[Wheatfield]

You all do know where the Windows we know on our PCs actually came from right? Steve Jobs and Bill Gates made a deal, and, viola, PCs got to share of Windows. Happened in 1995. Look it up. You'll see.

Was that when Microsoft gave Apple a pile of money to keep them in business?

[luftfluss]

Perhaps NSFW...

You Tube

You Tube

[PDL]

The biggest mistake ever, not making sure your favourite software works. I've actually (having worked six months in computer sales) met people who didn't realize a new OS means all new software. There are dual versions of much software, but my guess is there's still a lot that is only available on one platform. And, in some cases, you may have the Window's version, but there is no guarantee what will get you out of paying for the Mac version even if it is available cross platform.

But with so much software coming on the computers these days, it's much more manageable that it was.

And if the rumors are true, then Apple devices will go through the same thing in a few years. That means that Apple will be on its third or fourth processor family for its mainstream products which are not usable on the future architecture in their current form.

Apple II - MOS 6502
Apple III - Synertec 6502A
Apple Lisa Motorola 68000
Apple Macintosh - Motorola 6800, IBM PowerPC, Intel
Next iteration - Apple designed A series processors?

So one effect could be that if you buy Apple today, be ready to replace everything (again) when the newest model comes out. That is if the rumors are true.

Now Microsoft touted Windows NT to run on four processor architectures when it was released:
NT 3.0 - 3.51 IA-32 (Intel 32bit 80386 processors), MIPS, DEC Alpha - In fact the CD's for the OS came with builds for each processor family (I still have most of the CD's as my better half calls me a hoarder of such trivia)
After that they supported PowerPC, Itanium, x86-64 and ARM.
Back in the day, I saw WIndows NT 3.51 running on a HP RISC chip.
After a while, companies started to pull out - MIPS was die hard UNIX and they left first, DEC Alpha was bought out by Intel as DEC collapsed.

The best thing to remember is, the OS running on your device is just that - a OS. You will not live longer, happier or get more toys based on the OS you use. Your device will be as well behaved as you understand how to make it work to support your software. If you want to feel superior to the "unwashed" or "clones" or "members of a cult" - then get an education, listen to music, find a good partner, enjoy your food and drink, be kind, be helpful and above all - shoot with Pentax.

---------- Post added 03-04-19 at 09:20 PM ----------

Corporate IT workers like Windows networking because it keeps them in a job. Mac networking is so easy............... "A caveman can do it." (Thanks to GEICO fo that quote.)

You mean like the original MAC networking that was based on AppleTalk? Never worked in a corporate environment with IBM mainframes, UNIX, DOS based PC, Novell and Mac's eh? The first environment chased off of the corporate network from the 90's until the iPad came out was Apple, because they did not support TCP/IP.

Hint: I was working at the company that makes airframes that starts with the letter "B".

---------- Post added 03-04-19 at 09:27 PM ----------

You all do know where the Windows we know on our PCs actually came from right? Steve Jobs and Bill Gates made a deal, and, viola, PCs got to share of Windows. Happened in 1995. Look it up. You'll see.

Bill and Dead Steve made an agreement back in the 1984 period. When Apple came out with the Mac, Microsoft came out with Word and Excel (the GUI versions) which made Mac a viable office tool. Windows 1.0 came out in 1984.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_1.0
"Microsoft began developing a graphical user interface (GUI) in 1981. The development of Windows began after Microsoft founder Bill Gates saw a demonstration at COMDEX 1982 of VisiCorp's Visi On, a GUI software suite for IBM PC compatible computers. In 1983 Microsoft learned that Apple's own GUI software—based in part on Xerox PARC technology–was much more sophisticated, and decided that its own product would be different."

When Windows 3.0 came out Apple sued Microsoft for "stealing" the Mac GUI and they lost. At the same time Xerox tried to sue Apple for stealing the GUI but the judge told them that the statute of limitations had run out, he also said that Xerox would have won the case hands down.

No one has clean hands.

---------- Post added 03-04-19 at 09:37 PM ----------

Was that when Microsoft gave Apple a pile of money to keep them in business?

August 6th 1997, $150 million in non voting stock. The price was to make sure that Microsoft would continue to support Office for the Mac and Apple would drop their lawsuit about the look and feel of Windows (although Apple had already lost the lawsuit about the "recycle" icon) and the inclusion of IE embedded in the OS. (Remember, IE was a downloadable add on to the original Windows 95 fiasco).
Aug. 6, 1997: Apple Rescued ? by Microsoft | WIRED

[normhead]

So one effect could be that if you buy Apple today, be ready to replace everything (again) when the newest model comes out. That is if the rumors are true.

When Apple went from Motorola to Intel, it was seamless. I didn't replace any software or throw anything out, but believe what you want.

[acoufap]

When Apple went from Motorola to Intel, it was seamless. I didn't replace any software or throw anything out, but believe what you want.

Apple always tries to make big jumps sooo smooth and smart that we don't need to change software immediately. For the jump from motorola to intel they installed the framework "Rosetta" (an emulator) nearly seemless within OSX to get it done. It translated the motorola machine code to intel code. Rosetta stayed part of OSX for 5 years.

Another big jump was going from 32 to 64 bit in OSX. Also done very smooth. They prevented from going the windows route. Apple just integrated a framework in OSX that made it possible not to go with two OS versions like Microsoft did with windows. They really care about customers IMO.

[gaweidert]

Cool. What do you find makes it easier in OSX than it is in Windows 10?

Been out of that area since before wWndows 10 came along. Has it finally caught up with the MAC in that regard? Since I no longer need to worry about such things I do not pay attention to them like I used to. Does this make Microsoft like Pentax?


My wife has a laptop with Windows 8 on it. It also has a $2,400 software package on it that is used in designing embroidery work. Windows did one of their infamous automatic software upgrades to Windows 10 and it killed the software. Trying to start the software gave you the BSOD!!!!!!!!!!! I was able to get back to a last known good startup, reinstall Windows 8 and shut off automatic upgrades.

[mee]

Been out of that area since before wWndows 10 came along. Has it finally caught up with the MAC in that regard? Since I no longer need to worry about such things I do not pay attention to them like I used to. Does this make Microsoft like Pentax?

Ah I was hoping you had more than that...

[Just1MoreDave]

Apple stock!

[MarkJerling]

And if the rumors are true, then Apple devices will go through the same thing in a few years. That means that Apple will be on its third or fourth processor family for its mainstream products which are not usable on the future architecture in their current form.

Apple II - MOS 6502
Apple III - Synertec 6502A
Apple Lisa Motorola 68000
Apple Macintosh - Motorola 6800, IBM PowerPC, Intel
Next iteration - Apple designed A series processors?

So one effect could be that if you buy Apple today, be ready to replace everything (again) when the newest model comes out. That is if the rumors are true.

Now Microsoft touted Windows NT to run on four processor architectures when it was released:
NT 3.0 - 3.51 IA-32 (Intel 32bit 80386 processors), MIPS, DEC Alpha - In fact the CD's for the OS came with builds for each processor family (I still have most of the CD's as my better half calls me a hoarder of such trivia)
After that they supported PowerPC, Itanium, x86-64 and ARM.
Back in the day, I saw WIndows NT 3.51 running on a HP RISC chip.
After a while, companies started to pull out - MIPS was die hard UNIX and they left first, DEC Alpha was bought out by Intel as DEC collapsed.

The best thing to remember is, the OS running on your device is just that - a OS. You will not live longer, happier or get more toys based on the OS you use. Your device will be as well behaved as you understand how to make it work to support your software. If you want to feel superior to the "unwashed" or "clones" or "members of a cult" - then get an education, listen to music, find a good partner, enjoy your food and drink, be kind, be helpful and above all - shoot with Pentax.

---------- Post added 03-04-19 at 09:20 PM ----------



You mean like the original MAC networking that was based on AppleTalk? Never worked in a corporate environment with IBM mainframes, UNIX, DOS based PC, Novell and Mac's eh? The first environment chased off of the corporate network from the 90's until the iPad came out was Apple, because they did not support TCP/IP.

Hint: I was working at the company that makes airframes that starts with the letter "B".

---------- Post added 03-04-19 at 09:27 PM ----------


Bill and Dead Steve made an agreement back in the 1984 period. When Apple came out with the Mac, Microsoft came out with Word and Excel (the GUI versions) which made Mac a viable office tool. Windows 1.0 came out in 1984.
Windows 1.0 - Wikipedia
"Microsoft began developing a graphical user interface (GUI) in 1981. The development of Windows began after Microsoft founder Bill Gates saw a demonstration at COMDEX 1982 of VisiCorp's Visi On, a GUI software suite for IBM PC compatible computers. In 1983 Microsoft learned that Apple's own GUI software—based in part on Xerox PARC technology–was much more sophisticated, and decided that its own product would be different."

When Windows 3.0 came out Apple sued Microsoft for "stealing" the Mac GUI and they lost. At the same time Xerox tried to sue Apple for stealing the GUI but the judge told them that the statute of limitations had run out, he also said that Xerox would have won the case hands down.

No one has clean hands.

---------- Post added 03-04-19 at 09:37 PM ----------



August 6th 1997, $150 million in non voting stock. The price was to make sure that Microsoft would continue to support Office for the Mac and Apple would drop their lawsuit about the look and feel of Windows (although Apple had already lost the lawsuit about the "recycle" icon) and the inclusion of IE embedded in the OS. (Remember, IE was a downloadable add on to the original Windows 95 fiasco).
Aug. 6, 1997: Apple Rescued ? by Microsoft | WIRED

Great informative post!

[gaweidert]

Ah I was hoping you had more than that...

Well I did get training on Windows NT 3.51

[mee]

Well I did get training on Windows NT 3.51

Hah. Between your experiences with Window 8 and OSX what makes OSX networking easier for you?

[PDL]

When Apple went from Motorola to Intel, it was seamless. I didn't replace any software or throw anything out, but believe what you want.

Not really as I recall. The first few Mac's running on Intel had a PowerPC emulator so you could run your "old" software. But, after the switch to Intel, the vendors stopped distributing PowerPC native software. There was a point when the emulator was not included in the OS updates. By that time, third party software did not support PowerPC devices. The emulator was slower than the native code and the updated (read improved software with new features) would not run on PowerPC based devices.

Now, with that said, Apple did a very good job during the transition. However, in order to get the benefits of using the new features, you needed to have a Intel based device because the new software just did not run on a PowerPC device. Apple also "forced" their users off of the Motorola 680xx chips to the PowerPC chips even though Motorola and IBM jointly developed the PowerPC architecture. Been there, done that.

Even Microsoft had issues with keeping Word and Excel functional on NT 3.x on the MIPS and Alpha processors. I remember all the hubbub when MS said that NT would not run on the 80286. The articles in the PC press vilified them. Just like when MS was vilified over removing the 16bit subsystem from x64 versions of Windows. I used the 16 bit aspect part to remind Apple users that I had a MS-DOS 1.0 program off of my TI-Pro (1983) that would run on all of my Windows devices. I would ask my Apple friends just how many program from 1983 the could run on their Mac's.

---------- Post added 03-05-19 at 09:33 PM ----------

Been out of that area since before wWndows 10 came along. Has it finally caught up with the MAC in that regard? Since I no longer need to worry about such things I do not pay attention to them like I used to. Does this make Microsoft like Pentax?


My wife has a laptop with Windows 8 on it. It also has a $2,400 software package on it that is used in designing embroidery work. Windows did one of their infamous automatic software upgrades to Windows 10 and it killed the software. Trying to start the software gave you the BSOD!!!!!!!!!!! I was able to get back to a last known good startup, reinstall Windows 8 and shut off automatic upgrades.

So, you did not check to see if the vendor had updates? Most likely if it was giving you a BSOD there was an issue with a driver, and I would speculate the it was the embroidery software.

---------- Post added 03-05-19 at 09:40 PM ----------

Apple always tries to make big jumps sooo smooth and smart that we don't need to change software immediately. For the jump from motorola to intel they installed the framework "Rosetta" (an emulator) nearly seemless within OSX to get it done. It translated the motorola machine code to intel code. Rosetta stayed part of OSX for 5 years.

And new or updated versions of software was not being developed for PowerPC's. The PowerPC people either used old software or the had to buy new hardware.

---------- Post added 03-05-19 at 09:49 PM ----------

Another big jump was going from 32 to 64 bit in OSX. Also done very smooth. They prevented from going the windows route. Apple just integrated a framework in OSX that made it possible not to go with two OS versions like Microsoft did with windows. They really care about customers IMO.

I don't get what you are trying to say. On Windows, the transfer from 32 to 64 bit was seamless too. The only caveat was 16 bit software would not work. That was more of a vendor issue where they did not recompile their code/drivers with the 32bit switch turned on. Vendors are lazy, Microsoft told people for years that 16bit programs would not run in 64bit mode.

[gaweidert]

So, you did not check to see if the vendor had updates? Most likely if it was giving you a BSOD there was an issue with a driver, and I would speculate the it was the embroidery software.

.

The Windows 10 upgrade was when MS was pushing it out whether you wanted it or not. This happened. Wife's computer went belly up and I got it running again. I did not do computer stuff for a living but needed to know a little about it for my job. I am quite sure that the latest updates work fine in Windows 10 now, but my wife rarely uses the laptop and she is happy with it as is. The problem was that my wife needed the software to be up and running then and not have to wait until tech support opened the next Monday.

[normhead]

Not really as I recall

Absolutely as I recall. And I was running a lab with 20 networked Macs. My lack of problems need not be a comment on your problems. But both scenarios clearly existed. I guess. You often have to update software with new operating systems no matter what you use. This isn't confined to Mac going from PowerPC to Intel. Almost every upgrade of Windows does the same. I've heard far more complaints about the newest version of Windows ruining software or not running older software than I did with the Apple transition. The issue is not was it perfect. Perfect is more costly than folks want to pay. The issue is was it reasonable, and it was very reasonable.

[MarkJerling]

I had one bit of software that simply would not run on Windows 10 when I transitioned from Windows 8.1. It was a Chess program originally made for Windows 95.