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01-19-2019, 11:58 AM   #16
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Eddie, the first thing you, or anyone who feels they are not getting what they paid for and run into difficulty pursuing the usual customer service route should do is send Jeff Bezos an e-mail directly. He reportedly still reads every message sent to him, and in the instance of unresolved complaints from dissatisfied customers he forwards the message to the Amazon Minions he feels best empowered to correct the issue.

Contact him here: jeff@amazon.com

01-19-2019, 01:45 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
If a local hardware store misadvertised an item and you went in to get it and they said "I'm sorry, sir, the wheelbarrow we advertised as 15 dollars really should have been 75 dollars," would you accept their explanation or would you try to get them to give you a deal they couldn't afford to give?
Generally, consumers don't know whether an item has been misadvertised. One might be guided by the adage If it seems too good to be true, then it probably is. But really, is it up to potential customers to guess and be skeptical, especially of a large outfit like Amazon, which presumably has ample resources to ensure their offers are correct?

I think that in the hardware store analogy, I would probably agree with the store that they made an honest error. However, I think that the present case has a distinction. In the hardware store analogy, wouldn't it be more like: A local hardware store advertises an item at an attractive price. Before going to the store, the customer phones them and asks to confirm the advertised price, which they do. At the store a short time later, the customer is then informed, sorry, that's not the price. Not only did the store advertise the price, they confirmed it in the phone call.

I looked at the listing on Amazon. The only indication of a 'two pack' is the "2 pack" symbol with the encouraging little Amazon smiley swirl. The image shows two items -- the battery pack and a second item that could be its case or a cased second unit. No text appears to suggest two battery units. However, that "2 pack" symbol is prominent but the overall listing is confusing. I think that the OP's first contact through web-chat served to remove any doubt or confusion -- yes, it's a two-pack. I don't think "2 pack" could mean anything other than two battery units.

Last edited by c.a.m; 01-19-2019 at 06:18 PM. Reason: clarification
01-19-2019, 02:25 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by c.a.m Quote
Generally, consumers don't know whether an item has been misadvertised. One might be guided by the adage If it seems too good to be true, then it probably is. But really, is it up to potential customers to guess and be skeptical, especially of a large outfit like Amazon, which presumably has ample resources to ensure their offers are correct?

I think that in the hardware store analogy, I would probably agree with the store that they made an honest error. However, I think that the present case has a distinction. In the hardware store analogy, wouldn't it be more like: A local hardware store advertises an item at an attractive price. Before going to the store, the customer phones them and asks to confirm the advertised price, which they do. At the store a short time later, the customer is then informed, sorry, that's not the price. Not only did the store advertise the price, they confirmed it in the phone call.

I looked at the listing on Amazon. The only indication of a 'two pack' is the "2 pack" symbol with the encouraging little Amazon smiley swirl. The image shows one item -- the battery pack -- and a second item that could be its case or a cased second unit. No text appears to suggest two units. However, that "2 pack" symbol is prominent but the overall listing is confusing. I think that the OP's first contact through web-chat served to remove any doubt or confusion -- yes, it's a two-pack. I don't think "2 pack" could mean anything other than two battery units.
Clearly the person he spoke with identified it as a single item, after the fact. The first person he contacted was the person in error. Should that person lose his job or get reprimanded over this? I suppose so. And maybe that is the answer to human error.

I understand that there is a tendency to believe conspiracy theories about big companies, but I just think that they are staffed by the same, somewhat incompetent employees as other businesses. When there are mistakes made, I usually believe that someone, like myself, has made an error and accept that that's what happens in human interactions. To err is human, even in the case of Amazon.

We all need a bit of forgiveness and should be willing to grant it to others as well.
01-19-2019, 02:47 PM - 1 Like   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I didn't say you were rude, but I do think we should treat others, even big companies as we wish to be treated. Good customer service in this case, assuming an honest mistake in pricing would be either a full refund of the product with Amazon paying for the return shipping or you keeping the product and accepting an apology from them.

I do order from Amazon and if I receive a defective product or something that isn't as advertised, I will return it for a full refund and that feels like the appropriate "penalty" from Amazon's standpoint.
I just demand that they escalate the issue. When they say "I can only do this," I demand that they escalate until they do. Then the supervisor gets my wrath if he or she does not step up.

I am not mean unless I feel that I am getting ripped off, but since I have done this job for a credit card/banking corporation I know about irate customers so I don't have sympathy for them, empathy, yes, sympathy, nope! Not one Iota of sympathy. Saved me lots dealing with the idiots who work for Sirius/XM on more than one occasion. Always escalate if you need a native speaker of your preferred language also. My hearing is not good enough to parse strong accents transmitted over cheapo headsets and narrow bandwidth VOIP lines.

---------- Post added 01-19-19 at 16:49 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
We all need a bit of forgiveness and should be willing to grant it to others as well.
Only if the company is willing to make the mistake right. I know lots of business people who make mistakes right, even if they aren't multi-million dollar companies. It is called good customer service.

01-19-2019, 02:51 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Clearly the person he spoke with identified it as a single item, after the fact. The first person he contacted was the person in error. Should that person lose his job or get reprimanded over this?
If I am understanding the sequence correctly, the OP had three interactions with Amazon: the first through the online listing for the product; the second through his first web chat; and the third through the follow-up web chat after the product was received. It seems that the agent in the second web chat contradicted the first. However, I don't think I can tell who was correct and who was in error -- the first agent or the second. Even now, it is not obvious whether Amazon intended originally to offer two units or one.

I'm not sure that this is a matter of getting fired or reprimanded; rather, it points to a flaw in Amazon's procedures concerning customer enquiries about products. I am surprised that the two agents gave different accounts of the product in question. Furthermore, that pesky "2 pack" symbol is still there in the listing today; Amazon hasn't fixed the confusion even though there was an extended chat with an unhappy customer suggesting that the online listing might be in need of correction.


QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
To err is human, even in the case of Amazon.
Totally agree. In this case, it seems to me that several errors have been made: the confusing listing; the contradiction between the two agents; and the lack of follow-up to clarify the product's listing. To err is corporate?

I should say that I've had great service from Amazon (.ca) over a number of years, and have always been fully satisfied and have had a couple of issues resolved promptly. I guess I'm mostly disappointed with Amazon's 'corporate' response to the OP rather than the action or inaction by the individual Amazon agents.

Last edited by c.a.m; 01-19-2019 at 03:00 PM.
01-19-2019, 03:00 PM - 1 Like   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by c.a.m Quote
If I am understanding the sequence correctly, the OP had three interactions with Amazon: the first through the online listing for the product; the second through his first web chat; and the third through the follow-up web chat after the product was received. It seems that the agent in the second web chat contradicted the first. However, I don't think I can tell who was correct and who was in error -- the first agent or the second. Even now, it is not obvious whether Amazon intended originally to offer two units or one.

I'm not sure that this is a matter of getting fired or reprimanded; rather, it points to a flaw in Amazon's procedures concerning customer enquiries about products. I am surprised that the two agents gave different accounts of the product in question. Furthermore, that pesky "2 pack" symbol is still there in the listing today; Amazon hasn't fixed the confusion even though there was an extended chat with an unhappy customer suggesting that the online listing might be in need of correction.




Totally agree. In this case, it seems to me that several errors have been made: the confusing listing; the contradiction between the two agents; and the lack of follow-up to clarify the product's listing.

I should say that I've had great service from Amazon (.ca) over a number of years, and have always been fully satisfied and have had a couple of issues resolved promptly. I guess I'm mostly disappointed with Amazon's 'corporate' response to the OP rather than the action or inaction by the individual Amazon agents.
What is the appropriate remedy for such an error, regardless of how it happened? A full refund with free return shipping or a 15 dollar gift certificate? That's what was offered and it wasn't good enough. "You can do better than that!" I just hate the feeling that I get from this interaction that we are owed something more than a full refund based on someone's error. It doesn't really matter whose error it was, the appropriate remedy is to say that you will take the goods back and give a full refund. There is no pain and suffering here that needs to be compensated by someone else, even by a billion dollar company.

Anyway, I've probably said too much...

Edited to change 'and' to 'or.'

Last edited by Rondec; 01-20-2019 at 04:36 AM.
01-19-2019, 03:30 PM - 1 Like   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Did you read the part where I clarified before purchasing that it was indeed a 2-pack and they confirmed it was?

Yes, I did, but like in the case of my Domke bag selling your battery pack as a two-pack makes no sense to me.

Surely you don't believe everything barely-trained customer service agents tell you.
Amazon probably lists more products than anyone, so IMO there's more probability
of erroneous information. That is why I posted the question to other customers.

And if you are just trying to take advantage of what appears to me to be an obvious listing error
you are what a store owner I once worked for - my first job - would call a chiseler.

Chris
01-19-2019, 03:49 PM - 1 Like   #23
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You can say what you like about Amazon or the OP, but the “2-pack” symbol is still on the advertisement, two days later. This isn’t a family corner store, relying on a grandkid to update their sales promotion material every second week.

01-19-2019, 04:19 PM - 1 Like   #24
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A quick search on Amazon shows many goods that are offered clearly and unambiguously as "2 packs" -- e.g., bed pillows, printer toner cartridges, swimming goggles, power toothbrushes, 2-way radios, entry door latches, T-shirts, and so on. Hard to say which of these make sense to everyone as a twin pack -- I can use only one power toothbrush, for example, but if the price is good, I might put the second one away as a spare for future use. Somebody else might conclude, gee, why would I buy two of those?

QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisPlatt Quote
Surely you don't believe everything barely-trained customer service agents tell you.
I think this is a crux -- how would we know whether a particular CSR should be believed? And which ones should we believe and trust? How would we know how well a particular agent has been trained or whether they're competent? I would suggest that employee competency is a corporate issue, not one for customers to try to figure out while they're considering their purchases.

When a CSR doesn't tell us what we think is the right answer or proper course of action for us, there's a practice coined HUCA -- hang up and call again, and try another agent. In the case here, however, the first web chat provided a positive answer -- yes, it's a 2-pack. That's all the OP needed to hear to confirm the goods on offer. I wouldn't expect the OP to have kept trying different agents until he heard no, it's a single item.

Regardless, the OP and Amazon arrived at a satisfactory resolution. Now Amazon needs to remove that troublesome "2 pack" symbol...
01-19-2019, 05:25 PM   #25
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In cases like this Amazon's customer Q&A feature can be indispensible.
In several cases I opted not to buy a product based on customer answers.
Within hours I received several replies from previous buyers to questions I asked.

Chris

Last edited by ChrisPlatt; 01-19-2019 at 05:33 PM.
01-19-2019, 05:37 PM - 2 Likes   #26
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The ad says 2 pack.

This is 2 pack:





So if the ad says 2 pack, I confirm with the vendor prior to the purchase that is what I get, and then pay the money, the vendor is obliged to fulfill the order.

Last edited by Racer X 69; 01-19-2019 at 05:52 PM.
01-19-2019, 06:00 PM - 1 Like   #27
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Alright folks, good luck with your lawsuit against Amazon for false advertising.
Maybe Jacoby & Meyers will take on the case.

Imagine if we held government officials that accountable?

Chris
01-19-2019, 11:06 PM - 2 Likes   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by c.a.m Quote
Generally, consumers don't know whether an item has been misadvertised. One might be guided by the adage If it seems too good to be true, then it probably is. But really, is it up to potential customers to guess and be skeptical, especially of a large outfit like Amazon, which presumably has ample resources to ensure their offers are correct?

I think that in the hardware store analogy, I would probably agree with the store that they made an honest error. However, I think that the present case has a distinction. In the hardware store analogy, wouldn't it be more like: A local hardware store advertises an item at an attractive price. Before going to the store, the customer phones them and asks to confirm the advertised price, which they do. At the store a short time later, the customer is then informed, sorry, that's not the price. Not only did the store advertise the price, they confirmed it in the phone call.

I looked at the listing on Amazon. The only indication of a 'two pack' is the "2 pack" symbol with the encouraging little Amazon smiley swirl. The image shows two items -- the battery pack and a second item that could be its case or a cased second unit. No text appears to suggest two battery units. However, that "2 pack" symbol is prominent but the overall listing is confusing. I think that the OP's first contact through web-chat served to remove any doubt or confusion -- yes, it's a two-pack. I don't think "2 pack" could mean anything other than two battery units.
Yup.

I think the take away message is in cases of confusion and perhaps slight disbelief that this deal may be real, contacting Amazon's web chat and getting through to Level 1 personnel is pointless. Two level 1 people at Amazon agreed with me, even after a 'lemme check' type and got back to me confirming it's a 2-pack. Only getting transferred to level 2 or some other department with more info did I actually get the 'um... yeh... this is a mistake, it's not a 2-pack'.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Clearly the person he spoke with identified it as a single item, after the fact. The first person he contacted was the person in error. Should that person lose his job or get reprimanded over this? I suppose so. And maybe that is the answer to human error.

I understand that there is a tendency to believe conspiracy theories about big companies, but I just think that they are staffed by the same, somewhat incompetent employees as other businesses. When there are mistakes made, I usually believe that someone, like myself, has made an error and accept that that's what happens in human interactions. To err is human, even in the case of Amazon.

We all need a bit of forgiveness and should be willing to grant it to others as well.
Clearly the THIRD person I spoke to identified it as a single item... Two people (from 'level 1' chat) agreed and confirmed this was a 2-pack, only Jeff could see it wasn't. Or... you know what... it just IS a 2-pack man... there were 3 left in stock lmao, they just didn't want to send me the other unit lol.

I do believe it's human error, it just sucks when you actually have the foresight to check before hand, get it in writing and they still won't come through properly on the deal... for what... $50? This really is $50 vs customer satisfaction from a billion dollar company, let's not forget that fact. Pretty sure they can handle this loss from a mistake they made...


QuoteOriginally posted by SSGGeezer Quote
I just demand that they escalate the issue. When they say "I can only do this," I demand that they escalate until they do. Then the supervisor gets my wrath if he or she does not step up.

I am not mean unless I feel that I am getting ripped off, but since I have done this job for a credit card/banking corporation I know about irate customers so I don't have sympathy for them, empathy, yes, sympathy, nope! Not one Iota of sympathy. Saved me lots dealing with the idiots who work for Sirius/XM on more than one occasion. Always escalate if you need a native speaker of your preferred language also. My hearing is not good enough to parse strong accents transmitted over cheapo headsets and narrow bandwidth VOIP lines.

---------- Post added 01-19-19 at 16:49 ----------



Only if the company is willing to make the mistake right. I know lots of business people who make mistakes right, even if they aren't multi-million dollar companies. It is called good customer service.
Yep, that was my stance, escalate and be firm and unwilling to budge. Believe me they want my chat window closed, he wants it closed so he can move on. By being semi difficult and immovable you place yourself in a better position for a better deal.

QuoteOriginally posted by c.a.m Quote
If I am understanding the sequence correctly, the OP had three interactions with Amazon: the first through the online listing for the product; the second through his first web chat; and the third through the follow-up web chat after the product was received. It seems that the agent in the second web chat contradicted the first. However, I don't think I can tell who was correct and who was in error -- the first agent or the second. Even now, it is not obvious whether Amazon intended originally to offer two units or one.

I'm not sure that this is a matter of getting fired or reprimanded; rather, it points to a flaw in Amazon's procedures concerning customer enquiries about products. I am surprised that the two agents gave different accounts of the product in question. Furthermore, that pesky "2 pack" symbol is still there in the listing today; Amazon hasn't fixed the confusion even though there was an extended chat with an unhappy customer suggesting that the online listing might be in need of correction.




Totally agree. In this case, it seems to me that several errors have been made: the confusing listing; the contradiction between the two agents; and the lack of follow-up to clarify the product's listing. To err is corporate?

I should say that I've had great service from Amazon (.ca) over a number of years, and have always been fully satisfied and have had a couple of issues resolved promptly. I guess I'm mostly disappointed with Amazon's 'corporate' response to the OP rather than the action or inaction by the individual Amazon agents.
That is correct. Three interactions, one before the purchase, one with Alex and one with Jeff. Both Alex and the other level 1 person thought it was a 2-pack, only Jeff saw differently. Cool system u got there Amazon...

It may once have been a 2-pack deal and no more

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
What is the appropriate remedy for such an error, regardless of how it happened? A full refund with free return shipping and a 15 dollar gift certificate? That's what was offered and it wasn't good enough. "You can do better than that!" I just hate the feeling that I get from this interaction that we are owed something more than a full refund based on someone's error. It doesn't really matter whose error it was, the appropriate remedy is to say that you will take the goods back and give a full refund. There is no pain and suffering here that needs to be compensated by someone else, even by a billion dollar company.

Anyway, I've probably said too much...
That wasn't what was on offer, it was a full refund or a $15 credit. Besides... I don't want a refund... I actually bought the thing I want, a refund just makes me have to buy it again elsewhere. This is a good example of how a refund is not always the best outcome for the consumer, they're still left disgruntled, not only because the deal they were promised and confirmed before hand is was not upheld, but they then still need to source that thing all over again...

Look.. I get it, buy one get one free, if it was something of the value of $5000 I can understand a little more there stance and unwillingness to resolve it quite so easily... but c'mon man... it's a $50 mistake (less because obviously they clear a bit of a profit from the sale of that $50 product), this from a billion dollar company, that's what leaves bad taste in the mouth, the word 'greed' comes to mind...

QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisPlatt Quote
Yes, I did, but like in the case of my Domke bag selling your battery pack as a two-pack makes no sense to me.

Surely you don't believe everything barely-trained customer service agents tell you.
Amazon probably lists more products than anyone, so IMO there's more probability
of erroneous information. That is why I posted the question to other customers.

And if you are just trying to take advantage of what appears to me to be an obvious listing error
you are what a store owner I once worked for - my first job - would call a chiseler.

Chris
Why? People use more than one Cactus RF60x units... Perhaps also this is not a hugely popular item, they had stock and just wanted it shifted. 2-pack seemed plausible deal, but I did want to check also before hand (because I'm that kinda cautious guy whose often left chasing up people who can't do their jobs properly or has so little faith in humanity lol).

I do believe, when I live chat, ask the person to check, and they tell me to hold a sec whilst the check, and then 1min passes and they come back and tell you that indeed it is a 2-pack on offer. Heh.

I do often ask customers. I use B&H and they have a great Q&A section, it's helped me out a number of times. The only issue is you can sometimes wait a week or two before getting the answer to your question, which doesn't help much if said item is on a sale with a quick expiry date...

QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
You can say what you like about Amazon or the OP, but the “2-pack” symbol is still on the advertisement, two days later. This isn’t a family corner store, relying on a grandkid to update their sales promotion material every second week.
Yup... Amazon fail.

QuoteOriginally posted by c.a.m Quote
A quick search on Amazon shows many goods that are offered clearly and unambiguously as "2 packs" -- e.g., bed pillows, printer toner cartridges, swimming goggles, power toothbrushes, 2-way radios, entry door latches, T-shirts, and so on. Hard to say which of these make sense to everyone as a twin pack -- I can use only one power toothbrush, for example, but if the price is good, I might put the second one away as a spare for future use. Somebody else might conclude, gee, why would I buy two of those?



I think this is a crux -- how would we know whether a particular CSR should be believed? And which ones should we believe and trust? How would we know how well a particular agent has been trained or whether they're competent? I would suggest that employee competency is a corporate issue, not one for customers to try to figure out while they're considering their purchases.

When a CSR doesn't tell us what we think is the right answer or proper course of action for us, there's a practice coined HUCA -- hang up and call again, and try another agent. In the case here, however, the first web chat provided a positive answer -- yes, it's a 2-pack. That's all the OP needed to hear to confirm the goods on offer. I wouldn't expect the OP to have kept trying different agents until he heard no, it's a single item.

Regardless, the OP and Amazon arrived at a satisfactory resolution. Now Amazon needs to remove that troublesome "2 pack" symbol...
Yep, I've done that before, typically when the call agent I get gives me an unsatisfactory response, you hang up and try again for a better outcome hehe.

QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisPlatt Quote
In cases like this Amazon's customer Q&A feature can be indispensible.
In several cases I opted not to buy a product based on customer answers.
Within hours I received several replies from previous buyers to questions I asked.

Chris
Cool if you got that quick a response. I agree the Q&A is helpful at times, but in this case not so much. For all we know the 2-pack was a deal now expired, or someone only got 1, complained and actually got another (different outcome etc). Typically Q&A are useful for product info, not whether this deal or that is legit. Call me crazy but I kind expect when you chat or call the store for them to actually hand over that information accurately... :/
01-20-2019, 07:11 AM - 1 Like   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Look.. I get it, buy one get one free, if it was something of the value of $5000 I can understand a little more there stance and unwillingness to resolve it quite so easily... but c'mon man... it's a $50 mistake (less because obviously they clear a bit of a profit from the sale of that $50 product), this from a billion dollar company, that's what leaves bad taste in the mouth, the word 'greed' comes to mind...
What is your price threshold where a store should honour an error? Does it differ for Amazon and a small, independent business?

In Canada, we have a "Scanning Code of Practice" that brick and mortar stores can voluntarily adopt. If an item scans higher at the checkout than its ticketed price, you get the item free or $10 off, whichever is lower. It's nice to have a set amount for resolutions in cases like this.
01-20-2019, 09:31 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
What is your price threshold where a store should honour an error? Does it differ for Amazon and a small, independent business?

In Canada, we have a "Scanning Code of Practice" that brick and mortar stores can voluntarily adopt. If an item scans higher at the checkout than its ticketed price, you get the item free or $10 off, whichever is lower. It's nice to have a set amount for resolutions in cases like this.
When grocery stores went to the UPC codes and scanners, almost all of them offered a similar guarantee because folks were very skeptical about the bar codes when they first gained widespread use. This was the case when I lived in Southern California.

---------- Post added 01-20-19 at 11:35 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Believe me they want my chat window closed, he wants it closed so he can move on. By being semi difficult and immovable you place yourself in a better position for a better deal.
He certainly does since they can get fired for not meeting handle time requirements. That is where Amazon was screwing the rep by forcing him to keep trying the same crap over and over again before they would allow him to escalate the call/chat. I was often borderline since I was actually trying to help and not just sell my customers add ons they did not need.
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