lyft, Hertz, Enterprise, Avis etc.) who will have enough cars to serve even a single locality is going to cost billions. And it order to get to the pie in the sky autonomous everywhere concept means that you will have to replace every single car on the road. That in it self will take multiple decades. Oh and reasonably clear view of the sky, don't get me started on that one as weather (water vapor) eats radio signals. Appropriate response may take quite a few hours in some sections of the more sparsely inhabited areas of the world. (Gee, we haven't even talked about places like Alaska and parts of British Columbia in Canada. Whoa, a whole new can of worms)

[Racer X 69]

Well, my point still stands whether you have OnStar or some other future development of communication to work with. I grant you that OnStar might be able to be contacted, but the tow truck will still be hours away or if it is after dark, the next day. There are places (as you well know) where services are few and far between. Remember, we are talking about getting around on back roads too, not just interstates.

So pitch a tent, build a fire and fix something to eat. Anyone who is that far into the wilderness and is not prepared to spend a night or three is a citiot and and deserves to die in the wild.

Having a service provider (Facebook, Apple, Google, Microsoft, Uber, Lyft, Hertz, Enterprise, Avis etc.) who will have enough cars to serve even a single locality is going to cost billions. And it order to get to the pie in the sky autonomous everywhere concept means that you will have to replace every single car on the road. That in it self will take multiple decades.

A complete replacement of the current fleet of vehicles would only take 10 to 15 years. Look around at the average age of the cars on the road today. Not many more than 10 to 15 years old.

Usually the older vehicles are owned by guys like me that do their own maintenance and keep them in great shape, or the older classic and antique cars seen driving around in the summer.

And the few slag heaps that the poor people have patched together with duct tape and bailing wire.

Oh and reasonably clear view of the sky, don't get me started on that one as weather (water vapor) eats radio signals. Appropriate response may take quite a few hours in some sections of the more sparsely inhabited areas of the world. (Gee, we haven't even talked about places like Alaska and parts of British Columbia in Canada. Whoa, a whole new can of worms)

The systems I mentioned use GPS satellites for bidirectional communication. Clouds or moisture are not a problem. Dense tree cover, or a granite ridge do block them, which is why I mentioned a reasonably clear sky view.

Going closer to the poles isn't an issue for GPS, because there are plenty of satellites in many different orbits to provide global coverage.

And GPS communication is pretty fast too. When driving big trucks I communicated real time with my dispatcher, via the GPS based system in the truck, when in very remote places, where I had no cell phone service.

[dbs]

Hi all


Futureistic view

No private cars in any large city all autonomous
Country still private
Going to the city.
Parking stations where you change to an autonomous vehicle on the outskirts
Don't like it ...stiff
Welcome to the new world ( I won't be around to see it )

Dave

[Rondec]

I'd like to think so. And I did manage a considerable number of miles in big trucks without an accident. There were plenty of close calls, some the fault of 4 wheelers who don't grasp that an 80,000lb truck doesn't maneuver, accelerate or slow down as well as their 3,000lb econobox, and some I have to own.

Indeed, as professional, I was at work, representing the carrier I drove for, and the customer who we were moving goods for. I had an obligation to operate the vehicle I was driving in a manner that respects the safety of everyone on the road, those near it, the loads I was hauling, the vehicle that was in my care, and of course myself.

In many ways developing that discipline has made me a better driver overall, no matter if it is while I am getting paid, or when I'm headed tot he grocery store for a six pack.



For sure.

All those years running up and down the Big Road I saw plenty of wrecks, even witnessed many happening. Most were the result of the fine driving skills of dipsticks in 4 wheelers.

One that I saw more than any other was idiot 4 wheelers that cut over and stop in the space a big truck needs for stopping in heavy, stop and go traffic. Then the guy in the truck either rear ends the moron and shoves him into the next car or truck, or jackknifes, and then still slams the dope.

And when a driver leaves anything close to the required safe following distance, there will be at least one more car than what will fit squeezing in.



I shouldn't beat up on 4 wheelers too much, there are plenty of Big Truck drivers that need to be pulled out of their seat and shot. I could write a book about them.

Maybe some other time . . . . . . . . .




I think that is a great observation.

Also, cars and light trucks (pickups) are lighter, more nimble, accelerate and stop better than large vehicles.

They also squash up easier when caught between two trucks.

You are the exception rather than the rule. We have a minimum level of driving knowledge necessary for a person to drive in the US and once you have a license, you have to do something pretty bad to lose it. My grandmother was basically blind and 98 years old and still was able to renew her license in Florida. Fortunately, my mom was able to get her car keys away from her and she is grounded. But from a human standpoint, you have people who are unsafe for a number of reasons -- inexperience, distracted reasons (kids in the back seat, cell phone, messing with their make up, whatever), and overly aggressive driving patterns. Would autonomous vehicles fix these things? Yes, but only if they were the only type of vehicles on the road.

I don't see autonomous vehicles becoming dominant any time soon, but I am more nervous about other drivers than about a sudden flat tire, weird weather pattern, or something like that.

[photoptimist]

Well, my point still stands whether you have OnStar or some other future development of communication to work with. I grant you that OnStar might be able to be contacted, but the tow truck will still be hours away or if it is after dark, the next day. There are places (as you well know) where services are few and far between. Remember, we are talking about getting around on back roads too, not just interstates. Having a service provider (Facebook, Apple, Google, Microsoft, Uber, Lyft, Hertz, Enterprise, Avis etc.) who will have enough cars to serve even a single locality is going to cost billions. And it order to get to the pie in the sky autonomous everywhere concept means that you will have to replace every single car on the road. That in it self will take multiple decades. Oh and reasonably clear view of the sky, don't get me started on that one as weather (water vapor) eats radio signals. Appropriate response may take quite a few hours in some sections of the more sparsely inhabited areas of the world. (Gee, we haven't even talked about places like Alaska and parts of British Columbia in Canada. Whoa, a whole new can of worms)

What does this have to do with autonomous cars? It seems like a fundamental problem regardless of who is driving. It's not like human beings have some secret telepathic and telekinetic ability to cope with a breakdown in the middle of no where.