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07-22-2019, 07:19 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobG Quote
The use of nautical miles in aviation is to do with the historical definition of the nautical mile at 1/60 of a degree of latitude along any line of longitude (one minute). It's now defined as 1852 metres. With the USA and UK initially dominant in the aviation industry after WW2, speeds in knots, distances in nautical miles and flight levels in feet have been made the standard.




Yes, the pilot essentially had half the amount of fuel because one measurement was in kilos while another was in pounds, and the units hadn't been recorded when the figures were provided. The part which is in my opinion criminal is that the aircraft didn't have an operational fuel gauge yet was allowed to fly. The pilot had actually flown out of Gimli while in the military, and had also flown gliders. The aircraft would have crashed except for those two factors. Gimli was the only airstrip (uknown to him now a dragstrip) which they could reach, and his experience with gliding meant he had some experience with side-slipping to bleed off speed. That was probably the only time a commercial jet has ever been side-slipped. The aircraft landed safely. There were some minor injuries because the front wheel collapsed, and the slides at the back of the aircraft were too high. But the aircraft was repaired and I believe it is still flying.
The aircraft as you say was repaired. It flew in service till 2008.

07-22-2019, 03:38 PM   #47
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I use tons, I also use yards.
07-22-2019, 05:08 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
The aircraft as you say was repaired. It flew in service till 2008.
Ah, I didn't know that it had been retired, but that makes sense.


QuoteOriginally posted by pentax360 Quote
I use tons, I also use yards.
Good to know that there's someone who uses the whole nine yards of the measurement system.
07-22-2019, 05:45 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobG Quote
Versatile? I just find that relating driving at 100 kmh to the time to drive somewhere is a whole lot simpler in your head than 60 miles an hour. But perhaps folks in the USA are able to think in base 12 better than me.
They're not any better at thinking in base 12. The common highway speed limit was 60 miles per hour, so the car was travelling at a mile per minute. A distance of 60 miles would take 60 minutes (one hour) to drive.

07-22-2019, 06:26 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by pete-tarmigan Quote
They're not any better at thinking in base 12. The common highway speed limit was 60 miles per hour, so the car was travelling at a mile per minute. A distance of 60 miles would take 60 minutes (one hour) to drive.
That relationship is simple for travel up to an hour, but it gets harder for long distances. I guess I'm used to driving long distances in Australia, and I find dividing 435 km by 100 easier in my head by moving a decimal point than dividing 435 miles by 60. When I drove from Buffalo to Quebec and back through New Hampshire, Vermont and New York, the speed limits varied from 65 mph in the USA to 100 kmh in Canada, and the speed limit in Canada was much easier to deal with. I can remember estimating travel time in miles per hour when I was a child, but I'm glad I don't have to do it now. I guess it's not a problem anymore because Google maps tells you how long it will take and it's accurate, right?
07-26-2019, 07:03 AM - 1 Like   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobG Quote
OK, so how do you determine when to use tons and when to use pounds? Other than when something weighs less than one ton?




Agreed. I knew that Imperial tons were close to Metric tonnes. Until now I was only vaguely aware that the Imperial (long) ton and the US (short) ton were different. I knew that UK and US gallons were different - very different. It seems bizarre to measure something as big as a Saturn V rocket or a 747 in pounds rather than tons. The whole idea of tons was to be able to use smaller numbers for bigger weights!
I think many people have mentioned a good amount on how it is used. My take though, there is a few accounts when used. A generalization with out being specific to make things seem larger. In this case when having a conversation and you just don't want to deal with something or doing the work. Saying that it weighs a ton oddly enough sounds that it weighs more then saying it weighs 1000 pounds(it really isn't and it is twice as much). That even goes into the thought of marketing. People will think a half ton pickup truck would haul more and sounds better then saying a 1000 pound pickup truck which people think man that truck is heavy.

Which goes into the next point it is used in hauling items on a trailer. To save on space they use the measurement in tons. Do you use 20000 pounds or 10 tons. 10 tons is much easier to phathom and write for weight of the trailer or weight load of what the truck can pull.

The next is used for lifting. Cranes, chainfalls, etc. Now this one can be tricky and depends on the one you talk to. Some will still say pounds, but a good number of times in the maritime shipping industry or even a ton of lifts we do for buildings (used as a generalization in this case as I don't have a exact amount) we would use tons at a certain point. I wouldn't use a quarter ton when speaking about 500 pounds, I might use a half ton though as it's quicker to write and also say then 1000lbs, also I can be exact. On the flip side I would use 1500 pounds over three quarter ton.


Refrigeration. This one is different, and goes back to the day when refrigeration was all about blocks of ice and ice making. But to bore you from the details, in refrigeration you are looking at the system as a whole and the charge of refrigerant in the system. How one ton of refrigeration capacity can freeze one ton of water in 24 hours. Often times it gets calculated in terms of btu/minute or even horsepower which can be used in their specific conditions. 2000lbs is 1 us ton of refrigerant which can remove 200 btu/min or about 4.7 horsepower of work. I think outside the us uses kilowatt instead of horsepower, kw/kj instead of btu/lb, and uses tonne instead of us short ton.



---------- Post added 07-26-19 at 07:08 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by 5shot Quote
I'm not sure too many Millennials know what a Ton is, although it is used quite a bit in the states. I don't really concern myself too much with what measurement is used, so I could easily see myself saying 100,000 pounds as opposed to 50 Tons, and I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering.
I'm a millennial and I know. My background is maritime/ industrial/building engineering and I'm more accustomed in using 50 tons in that scenario myself opposed to saying 100000 pounds.

---------- Post added 07-26-19 at 07:21 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by jeallen01 Quote
Has anyone mentioned the metric tonne, i.e, 1000 kgs or 2204.6226218 lbs, and thus 10% bigger than the US ton and about 36 lbs less than the Imperial ton? AFAIK, most of the World's countries use the metric version!
That's why we have the long ton to make sure it comes out being bigger. Yes as the long ton is roughly 2240 pounds.
07-26-2019, 09:45 AM - 1 Like   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobG Quote
That relationship is simple for travel up to an hour, but it gets harder for long distances. I guess I'm used to driving long distances in Australia, and I find dividing 435 km by 100 easier in my head by moving a decimal point than dividing 435 miles by 60. When I drove from Buffalo to Quebec and back through New Hampshire, Vermont and New York, the speed limits varied from 65 mph in the USA to 100 kmh in Canada, and the speed limit in Canada was much easier to deal with. I can remember estimating travel time in miles per hour when I was a child, but I'm glad I don't have to do it now. I guess it's not a problem anymore because Google maps tells you how long it will take and it's accurate, right?
I dunno. I don't have any problems switching between kmh and mph. Maybe because I've done it since around 1970, going between Canada and the U.S., I can convert in my head and believe me, I'm no Einstein.

. Mostly we use google maps to calculate distance between centres, either in miles or kilometres as it's faster than measuring along roads depicted on maps.

As you say you are...' used to driving long distances in Australia, and ...find dividing 435 km by 100 easier in my head by moving a decimal point than dividing 435 miles by 60. '

I think it comes down to what you are used to doing. The more you do it, the more proficient you become...for me anyways. I prefer the old British Imperial system...and even though in Canada we were changed to the metric system, lo those many years ago...the measurement system we use now...is a mixture of sorts...for everybody...millennials to oldsters and everyone in between in Canada. When someone is asked how tall they are...for the most part...the response will be..in feet...inches. Weight...pounds, rarely kilograms.

I go to the hardware store to get some plywood...the measurement is in feet, etc. I could go on.

It was a federal decision made by the political party in charge way back when...and I won't go into the reasons it was done...some say they were official and some say other reasons....because this is a non political forum and rightly so.

Last edited by lesmore49; 07-27-2019 at 03:59 AM.
07-29-2019, 06:57 AM   #53
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To be fair, most Americans hardly ever purchase anything that is sold by the ton. I'm speaking of the 2000 lb. ton exclusively.

As was mentioned, trucks are labeled by their capacity in tons: 1/4-ton, 1/2-ton, 1-ton. You pretty much have to own a truck, or hire one, to buy anything else that comes by the ton. Well, I guess the gravel pit might send their own truck with your ton of driveway gravel. If one buys concrete, to be poured for some project, while it could be sold by the ton, it's sold by the cubic-yard.

I'm aware of units of measure that have nearly disappeared for American culture. My grandfather, regularly used the rod (16 1/2 feet) as a unit of measurement, and once in retelling an experience from his childhood, said that a certain moment in the story the sun was only about "3 rod high" above the horizon.

I am more worried about the perversion of the common units of measure like the gallon and the pound. In place of what used to be 1/2 gallon cartons of ice cream in the freezer case of the grocery store, is now a container that only holds a bit more than 3 pints. You can't buy a 1-pound can of coffee anymore, either. Where the pound cans were are similarly shaped containers that contain much less product.

07-29-2019, 05:29 PM - 1 Like   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fcsnt54 Quote
Refrigeration. This one is different, and goes back to the day when refrigeration was all about blocks of ice and ice making. But to bore you from the details, in refrigeration you are looking at the system as a whole and the charge of refrigerant in the system. How one ton of refrigeration capacity can freeze one ton of water in 24 hours. Often times it gets calculated in terms of btu/minute or even horsepower which can be used in their specific conditions. 2000lbs is 1 us ton of refrigerant which can remove 200 btu/min or about 4.7 horsepower of work. I think outside the us uses kilowatt instead of horsepower, kw/kj instead of btu/lb, and uses tonne instead of us short ton.
You rarely hear the term ton used in refrigeration anymore. Most AC and refrigeration units are rated in BTU's which is the energy to raise the temperature of one pound of water 1 degree F. 12,000 BTU's are equal to one ton. Very large commercial AC units still are sometimes rated in tons. But with all that said, I'm not sure if that is only in the US because we're just about the only place still using the Fahrenheit temp scale. I see air conditioners advertised in stores with BTU ratings and I kind of snicker because almost nobody probably knows what that means.

Living in upstate NY with our cold winters, things regularly sold by the ton are coal and wood pellets for use in stoves. While heat output is very variable in stoves, a ton of pellets or coal are considered equivalent to a cord of wood. For those who aren't familiar with that measurement, it's a stack of cut and split firewood 4x4x8 feet. A full cord is considered the maximum safe load on a one ton truck.
07-29-2019, 07:14 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by reeftool Quote
You rarely hear the term ton used in refrigeration anymore. Most AC and refrigeration units are rated in BTU's which is the energy to raise the temperature of one pound of water 1 degree F. 12,000 BTU's are equal to one ton. Very large commercial AC units still are sometimes rated in tons. But with all that said, I'm not sure if that is only in the US because we're just about the only place still using the Fahrenheit temp scale. I see air conditioners advertised in stores with BTU ratings and I kind of snicker because almost nobody probably knows what that means.

Living in upstate NY with our cold winters, things regularly sold by the ton are coal and wood pellets for use in stoves. While heat output is very variable in stoves, a ton of pellets or coal are considered equivalent to a cord of wood. For those who aren't familiar with that measurement, it's a stack of cut and split firewood 4x4x8 feet. A full cord is considered the maximum safe load on a one ton truck.
Just to complicate matters, there's quite the difference between a thrown cord and stacked cord. While most everything is metric here, firewood is usually sold by the cord, or, failing which as a 4 cubic metres load.
07-29-2019, 08:48 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by reeftool Quote
You rarely hear the term ton used in refrigeration anymore. Most AC and refrigeration units are rated in BTU's which is the energy to raise the temperature of one pound of water 1 degree F. 12,000 BTU's are equal to one ton. Very large commercial AC units still are sometimes rated in tons. But with all that said, I'm not sure if that is only in the US because we're just about the only place still using the Fahrenheit temp scale. I see air conditioners advertised in stores with BTU ratings and I kind of snicker because almost nobody probably knows what that means.

Living in upstate NY with our cold winters, things regularly sold by the ton are coal and wood pellets for use in stoves. While heat output is very variable in stoves, a ton of pellets or coal are considered equivalent to a cord of wood. For those who aren't familiar with that measurement, it's a stack of cut and split firewood 4x4x8 feet. A full cord is considered the maximum safe load on a one ton truck.
Must be the location? I hear it daily for the refrigeration systems here in california

07-29-2019, 09:33 PM   #57
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QuoteQuote:
Air conditioning is measured in tons too.
"BTUs" here.
07-30-2019, 06:00 AM - 1 Like   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fcsnt54 Quote
Must be the location? I hear it daily for the refrigeration systems here in california
I've worked on truck and trailer refrigeration and mobile AC for over 40 years and all the systems are rated in BTU's. All the residential AC units I have worked on are also rated in BTU's although that type of system hasn't been my bread and butter through the years. The large commercial rooftop AC units are more often rated in tons. When I was in factory training numerous times through the years since the late 70's at the Carrier facility in Syracuse, they always mentioned BTU's and that tons was an older rating that was going away.

---------- Post added 07-30-19 at 09:05 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
Just to complicate matters, there's quite the difference between a thrown cord and stacked cord. While most everything is metric here, firewood is usually sold by the cord, or, failing which as a 4 cubic metres load.
There is also the "face cord" which is a single stack of wood 4 feet high and 8 feet long. Some also consider a "face cord" a thrown load in a 8 foot pickup bed, level with the top of the sides.
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