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04-30-2020, 06:59 PM   #61
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The St. Louis Zoo is free to area residents and has since 1904 taken a global leadership role in ethical care for and display of animals, wildlife conservation,,scientific research, education and animal husbandry. I support our Zoo financially and through service. I have no moral problems with that kind of Zoo - there are several dozen such zoos in the USA.

Besides, where else can I see penguins
without gettin on a crazy boat to Antarctica (Sandy Hancock)?

Photographing at The Zoo is often an exercise in frustration due to poor sight lines (the good spots are packed 10 people deep), constant keepers in the frame and animals that generally spend a lot of their time hiding themselves from the crowds. Policies prohibit long lenses and monopods and, of course, tripods. Management feels they “own” the animals’ image rights and discourage “professional” cameras and lenses. You can get away with it using a backpack but they’re all grab shots because if you stop too long to compose or wait for a face or eye shot the people walking behind you get a little antsy and photobomb or verbally encourage you to move on, already.


Last edited by monochrome; 04-30-2020 at 07:20 PM.
05-01-2020, 02:59 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
Very true!

While I agree that zoos provide a great opportunity (for many of us) to see animals in the live that we will not otherwise see, or be able to photograph, I do struggle with this same problem. When looking at, for instance, highly intelligent animals like elephants, which, in the wild roam over enormous areas, a zoo is really not an appropriate place to see them.

Likewise, I don't think that we should be keeping our closest living relatives, the great apes, in zoos at all. Their intelligence is such that I feel it's incredibly cruel to keep them incarcerated in zoos. But- if the zoo has adequate spaces for the animals I don't have too much of a problem for many other animals.

I'm not sure how we decide which animals are too intelligent for zoos and which are not. I've met goldfish with more character and intelligence that the typical politician so, where do you draw the line?
I think at this point we have a group of animals that are bred and raised in captivity. I don't think they would be able to be released into the wild due to this. I agree totally that there should be adequate space given to them and as humane treatment as possible, but I don't think it is in the best interest of a Grizzly Bear that was born and raised in captivity, to release it into Yellowstone or some such locale. Odds are good that it wouldn't survive such a plan.
05-01-2020, 03:19 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think at this point we have a group of animals that are bred and raised in captivity. I don't think they would be able to be released into the wild due to this. I agree totally that there should be adequate space given to them and as humane treatment as possible, but I don't think it is in the best interest of a Grizzly Bear that was born and raised in captivity, to release it into Yellowstone or some such locale. Odds are good that it wouldn't survive such a plan.
the zoo where I volunteer as a docent has no animals which were not zoo bred with the except of a few rescue animals, injured in the wild or orphaned in the wild.

as far as I know, most of the zoos in the US rarely import animals from the wild but get fresh " stock " via other zoos and that is very organized by an international group which keeps the genetic records of zoo stock in an effort to keep genetic diversity in zoo stock

in fact, some animals are introduced back into the wild from zoo stock - cygnets from zoos rebuilt the trumpeter swan wild population as an example

______________________

all zoo personal I know wish the animals could have more space but here are the problems with that

being able to afford and create such habitat ( think of the range that a pet cat or dog allowed outside without supervision roams )

and visitors to zoos expect to see the animals, not large habitats where the animals are able to keep out of sight:


" why can't we see ___________________ "

" I'm sorry but we allow the animals to go in and out of the inside part of the exhibit at will during this heat/cold "

" the animal does need to have some cover/structure to feel more secure and that can cause some visibility problems "

" but I paid to see _________________________ "

Last edited by aslyfox; 05-01-2020 at 03:28 AM.
05-01-2020, 05:42 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by aslyfox Quote
the zoo where I volunteer as a docent has no animals which were not zoo bred with the except of a few rescue animals, injured in the wild or orphaned in the wild.

as far as I know, most of the zoos in the US rarely import animals from the wild but get fresh " stock " via other zoos and that is very organized by an international group which keeps the genetic records of zoo stock in an effort to keep genetic diversity in zoo stock

in fact, some animals are introduced back into the wild from zoo stock - cygnets from zoos rebuilt the trumpeter swan wild population as an example

______________________

all zoo personal I know wish the animals could have more space but here are the problems with that

being able to afford and create such habitat ( think of the range that a pet cat or dog allowed outside without supervision roams )

and visitors to zoos expect to see the animals, not large habitats where the animals are able to keep out of sight:


" why can't we see ___________________ "

" I'm sorry but we allow the animals to go in and out of the inside part of the exhibit at will during this heat/cold "

" the animal does need to have some cover/structure to feel more secure and that can cause some visibility problems "

" but I paid to see _________________________ "
Of course. My experience is that either the animals were wild, but injured and can't be returned to the wild as a result, or they were raised in captivity.

I have visited zoos a lot over time and I think the conditions have gotten a lot better for the animals since my childhood. I think space is a big consideration. A place like the San Diego Safari has thousands of acres, while many zoos have much more limited space.

05-03-2020, 03:39 PM - 3 Likes   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by aslyfox Quote

and visitors to zoos expect to see the animals, not large habitats where the animals are able to keep out of sight:


" why can't we see ___________________ "

" I'm sorry but we allow the animals to go in and out of the inside part of the exhibit at will during this heat/cold "

"
A park ranger told me a lot of comment cards at Yellowstone are by people upset that the rangers don't have the bears and wolves out where people can see them.
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