Ken Rockwell on Subwoofers

slartibartfast01 · 12-24-2018, 12:37 PM - **1 Like**

Reassuring to see Ken Rockwell knows as much about audio as he does about photography.
https://kenrockwell.com/audio/stereo-subwoofers.htm
Most articles I have seen written by professional sound engineers say low bass is still mixed to centre but Ken reckons it has been mixed in stereo since 1982.

AsahiGlass · 12-24-2018, 03:29 PM

It doesn't really matter, because however the album is mixed is how it comes out. He's kinda right because if you want to hear it correctly you need 2 channels of full range.

And digital is a new thing, it's released in digital format but not recorded in digital format. It costs more money to record on tape, and yes some bands prefer tape.

There are plenty of documentaries on the subject.

I personally prefer full range speakers... subs are for bass, and I don't listen to music with 808 bass.

But hey whats your take?

**boriscleto** · 12-24-2018, 03:33 PM - **1 Like**

Ken Rockwell is into submissive furries?

PDL · 12-24-2018, 07:05 PM - **2 Likes**

Ken Rockwell is a proponent of turning up the saturation to 11. (Sorry Spinal Tap).

Just scroll down to his image of Yosemite, for further punishment look through his Yosemite/latest gallery. The colors are so fake they make your eyes bleed.

I would not trust him as far as I can spit - and I mostly drool these days.

Last edited by PDL; 12-24-2018 at 11:30 PM. Reason: added the r in your

torashi · 12-24-2018, 07:41 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by boriscleto

Ken Rockwell is into submissive furries?

Lol, didn't see that one coming.

torashi · 12-24-2018, 08:16 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by PDL

Ken Rockwell is a proponent of turning up the saturation to 11. (Sorry Spinal Tap).

Just scroll down to his image of Yosemite, for further punishment look through his Yosemite/latest gallery. The colors are so fake they make you eyes bleed.

I would not trust him as far as I can spit - and I mostly drool these days.

Have you ever thought of photography in the same way as of painting? Those artistic choices could make more sense to you in that mindset, thinking of it as an expressive medium, rather than a documental one. Just look at Van Gogh, for example. There's a lot of speculation about him taking digitalis and it affecting the blue cones in his eyes around the time of his yellow period. The colors of his work are not accurate, and they are quite saturated, and that's precisely what makes him stand out and his work so demanded.
Art is about imagination, or if you're really pessimistic, about lies. Truth is boring. Boring and uncomfortable, that's why we let our imagination fly, be it with Harry Potter, or other fictional works.

**monochrome** · 12-24-2018, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by torashi

Have you ever thought of photography in the same way as of painting? Those artistic choices could make more sense to you in that mindset, thinking of it as an expressive medium, rather than a documental one. Just look at Van Gogh, for example. There's a lot of speculation about him taking digitalis and it affecting the blue cones in his eyes around the time of his yellow period. The colors of his work are not accurate, and they are quite saturated, and that's precisely what makes him stand out and his work so demanded.
Art is about imagination, or if you're really pessimistic, about lies. Truth is boring. Boring and uncomfortable, that's why we let our imagination fly, be it with Harry Potter, or other fictional works.

Like The Gone With The Wind.

Last edited by Racer X 69; 12-25-2018 at 01:44 PM.

**RobA_Oz** · 12-24-2018, 10:18 PM - **3 Likes**

Ah, Truth. We used to have a newspaper here called The Truth. It was anything but, although it had its adherents. The Soviet Union had theirs too (Pravda). We had an engineering lecturer who said that Truth was one or more facts overlaid with a series of biases and interpretations. He also said that a fact was something so small it could crawl between an ant’s gonads.

Back to Ken Rockwell’s dodgy assertion. Anyone with a smidgen of acoustic theory knows that (low) bass audio is omnidirectional, so attempting to set it into a sound stage with stereo is at best fraught and at worst an exercise in self-pleasuring.

SSGGeezer · 12-24-2018, 10:22 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by AsahiGlass

It doesn't really matter, because however the album is mixed is how it comes out. He's kinda right because if you want to hear it correctly you need 2 channels of full range.

And digital is a new thing, it's released in digital format but not recorded in digital format. It costs more money to record on tape, and yes some bands prefer tape.

There are plenty of documentaries on the subject.

I personally prefer full range speakers... subs are for bass, and I don't listen to music with 808 bass.

But hey whats your take?

Low frequency is non directional so if it is mixed at different levels, L/R that is just a choice made by engineers in studio using cheap monitors that probably don't respond below 80Hz. (ASt least that is how it used to Be. little Tandy/Radio Shack Shelf monitors for the mix,) since most folks did not have high end stereos. No matter to which side it is mixed, if you have a sub with a cut out, the sub will produce the majority of the bass heard in any recording.

PDL · 12-24-2018, 11:27 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by torashi

Have you ever thought of photography in the same way as of painting? Those artistic choices could make more sense to you in that mindset, thinking of it as an expressive medium, rather than a documental one. Just look at Van Gogh, for example. There's a lot of speculation about him taking digitalis and it affecting the blue cones in his eyes around the time of his yellow period. The colors of his work are not accurate, and they are quite saturated, and that's precisely what makes him stand out and his work so demanded.
Art is about imagination, or if you're really pessimistic, about lies. Truth is boring. Boring and uncomfortable, that's why we let our imagination fly, be it with Harry Potter, or other fiction.

There are fundamental differences between painting and just pushing contrast and saturation beyond the pale.

During Van Gogh's lifetime his work was not in demand even though during the last few years of his life he was recognized by the Avant-garde. His paintings came in demand after death and the death of his brother with his brothers widow working hard to promote his work. He was a artistic genius and I have had the privilege of seeing a wall of Van Goth's in Munich. Even Van Gogh did not make your eyes bleed like Ken Rockwell's images.

KR's images are not Art, just read his descriptions about camera performance and "technique". He supposedly all about color fidelity, resolution, speed (focus and frame rate), menu simplicity and lens choice. Add into this he absolutely hates Pentax. His reviews are reviled by large numbers of people while some people emulate him.

I will not go into your comments contained in the last sentence as that boarders on prohibited speech on this forum. I will say however, that I was in the Christchurch College great hall in Oxford this past summer (used in the Potter film's) and it is spectacular with or without cranking the saturation to 11. Over compensating for a lack of common sense does not make "Art".

Dartmoor Dave · 12-25-2018, 01:56 AM - **4 Likes**

I use a single Yamaha NS-SW300 subwoofer with my Linn Kans, but things like timpani and double basses still sound like they're in a defined place in the soundstage because they are mostly reproduced by the stereo pair. The sub only fills in that bottom octave that is omnidirectional anyway. And since I listen mostly to vinyl, I know that the bass will be mainly mono in the recording because of the simple limitations of what can be cut into the groove.

As for Ken Rockfish's notions about audio: I remember him heaping praise on the old Technics third-octave graphic equaliser somewhere on his site, so that pretty much says it all. And although I personally find his photos horribly oversaturated, if he's able to "support his growing family" with them then all the best to him.

**ChrisPlatt** · 12-25-2018, 06:40 AM

I was recently looking at small subwoofers for my living room and bedroom stereo systems.

Many models use a driver with dual voice coils and separate left and right channel inputs.
Since low frequencies are non-directional this allows a single sub to reproduce all low bass.

Chris

Wheatfield · 12-25-2018, 07:43 AM - **3 Likes**

I don’t care what this thread is about. I’d just like to comment that the title of this thread is the best ever.

Unregistered User · 12-25-2018, 07:47 AM - **1 Like**

One reason for the rise of single sub-woofers (besides only having one speaker) is that it was cheaper to build separate amps for high and low frequencies. The bass amp is generally the cheapest design that will give the needed power, while the high amps don't need massive filtering and wattage. Nowadays, with the advent of class-h and other cheap quality amplifiers, this isn't so important anymore.

Ken is pretty knowledgeable about audio, what he says makes sense to me for the ultimate in realistic sound reproduction but his advice is over-kill for most listeners, especially with modern pop music.

SSGGeezer · 12-25-2018, 08:23 AM

He was just pimping for sites that sell expensive gear, just like his photo reviews.

12-24-2018, 12:37 PM - 1 Like	#1
slartibartfast01 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,931	Ken Rockwell on Subwoofers Reassuring to see Ken Rockwell knows as much about audio as he does about photography. https://kenrockwell.com/audio/stereo-subwoofers.htm Most articles I have seen written by professional sound engineers say low bass is still mixed to centre but Ken reckons it has been mixed in stereo since 1982.

12-24-2018, 08:16 PM - 1 Like	#6
torashi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Medellín Posts: 1,322	Originally posted by PDL Ken Rockwell is a proponent of turning up the saturation to 11. (Sorry Spinal Tap). Just scroll down to his image of Yosemite, for further punishment look through his Yosemite/latest gallery. The colors are so fake they make you eyes bleed. I would not trust him as far as I can spit - and I mostly drool these days. Have you ever thought of photography in the same way as of painting? Those artistic choices could make more sense to you in that mindset, thinking of it as an expressive medium, rather than a documental one. Just look at Van Gogh, for example. There's a lot of speculation about him taking digitalis and it affecting the blue cones in his eyes around the time of his yellow period. The colors of his work are not accurate, and they are quite saturated, and that's precisely what makes him stand out and his work so demanded. Art is about imagination, or if you're really pessimistic, about lies. Truth is boring. Boring and uncomfortable, that's why we let our imagination fly, be it with Harry Potter, or other fictional works. Last edited by Racer X 69; 12-25-2018 at 01:32 PM.

12-24-2018, 11:27 PM - 2 Likes	#10
PDL Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: PNW USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,128	Originally posted by torashi Have you ever thought of photography in the same way as of painting? Those artistic choices could make more sense to you in that mindset, thinking of it as an expressive medium, rather than a documental one. Just look at Van Gogh, for example. There's a lot of speculation about him taking digitalis and it affecting the blue cones in his eyes around the time of his yellow period. The colors of his work are not accurate, and they are quite saturated, and that's precisely what makes him stand out and his work so demanded. Art is about imagination, or if you're really pessimistic, about lies. Truth is boring. Boring and uncomfortable, that's why we let our imagination fly, be it with Harry Potter, or other fiction. There are fundamental differences between painting and just pushing contrast and saturation beyond the pale. During Van Gogh's lifetime his work was not in demand even though during the last few years of his life he was recognized by the Avant-garde. His paintings came in demand after death and the death of his brother with his brothers widow working hard to promote his work. He was a artistic genius and I have had the privilege of seeing a wall of Van Goth's in Munich. Even Van Gogh did not make your eyes bleed like Ken Rockwell's images. KR's images are not Art, just read his descriptions about camera performance and "technique". He supposedly all about color fidelity, resolution, speed (focus and frame rate), menu simplicity and lens choice. Add into this he absolutely hates Pentax. His reviews are reviled by large numbers of people while some people emulate him. I will not go into your comments contained in the last sentence as that boarders on prohibited speech on this forum. I will say however, that I was in the Christchurch College great hall in Oxford this past summer (used in the Potter film's) and it is spectacular with or without cranking the saturation to 11. Over compensating for a lack of common sense does not make "Art". Last edited by Ash; 12-25-2018 at 06:32 PM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Ken Rockwell on lens sharpness	Theov39	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	44	04-29-2021 01:38 AM
Ken Rockwell is Wrong	atlnq9	Pentax Medium Format	153	02-24-2014 09:44 AM
Ken Rockwell The film evangelist	Lambda_drive	Photographic Industry and Professionals	42	12-04-2011 01:24 PM
Taking on Ken Rockwell (another animation)	eddie1960	General Talk	17	07-13-2011 06:46 PM
Ken Rockwell's latest... does it make sense?	rpriedhorsky	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	38	05-31-2009 10:49 PM

12-24-2018, 03:29 PM	#2
AsahiGlass Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Florida WPB Posts: 54	It doesn't really matter, because however the album is mixed is how it comes out. He's kinda right because if you want to hear it correctly you need 2 channels of full range. And digital is a new thing, it's released in digital format but not recorded in digital format. It costs more money to record on tape, and yes some bands prefer tape. There are plenty of documentaries on the subject. I personally prefer full range speakers... subs are for bass, and I don't listen to music with 808 bass. But hey whats your take?

12-24-2018, 03:33 PM - 1 Like	#3
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,475	Ken Rockwell is into submissive furries?

12-24-2018, 07:05 PM - 2 Likes	#4
PDL Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: PNW USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,128	Ken Rockwell is a proponent of turning up the saturation to 11. (Sorry Spinal Tap). Just scroll down to his image of Yosemite, for further punishment look through his Yosemite/latest gallery. The colors are so fake they make your eyes bleed. I would not trust him as far as I can spit - and I mostly drool these days. Last edited by PDL; 12-24-2018 at 11:30 PM. Reason: added the r in your

12-24-2018, 07:41 PM - 1 Like	#5
torashi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Medellín Posts: 1,322	Originally posted by boriscleto Ken Rockwell is into submissive furries? Lol, didn't see that one coming.

12-24-2018, 09:41 PM	#7
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by torashi Have you ever thought of photography in the same way as of painting? Those artistic choices could make more sense to you in that mindset, thinking of it as an expressive medium, rather than a documental one. Just look at Van Gogh, for example. There's a lot of speculation about him taking digitalis and it affecting the blue cones in his eyes around the time of his yellow period. The colors of his work are not accurate, and they are quite saturated, and that's precisely what makes him stand out and his work so demanded. Art is about imagination, or if you're really pessimistic, about lies. Truth is boring. Boring and uncomfortable, that's why we let our imagination fly, be it with Harry Potter, or other fictional works. Like The Gone With The Wind. Last edited by Racer X 69; 12-25-2018 at 01:44 PM.

12-24-2018, 10:18 PM - 3 Likes	#8
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,200	Ah, Truth. We used to have a newspaper here called The Truth. It was anything but, although it had its adherents. The Soviet Union had theirs too (Pravda). We had an engineering lecturer who said that Truth was one or more facts overlaid with a series of biases and interpretations. He also said that a fact was something so small it could crawl between an ant’s gonads. Back to Ken Rockwell’s dodgy assertion. Anyone with a smidgen of acoustic theory knows that (low) bass audio is omnidirectional, so attempting to set it into a sound stage with stereo is at best fraught and at worst an exercise in self-pleasuring.

12-24-2018, 10:22 PM - 1 Like	#9
SSGGeezer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Indiana, U.S. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,845	Originally posted by AsahiGlass It doesn't really matter, because however the album is mixed is how it comes out. He's kinda right because if you want to hear it correctly you need 2 channels of full range. And digital is a new thing, it's released in digital format but not recorded in digital format. It costs more money to record on tape, and yes some bands prefer tape. There are plenty of documentaries on the subject. I personally prefer full range speakers... subs are for bass, and I don't listen to music with 808 bass. But hey whats your take? Low frequency is non directional so if it is mixed at different levels, L/R that is just a choice made by engineers in studio using cheap monitors that probably don't respond below 80Hz. (ASt least that is how it used to Be. little Tandy/Radio Shack Shelf monitors for the mix,) since most folks did not have high end stereos. No matter to which side it is mixed, if you have a sub with a cut out, the sub will produce the majority of the bass heard in any recording.

12-25-2018, 01:56 AM - 4 Likes	#11
Dartmoor Dave Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Dartmoor, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,888	I use a single Yamaha NS-SW300 subwoofer with my Linn Kans, but things like timpani and double basses still sound like they're in a defined place in the soundstage because they are mostly reproduced by the stereo pair. The sub only fills in that bottom octave that is omnidirectional anyway. And since I listen mostly to vinyl, I know that the bass will be mainly mono in the recording because of the simple limitations of what can be cut into the groove. As for Ken Rockfish's notions about audio: I remember him heaping praise on the old Technics third-octave graphic equaliser somewhere on his site, so that pretty much says it all. And although I personally find his photos horribly oversaturated, if he's able to "support his growing family" with them then all the best to him.

12-25-2018, 06:40 AM	#12
ChrisPlatt Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Rockaway Beach NYC Posts: 7,696	I was recently looking at small subwoofers for my living room and bedroom stereo systems. Many models use a driver with dual voice coils and separate left and right channel inputs. Since low frequencies are non-directional this allows a single sub to reproduce all low bass. Chris

12-25-2018, 07:43 AM - 3 Likes	#13
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,986	I don’t care what this thread is about. I’d just like to comment that the title of this thread is the best ever.

12-25-2018, 07:47 AM - 1 Like	#14
Unregistered User Guest	One reason for the rise of single sub-woofers (besides only having one speaker) is that it was cheaper to build separate amps for high and low frequencies. The bass amp is generally the cheapest design that will give the needed power, while the high amps don't need massive filtering and wattage. Nowadays, with the advent of class-h and other cheap quality amplifiers, this isn't so important anymore. Ken is pretty knowledgeable about audio, what he says makes sense to me for the ultimate in realistic sound reproduction but his advice is over-kill for most listeners, especially with modern pop music.

12-25-2018, 08:23 AM	#15
SSGGeezer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Indiana, U.S. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,845	He was just pimping for sites that sell expensive gear, just like his photo reviews.