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03-02-2019, 06:39 PM   #16
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For the Mac it sometimes depends on the model. The previous generation of MacBook Pros had a wonky keyboard that Apple refused to fix.

My 2013 MacBook Pro has been absolutely reliable, with its OS updates (painless) it works better than when it was new. I'm not on the latest OS because that would kill my CS4 Photoshop (32 bit to 64 bit upgrade) I'll deal with that when I do get a new computer.

I've still got a PC (for my big flatbed scanner) from 2007 and it still works OK but I can't use it on the internet because it is XP, no security updates available.

03-02-2019, 09:25 PM - 2 Likes   #17
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You might as well be asking, "How long is a piece of string?"

As others have stated, Windows vs Mac is essentially personal preference, BUT...

The but is hardware quality. With a PC, you have machines manufactured with varying quality even though they are all running the same operating system, Windows. It is important that you do your due diligence to assure you choose quality hardware. Windows is Windows. With Apple, the hardware quality is first rate.

Another consideration you might want to think about is the Apple ecosystem. For me, that is a large part of the equation. I own a MacBook, an iMac, an iPad and two iPhones. Everything works in sync. Save a file here, open it there. Add it to my to-do list on the iPad, read it on the phone or computer. Everything is totally seamless.

Good luck with your purchase!
03-02-2019, 10:51 PM - 1 Like   #18
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I just remembered one little thing. When I upgraded my machine in 2017 I seriously considered and researched an iMac. With similar technical spec’s my build sheet was about 30% more expensive, but what really turned me back to another Windows PC was really pretty silly. The SD card slot - the ONLY SD card slot - is on the back of the monitor, right next to the single internet jack, the three USB slots and the two Thunderbolt slots (OK - those are a feature you don’t get on a PC). My PC has at least twice as many connection options, front and back, and I use them.

But really, as often as I plug a card into the front of my PC I thought about what a pain it would be to fiddle around feeling for the card slot on the back of the monitor and eventually tipping the monitor over to get it in. And also doing that every time I wanted to connect a cable, like to Sync my phone and tablet.. What on earth were they thinking?

That actually is what made me decide against the Apple.
03-03-2019, 03:47 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
My 1994 Power Mac 6100 was overclocked, making it one of the fastest PCs on the planet at the time, and it ran for 17 years until 2001. Of course near the end it was pretty much a word processor, although it did run Photoshop 2.0 if you had time. Ah the good old days.
Just to clarify, you ran it till 2011, right? (My math skills aren't great, but 2001 less 1994 only makes 7 ).

As far as the overall question, I think they both make good computers and there are not so good PCs out there. I run a Windows based computer just because I always have. I think there is a lot more variation there based on who you buy from and what specs you put into it. It works fine and has for the last five or six years.

I think Apple's model does make sure things are a bit more seamless and folks who like Apple certainly are pretty excited by their products -- more so than PC users. To me, it is a tool and mine works for what I want and so that's fine.

03-03-2019, 06:24 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by AggieDad Quote
Windows is Windows. With Apple, the hardware quality is first rate.
My Windows has first rate quality hardware because it's not priority dedicated to Apple only, hardware and it is first rate because I wouldn't put anything else in my builds. To be fair, Apple now uses, in their desktops, Intel motherboards so their builds are made with the same type of components I use, only they're still made for Apple. Used to be anything Apple would only work in Apple. You had to buy a harddrive that could be formatted for Apple, you couldn't buy any old harddrive like you could for windows. I know, my biggest and latest and greatest (at the time, PowerPC 1110 Mac) was like that, ran at a whole 66mHz, top 72MB ram, 512MB hdd) I had to buy a harddrive that fit for Apple. Well, except for RAM, you could still buy RAM for a PC that would work in Apple too. I know cause that's what I bought to update the RAM in that PowerPC. Btw, I sold that top of line PowerPC to the college I was attending at the time, (1995) for a whole $499.95 to buy a PC. Because ICQ would not work properly on it.
03-03-2019, 06:29 AM - 2 Likes   #21
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The average Mac is supported by Apple for 10 years. I have a 27Ē iMac that is 6 years old and performs like the day I got it. I have had decked out Dell and HP machines in the past that needed to be cycled out after 4 years. The initial Apple price may seen a little higher but spreading out the cost over the life of the machine results in a lower annual cost. The integration with my iPad, iPhone and iMac is seamless. Itís a better ecosystem and more robust OS.
03-03-2019, 06:40 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Just to clarify, you ran it till 2011, right? (My math skills aren't great, but 2001 less 1994 only makes 7 ).
Ya right, and I didn't have it the last two years, I gave it to a student who needed it for school, along with an old typewriter with a printer interface.
03-03-2019, 06:55 AM - 1 Like   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I just remembered one little thing. When I upgraded my machine in 2017 I seriously considered and researched an iMac. With similar technical specís my build sheet was about 30% more expensive, but what really turned me back to another Windows PC was really pretty silly. The SD card slot - the ONLY SD card slot - is on the back of the monitor, right next to the single internet jack, the three USB slots and the two Thunderbolt slots (OK - those are a feature you donít get on a PC). My PC has at least twice as many connection options, front and back, and I use them.

But really, as often as I plug a card into the front of my PC I thought about what a pain it would be to fiddle around feeling for the card slot on the back of the monitor and eventually tipping the monitor over to get it in. And also doing that every time I wanted to connect a cable, like to Sync my phone and tablet.. What on earth were they thinking?

That actually is what made me decide against the Apple.
Every iMac should have counter to track how often users insert a card into these inconvenient slots. Once per year, all devices 'phone home' to Apple to get a total count across all users. Everyone who approved this design is then locked in a room and has to perform the same amount of card insertions and removals before they are set free.

Designers should be more aware of the little annoyances they inflict upon large numbers of users (this goes for all brands).

03-03-2019, 07:07 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
Every iMac should have counter to track how often users insert a card into these inconvenient slots. Once per year, all devices 'phone home' to Apple to get a total count across all users. Everyone who approved this design is then locked in a room and has to perform the same amount of card insertions and removals before they are set free.

Designers should be more aware of the little annoyances they inflict upon large numbers of users (this goes for all brands).
It's a little annoying, the back card slots, but you're talking about an extra 3 seconds. Its not like you can bank them and add an extra hour to your life somewhere. But you'd hate my new MacBook Pro. Two IO ports, USB 3c and I already have $100 worth of dongles one that gives me a legacy USB port, HDMI port and passthrough, and one that is for my card reader. Apple engineers always seem to be looking for ways to make more money for their dealers, as they really hurt them with their pricing. Those two dongles made the dealer more money than the computer did. The only ting that will actually plug string into my mac without a dongle is the power supply.
03-03-2019, 07:20 AM - 1 Like   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by photolady95 Quote
My Windows has first rate quality hardware because it's not priority dedicated to Apple only, hardware and it is first rate because I wouldn't put anything else in my builds. To be fair, Apple now uses, in their desktops, Intel motherboards so their builds are made with the same type of components I use, only they're still made for Apple. Used to be anything Apple would only work in Apple. You had to buy a harddrive that could be formatted for Apple, you couldn't buy any old harddrive like you could for windows. I know, my biggest and latest and greatest (at the time, PowerPC 1110 Mac) was like that, ran at a whole 66mHz, top 72MB ram, 512MB hdd) I had to buy a harddrive that fit for Apple. Well, except for RAM, you could still buy RAM for a PC that would work in Apple too. I know cause that's what I bought to update the RAM in that PowerPC. Btw, I sold that top of line PowerPC to the college I was attending at the time, (1995) for a whole $499.95 to buy a PC. Because ICQ would not work properly on it.
My point is that Windows machines come from a variety of manufacturers and you better know what you are buying. Of course there are excellent Windows machines, but there are also some real clunkers. On the other hand, you buy the Mac operating system and you get a quality computer because that is what Apple builds.

You apparently are building your own computers and can control your component selection. Ergo, the quality of your hardware is strictly to your standards and choice. By the way, Apple moved to Intel about 14 or 15 years ago.

I used PCs for years as that was what our school district (my employer) used. But I seemed to be buying a new laptop every time I turned around. I noticed that my daughter and son-in-law kept using the same Macs. So when I retired in 2012, I bought a MacBook and have never looked back. It is still going, and I have gone fully over to Apple.
03-03-2019, 08:05 AM - 1 Like   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by photolady95 Quote
My Windows has first rate quality hardware because it's not priority dedicated to Apple only, hardware and it is first rate because I wouldn't put anything else in my builds. To be fair,
I guess you never heard of Boot Camp. When Apple switched to Intel processors Apple had the highest rate of compliance with the Windows standard, running boot camp, better than any WIndow's PC. Apples do both. That kind of messes up that claim. You are living in the pre Intel Apple world, the majority of which was in the century before this one. Apple has had intel processors since 2006, and since then their engineers have had the chance to source and acquire the best hardware available in the industry. Advanced technology may not run on Apple machines right off the shelf, but it's all available to the Apple design team. As to why Apple engineers select hardware for Apple computers, rigorous testing, possibly the best in the industry. You can take up your choices with Apple engineers and you may differ with their choices, but you probably don't have the same ability to evaluate longevity and reliability that they do.

I'm always amused at the argument "I sitting in my basement with a few components know more than the Apple design team." Apple has been maybe the one company on the planet that can keep you running. With a Windows machine it can be impossible to diagnose every product on every possible configuration. Apple looks after the whole package. When I look for help with an Apple product, I don't get the "it's a software problem" from the hardware vender, and the "it's a hardware problem" run around from the software vender. I've have had that before with some very expensive hardware/software combinations in the Windows world, if you want to talk ancient history.

Modern day, Apples are about off the shelf operation and better than industry standard components. My guess is a 10-20% advantage for 50% more money. You can match or exceed their performance, but you won't match their component evaluation, integration etc.

That some PC venders are left out of the Apple world, it's because they didn't meet Apples evaluation criteria. Not because they are superior. Or do you honestly believe that if Apple comes knocking on their door offering to buy a couple hundred thousand hard drives or video cards they say "No, we are a PC company."

Apple is definitely the company for those willing to pay a bit extra, for the service provided by Apple Care and so they don't have to know about computers to own one. But if you enjoy futzing around with computer components as kind of hobby, you're better off with a PC. You can go for more speed (although often with less reliability than Apple would allow). There are definitely more opportunities to futz in the Windows world, if you enjoy that kind of thing, but it's not necessary any more. And it's been that way forever.

Last edited by normhead; 03-03-2019 at 08:33 AM.
03-03-2019, 08:14 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by AggieDad Quote
By the way, Apple moved to Intel about 14 or 15 years ago.
Yup. And the rumor is Apple may be leaving Intel behind in terms of its desktops and laptops in a year or two. Already the company uses its own processors for its iOS mobile products - all of the iPhones, iPads, etc. So the move would make sense. I imagine Mac OS will become much more like iOS - or merge with it completely - before too long. It's already moving in that direction. My 2011 iMac is still working fine but can't use the latest Mac OS. I'm not sure whether I should wait for the new processors.
03-03-2019, 08:42 AM - 1 Like   #28
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Every Apple product I have works pretty flawlessly. I resisted the urge to get a smartphone for years but when I did I went with an Apple, and the two I've had since then have worked great, without real issue. The nice thing is that the Apple ecosystem just seems to work well if you have several of their products. Between the wife and I, we have the apple TV, two ipads, computer, two phones and they all hook up and work easily and well together. I like that you don't have to update right away too.

It's time for me to get a new computer and I'm looking at their Air or macbook Pro. I'm not even looking at PCs because the laptops I've had in the past have had issues, and I'm invested in the Apple ecosystem already.
03-03-2019, 11:49 AM - 1 Like   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Biro Quote
My 2011 iMac is still working fine but can't use the latest Mac OS. I'm not sure whether I should wait for the new processors.
Yes, my last update on my 2012 MacBook is High Sierra. It could probably run Mojave, but at 7 years old, I don't want to try and fix what is not broken. My iMac runs Mojave, but outside of the way the desktop displays files, I notice little difference.

We can always be waiting for the next new thing or we can enjoy what is. To be honest, my 2017 iMac is very fast and the 27" screen is gorgeous. I don't think I would notice a faster processor. The MacBook will be replaced when it either dies or I think it is an opportune time to ask the exchequer for money.
03-03-2019, 12:08 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I guess you never heard of Boot Camp. When Apple switched to Intel processors Apple had the highest rate of compliance with the Windows standard, running boot camp, better than any WIndow's PC. Apples do both.
I should have clarified that, it was when I had mine that everything I had in it was Apple priority. But from what I've read and heard, that is not the way it is now. I do remember when Apple went Intel and Apple owners could run Apple OS along side Windows if they wanted.


When did Apple start charging for the OS upgrades/updates? Mine were free when I had my PowerPC.


Don't get me wrong here guys, I'd love to own a tower Apple, but they are just too expensive for me. My PowerPC cost me $2500 in 1992, But I don't like books. I like towers. My last build cost me about $500.


While in college in the early to late 90s, I worked in the English department and got that job because I knew Apple, that's all they used there. So, don't count me out just because I use a PC now.

And I knew before I started typing my first answer,, I should not, I repeat,, not get into this discussion. LOL

Last edited by photolady95; 03-03-2019 at 12:16 PM.
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