Civic Responsibility?

Venturi · 10-14-2008, 08:40 PM

I had my first experience tonight where me and my camera might have made a real difference in a serious situation.

I stepped outside this evening to try and capture the moonrise with the K20D & DA18-250. As I was framing in the shot I heard one hell of a racket coming from up the street, and then heard a woman screaming and more crashing and banging. I looked up the street to see a pickup truck backing off of a lawn, onto the street and begin heading my way. And then another truck pulled out following the first one.

Now flash to my brain: "You've got a *good* camera take the shot!!!" "No idiot, you've got your wife and 6mo old son inside; these guys already played bumper cars with one house; if they see you and your camera they likely will play the same game with you!"

Well, I listened to the 2nd voice and went inside the house and called 911 giving them the best description of the vehicles I could. They said "thanks" and within 5 minutes squad cars, a fire truck and EMS were on the scene. No idea if they caught up to the guys in the two trucks.

Two years ago I know I would have stood my ground and getting as many shots as I could (while trying to conceal myself) and probably had some damning evidence for the police. Today, I chose in a realtime instant (ten minutes in my head)to tuck the camera away and retreat.

Did I act properly by putting my personal safety and that of my family first? Or do we (or perhaps should we) as photographers, amateur and professional alike, carry the responsibility to use our talent and equipment when situations like this present themselves?

I'll suspect I will be asking that question of myself for a while.

Mark2100 · 10-14-2008, 09:01 PM

I would say you didn't have enough information to risk your family and did the right thing. Remember, nobody knew where Batman, Spiderman, or Superman etc. etc. lived. In their alter-egos, in their front yard, they would have done the same thing.

X Man · 10-14-2008, 09:30 PM

I agree with Mark. You did the right thing. You're under no obligation, in my mind to risk the safety of your family to take photographs of possibly dangerous criminals during commision of a crime.

Your duty was to call the police, and you did.

Regards,
Mike

fiveo · 10-14-2008, 09:52 PM

Don't second guess your actions. You did the right thing. Most people refuse to get involved to the extent that they don't even call 911 when they witness these things. You went beyond that by giving a description of the suspect vehicles. The fact that it took 5 minutes for help to arrive should tell you that if you would have been noticed taking pics of the bad guys, they would have had plenty of time to "get rid of the evidence". Believe me, when things go bad 30 seconds can be an eternity let alone 5 minutes.

**Eaglerapids** · 10-14-2008, 10:05 PM

That would have been a very tough call and I understand your dilemma. You did the right thing.
There were people in the house that may have needed help right now and you did that for them. That was far more important than getting pics. The police will take care of the bad guys.

J.Scott · 10-15-2008, 03:02 AM

If you are not a cop, don't pretend you are. Calling the cops was the smart and responsible thing to do. I don't like generalizations but come on, you're in America, they probably had guns! If they would have seen you taking pictures of them they could have taken it as an act of aggression and acted appropriately. We all know it isn't smart to bring anything less than a gun to a gun fight.

Sleep well, fellow Pentaxian, you done good!

Taff · 10-15-2008, 03:29 AM

domestic violence=domestic forgivness

but would they have forgiven you........I doubt it!

Nels · 10-15-2008, 08:23 AM

Bravo for you Jimbo! At least you cared enough to call for help. Now if you would have been shooting with a canon it would have been ok. LOL They wouldn't have had a chance.

**Lowell Goudge** · 10-15-2008, 09:29 AM

it is impossible to give you a good answer, but the important thing is you called the police and let them and the emergency services handle it.

That is by far the most important thing, as all too many people would simply have done nothing.

As for a camera in hand, I doubt it would have made any difference at all.

You were out taking shots of the moon suggesting it was dark out. I can't guess your settings, but unless you had the ISO all the way up, were using spot metering, and a much faster lens than the 18-250, I am willing to bet that you would not get an infocus shot (with any make camera) and been able to read the plate or ID the driver. In the process, your general description may have been worse. You didn't have the luxury of time to set up and take a good shot.

tybeck · 10-15-2008, 09:43 AM

I'd say you did the right thing. You never know what you will get into if you intervene. Domestic calls are the least favorite of any police office I know, and they have training and practice on how to best deal with them. You don't. They've chosen that profession and have the tools to deal with it properly. In your life the safely of you and your family should come first.

Venturi · 10-15-2008, 11:13 AM

Well I feel quite a bit better about my chosen action last night. Drove by the house a little bit ago on the way back from the post office. It's a house that has been in the process of being "flipped" for about 6mos now and is vacant. I'm guessing the incident was brought on by some contractor dispute and it escalated into one party taking their displeasure out on the new cedar carport.

The screaming/yelling must have been one or more of the next door neighbors trying to get them to stop and they spooked the miscreants before they finished the job.

And Lowell you're very likely right. The 18-250 zoomed in enough to get a good enough shot likely would have been too slow in the twilight even with SR.

Thanks to all for the input and confirmations.

Oh, Mark2100 .... I'm Batman

Tom S. · 10-15-2008, 02:38 PM

I guess I'm the odd man out. I would have shot pictures of the licenses if I could and then called the cops. From what you stated, intitally you didn't know what was going on. It could have been a robbery or worse.

Mark2100 · 10-15-2008, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by Venturi

Oh, Mark2100 .... I'm Batman

I knew that...

MRRiley · 10-16-2008, 08:58 AM

Originally posted by Venturi

...

Oh, Mark2100 .... I'm Batman

Well.... I am Spartacus!

btw, you did right. call the cops and let them handle it (unless someone is in physical danger then Beretta and S&W and I might have to get involved).

Venturi · 10-16-2008, 10:36 AM

Thanks Spartacus

Interestingly, I've been noticing a lot more activity at the house the past couple days - like they're actually working on the place again. And about an hour ago, I saw the truck that did the damage the other night drive by after leaving the property. They really bashed up their front fender good; I hope they feel better. LOL

10-14-2008, 08:40 PM	#1
Venturi Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tulsa, OK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,636	Civic Responsibility? I had my first experience tonight where me and my camera might have made a real difference in a serious situation. I stepped outside this evening to try and capture the moonrise with the K20D & DA18-250. As I was framing in the shot I heard one hell of a racket coming from up the street, and then heard a woman screaming and more crashing and banging. I looked up the street to see a pickup truck backing off of a lawn, onto the street and begin heading my way. And then another truck pulled out following the first one. Now flash to my brain: "You've got a good camera take the shot!!!" "No idiot, you've got your wife and 6mo old son inside; these guys already played bumper cars with one house; if they see you and your camera they likely will play the same game with you!" Well, I listened to the 2nd voice and went inside the house and called 911 giving them the best description of the vehicles I could. They said "thanks" and within 5 minutes squad cars, a fire truck and EMS were on the scene. No idea if they caught up to the guys in the two trucks. Two years ago I know I would have stood my ground and getting as many shots as I could (while trying to conceal myself) and probably had some damning evidence for the police. Today, I chose in a realtime instant (ten minutes in my head)to tuck the camera away and retreat. Did I act properly by putting my personal safety and that of my family first? Or do we (or perhaps should we) as photographers, amateur and professional alike, carry the responsibility to use our talent and equipment when situations like this present themselves? I'll suspect I will be asking that question of myself for a while.

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10-14-2008, 09:01 PM	#2
Mark2100 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 185	I would say you didn't have enough information to risk your family and did the right thing. Remember, nobody knew where Batman, Spiderman, or Superman etc. etc. lived. In their alter-egos, in their front yard, they would have done the same thing.

10-14-2008, 09:30 PM	#3
X Man Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Maine Photos: Gallery Posts: 478	I agree with Mark. You did the right thing. You're under no obligation, in my mind to risk the safety of your family to take photographs of possibly dangerous criminals during commision of a crime. Your duty was to call the police, and you did. Regards, Mike

10-14-2008, 09:52 PM	#4
fiveo Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kansas Posts: 109	Don't second guess your actions. You did the right thing. Most people refuse to get involved to the extent that they don't even call 911 when they witness these things. You went beyond that by giving a description of the suspect vehicles. The fact that it took 5 minutes for help to arrive should tell you that if you would have been noticed taking pics of the bad guys, they would have had plenty of time to "get rid of the evidence". Believe me, when things go bad 30 seconds can be an eternity let alone 5 minutes.

10-14-2008, 10:05 PM	#5
Eaglerapids Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Idaho,USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,619	That would have been a very tough call and I understand your dilemma. You did the right thing. There were people in the house that may have needed help right now and you did that for them. That was far more important than getting pics. The police will take care of the bad guys.

10-15-2008, 03:02 AM	#6
J.Scott Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,675	If you are not a cop, don't pretend you are. Calling the cops was the smart and responsible thing to do. I don't like generalizations but come on, you're in America, they probably had guns! If they would have seen you taking pictures of them they could have taken it as an act of aggression and acted appropriately. We all know it isn't smart to bring anything less than a gun to a gun fight. Sleep well, fellow Pentaxian, you done good!

10-15-2008, 03:29 AM	#7
Taff Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Perth Western Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,612	domestic violence=domestic forgivness but would they have forgiven you........I doubt it!

10-15-2008, 08:23 AM	#8
Nels Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Collinsville, Ok. Photos: Gallery Posts: 218	Bravo for you Jimbo! At least you cared enough to call for help. Now if you would have been shooting with a canon it would have been ok. LOL They wouldn't have had a chance.

10-15-2008, 09:29 AM	#9
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,891	it is impossible to give you a good answer, but the important thing is you called the police and let them and the emergency services handle it. That is by far the most important thing, as all too many people would simply have done nothing. As for a camera in hand, I doubt it would have made any difference at all. You were out taking shots of the moon suggesting it was dark out. I can't guess your settings, but unless you had the ISO all the way up, were using spot metering, and a much faster lens than the 18-250, I am willing to bet that you would not get an infocus shot (with any make camera) and been able to read the plate or ID the driver. In the process, your general description may have been worse. You didn't have the luxury of time to set up and take a good shot.

10-15-2008, 09:43 AM	#10
tybeck Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 452	I'd say you did the right thing. You never know what you will get into if you intervene. Domestic calls are the least favorite of any police office I know, and they have training and practice on how to best deal with them. You don't. They've chosen that profession and have the tools to deal with it properly. In your life the safely of you and your family should come first.

10-15-2008, 11:13 AM	#11
Venturi Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tulsa, OK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,636 Original Poster	Well I feel quite a bit better about my chosen action last night. Drove by the house a little bit ago on the way back from the post office. It's a house that has been in the process of being "flipped" for about 6mos now and is vacant. I'm guessing the incident was brought on by some contractor dispute and it escalated into one party taking their displeasure out on the new cedar carport. The screaming/yelling must have been one or more of the next door neighbors trying to get them to stop and they spooked the miscreants before they finished the job. And Lowell you're very likely right. The 18-250 zoomed in enough to get a good enough shot likely would have been too slow in the twilight even with SR. Thanks to all for the input and confirmations. Oh, Mark2100 .... I'm Batman

10-15-2008, 02:38 PM	#12
Tom S. Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: S.E. Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 4,317	I guess I'm the odd man out. I would have shot pictures of the licenses if I could and then called the cops. From what you stated, intitally you didn't know what was going on. It could have been a robbery or worse.

10-15-2008, 02:52 PM	#13
Mark2100 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 185	Originally posted by Venturi Oh, Mark2100 .... I'm Batman I knew that...

10-16-2008, 08:58 AM	#14
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275	Originally posted by Venturi ... Oh, Mark2100 .... I'm Batman Well.... I am Spartacus! btw, you did right. call the cops and let them handle it (unless someone is in physical danger then Beretta and S&W and I might have to get involved).

10-16-2008, 10:36 AM	#15
Venturi Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tulsa, OK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,636 Original Poster	Thanks Spartacus Interestingly, I've been noticing a lot more activity at the house the past couple days - like they're actually working on the place again. And about an hour ago, I saw the truck that did the damage the other night drive by after leaving the property. They really bashed up their front fender good; I hope they feel better. LOL