[Photo Tramp]

The best thing I could say at this time is don't put any stock in what you see on the news. (it's all B.S. Just to make news and nothing more. It shows the ignorance of the media and also those who were interviewed) the only thing you need to do is look at what both parties are really saying What is the republican party going to do and what is the democratic party going to do and realize that neither party is going to do anything. Both will say what you want to hear, but when it comes time to really do anything, they as president can't make any changes with out congress and senate, and the people of this nation. They can sponsor bills for change but without the house, senate, and the American people those bills will never take effect.
What you have to do is figure out (in this case) who would be the lessor of two evils. the American people lack leadership (in this I mean there has not been one person for a long time that can lead or gain the trust of the people) there just hasn't been any party or person for a long time who you can trust. Politicians are out for themselves not for you and I. They all have their own agenda.
So figure out which one would be the best and give the guy 4 years to prove it.
this country is facing some of the worst economic challenges since the 1930's.
We can't stand another 4-8 years of the same bull shit that got us into this mess in the first place, and we sure don't need a president to die in office (either one)
Just think if McCain gets elected and dies in office then we have a person unqualified to take office and lead. She has no experience in national affairs, and already brings with her scandal from her governorship, as misusing her power. (I know I don't want this again.).
On the other hand there is a hopeful that lacks experience, but surrounds himself with experience and some of the smartest people available today. he also has a running mate that has experience and knows national affairs and is very qualified to take his place if something happened.
So look at your choices and what they stand for and forget the media bullshit, and vote your conscience. BUT VOTE, if you don't vote then you have no right complaining about who was voted in. YOUR VOTE COUNTS.

[navcom]

Deeejjaaaa,

You are making my point by your posts. 99% of the people who come to this country come because of the freedom offered...freedom to make more money, freedom from oppression, freedom of religion, freedom from the thought police, etc. Capitalism has provided that to a great extent.

And please don't assume you know all about me. You don't know me or my background/race, just as I do not know you. I live in one of those "small towns in the middle of nowhere". I assure you that most in my community will not rush to socialism for security. Our small communities here have thousands of small businesses...one of which I own. We also have several large employers. Most of those small business owners (myself included) once worked for one of those large employers until we were able to fulfill our dream of starting our own business through hard work and saving our money. Many, many employees of those large businesses ALSO have small businesses on the side. Under socialism, will we have that choice? Or will they be required to work for the large employer with a set salary or be allowed to own a business but be taxed/regulated until we are in our place...a place determined by a far-away governing body who thinks EVERYONE works for a large employer? You just don't know.

Many of those who came to this country and settled in our community here own their own businesses now...I can name several off the top of my head because they are my life-long friends....Mexican, Venezuelan, Vietnamese, Chinese, Somali, Bosnians, and Serbs. My grandparents did the same. In their home country(s), they were either oppressed economically or physically. Most of them had a choice to come here and just wanted more opportunity. They know they are free to leave whenever they like as we all are but they stay because they have opportunity, not because they have "benefits" given to them by the state. Some had no choice but to flee. I assure you they may miss their homelands but they do not want to go back nor do they want this country to become like the country they left. Quite the contrary...most want their homelands to become more like the U.S.!

Most are now American citizens or in the process of become one. And they are very proud of their accomplishments. As a matter of fact, most of these so-called "foreigners" respect this country and it's opportunities more than those who were born here. They have something to compare it to. How do I know all this? As I said, they are my friends and we talk about it all the time.

I'm not going to get drawn into a fight about who is right on politics on a photography forum. This thread might be about politics, but it is not about destroying another. Most here are just posting our diverse ideas, just like we post diverse photos. Diverse ideas are good. Most are not trying to destroy each other's views or degrade anothers opinions by calling them dinosaurs. I refuse to call you any name because of your views and as the old cliche goes, I will defend your right to have your own views if called upon.

You have a right to your political views and I wholeheartedly respect them. Please respect my right to the same.

Good luck to you and I really do wish you the best.

[reeftool]

The red state/blue state is another smokescreen also. If you look at the numbers the difference is very close most of the time, 49% to 51% or similar which could change easily. I live in NY which is considered a liberal/democrat state by the media but the different regions are quite different in their politics. The stereotypes don't fit. Large states like Texas and NY with equal mixes of urban/suburban and rural/small towns can easily change color on those maps depending on things like voter turnout and local issues. I wonder.....if the present economic meltdown had happened 9 months ago would we have the same choices in the election we have now? The media considered Ron Paul a nut but now they are looking back and realizing he called it right. People are angry and scared and I don't think the old political smokescreens are going to work well this time around. McCain seems to have sold his soul to the republican machine to get the nomination, he's not the same guy who ran in 2000. Obama seems to be promising pie in the sky to everybody and anyone with common sense knows he can't do what he says, even if he wants to. In past elections I have voted for alternative candidates like Ron Paul in 88 and Ross Perot. Reality is that either McCain or Obama are going to get the job even if I don't like the choice. I kind of lean toward Obama because he is more levelheaded and willing to change if he sees that his plan isn't working. Still, i'm not sure. I'll decide on nov. 4.

[séamuis]

Just think if McCain gets elected and dies in office then we have a person unqualified to take office and lead. She has no experience in national affairs, and already brings with her scandal from her governorship, as misusing her power. (I know I don't want this again.).
On the other hand there is a hopeful that lacks experience, but surrounds himself with experience and some of the smartest people available today. he also has a running mate that has experience and knows national affairs and is very qualified to take his place if something happened.

Ive actually given this aspect much thought. despite being an independent I really liked what Joe Biden was saying, as well as his attitude and obvious knowledge and was upset he didn't get the democratic vote. later on happy that Obama chose him as his running mate. Sarah Palin is in my opinion, no way qualified to take office should the need arise, and that scares me.

I know that Obama cant possibly give the US what he is offering, and I know that trying may put this country in an even worse situation. but I have to say that I at least admire his willingness to try (no pun intended) 'change' the US into something better, to try and put us back, not necissariliy on the original path but simply a better path, than the one we are currently walking.

I cant really find anything about McCain or his proposed plans that I admire. (other than being a decorated war hero who survived being a P.O.W. to running for president.) but that doesnt effect my decision.

[séamuis]

actually Texas should make a deal w/ Oklahoma to swap some land - so that the map of Taxes will be more resembling a middle finger gesture

but don't you know that Texas doesn't like Oklahoma, and sure as hell doesn't want to add its land to our sacred Texas soil? and we sure as hell aren't going to give the sooner state any of our hard earned land. Long live the Texas Republic!





ok, back to reality. your right it would look like Texas is giving everyone else the bird. that could say so much....

[khardur]

Whether you're a republican, democrat, independent, or neither- you have to take any news shown on "Al Jazeera" with a grain of salt...

On the whole "we are not a socialist system" argument. That's a load of mularkey. Believe what you want. You would like to think that, but look at what has been happening with all the mortgage giants, insurance companies and big banks on Wall Street... Government is bailing them out. Would there be severe consequences if they were all allowed to fail? Sure... But do you hear anyone crying socialism when we, the taxpayers, bail them out? No... not when it bails out their own companies - but they'll cry about having more regulation even while taking the government's money. Look at what AIG did days after getting $85 billion to help prop themselves up, their execs took a $200,000 vacation/spa whatever you want to call it.
Take other things - social security, unemployment benefits, disability benefits - are those not socialist policies? They take from those who are working and making money, and pay money to those who aren't. Would you get rid of those programs because they're not capitalist?

And just so you know I'm not just following the party line of the democrats, I'll give some info on what I consider myself:
I'm an independent myself, having voted for Bush the first term (sorry, Al Gore screwed it up during the debate when he walked over to Bush and stared down at him - it was a Darth Vader-esque moment, and that absolutely changed my vote...)

The second time around I already didn't believe any of Bush's garbage anymore and voted for Kerry. Too much disdain for authority and checks and balances, disregard for rules already in place (and that didn't stand in his way at any rate, but he disregarded them anyway) - and no accountability for their screw-ups.

This time around I'm voting for Obama. McCain's extremely negative ads have swayed me, along with his choice of a running mate, and the fact that the next president might have to pick two Supreme Court justices - knowing how Palin feels about abortion rights in the case of rape and incest, I have to cast my vote against that. Because she may just become president and have a chance to influence those decisions.

Either way, I'm glad to see people get so excited about an election - too much apathy toward the system in the US, I know the two party system could use a major overhaul, but since we know that's not going to change anytime soon - I don't care who you vote for, the fact that you get out and vote for the candidate of your choosing is really your duty.


Edit: sorry if I jumped around, I've been running on very little sleep. And if I offended anyone, I didn't mean it, I'm just expressing my opinion, as is everyone here.

[RoxnDox]

The red state/blue state is another smokescreen also. If you look at the numbers the difference is very close most of the time, 49% to 51% or similar which could change easily. I live in NY which is considered a liberal/democrat state by the media but the different regions are quite different in their politics. The stereotypes don't fit. Large states like Texas and NY with equal mixes of urban/suburban and rural/small towns can easily change color on those maps depending on things like voter turnout and local issues. I wonder.....if the present economic meltdown had happened 9 months ago would we have the same choices in the election we have now? The media considered Ron Paul a nut but now they are looking back and realizing he called it right. People are angry and scared and I don't think the old political smokescreens are going to work well this time around. McCain seems to have sold his soul to the republican machine to get the nomination, he's not the same guy who ran in 2000. Obama seems to be promising pie in the sky to everybody and anyone with common sense knows he can't do what he says, even if he wants to. In past elections I have voted for alternative candidates like Ron Paul in 88 and Ross Perot. Reality is that either McCain or Obama are going to get the job even if I don't like the choice. I kind of lean toward Obama because he is more levelheaded and willing to change if he sees that his plan isn't working. Still, i'm not sure. I'll decide on nov. 4.

The whole stinkin red/blue divide is an artificial oversimplification of a spectrum into a binary state... See maps like http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/countymaplinearlarge.png for a far more accurate picture... As for me, I am on vacation, out taking pictures at a fami9ly gathering with my Pentax, and SCREW POLITICS until I am forced to return to the daily grind...

Jim

[Rico]

On the flip side a video from progressive NYC.

[séamuis]

On the flip side a video from progressive NYC.

holy effin' crap...that's some serious propaganda right there.

[navcom]

holy effin' crap...that's some serious propaganda right there.

And the Al Jezeera one isn't? They both are.

Obama is a communist (who is also a secret muslim) ready to take over as dictator and McCain is a racist that is going to starve old people and take away children's school lunches.

If you are old enough to remember, if elected, Reagan was going to secretly start World War III within a month after he was inagaurated...oh, and also starve old people. Clinton was a secret communist also ready to take over as a dictator...black helicopters and all.

Let's get back to reality. We have two Americans running for the presidency....

Obama is the liberal, left, socialist-type, democrat-party candidate, McCain is the conservative, right, capitalist-type, republican-party candidate. Both have different views of what path they feel America should follow. That's why we have an election and have opposing views.

We can argue about the degree that each candidate fits their profile (i.e. how far left Obama is or how far right McCain is), but at the end of the day, this is really our choice as Americans...a choice between these two Americans. And the last time I looked, an American president is not a dictator. He is just one leg of a three-legged stool. A president has power...he is the commander-in-chief of the military and has the bully-pulpit. But the purse belongs to Congress as does the ability to make laws. And the decision on whether those laws are constitutional belongs to the Supreme Court.

If you are of the liberal bend, you will most likely vote for Obama. If you are of the conservative bend, you will most likely vote for McCain. If you are somewhere inbetween, you will choose the one that most closely aligns with your personal beliefs. That's how the race will be decided.

But while the race is running, the fur will fly. Just remember...there are idiots on all sides of a political race. There are racists on the left and the right. There are totalitarian-types on the left and the right. There are rude and angry people on the left and the right. And both sides are trying to "define" the other side by their "extremes". It's how politics plays out. No regulation or "campaign reform" law is going to change that, short of suspending the First Ammendment.

....speaking for myself, I cannot WAIT for this political season to finally be OVER!

[séamuis]

And the Al Jezeera one isn't? They both are.

I don't believe I ever stated or even implied in any way that it wasn't. just that I felt that the NYC video was much worse. and personally I don't see how it simply being Al Jezeera has anything to do with it, that could have been any TV network and the end result would be the same.

[navcom]

I don't believe I ever stated or even implied in any way that it wasn't. just that I felt that the NYC video was much worse. and personally I don't see how it simply being Al Jezeera has anything to do with it, that could have been any TV network and the end result would be the same.

No insult to you implied. Sorry if it came across that way. I was just saying that propaganda exists on both sides. I am a conservative so I view the first video as huge propaganda and consider it worse, especially from a source that has proven to be so anti-American and hate-filled that many in the Arab world have shunned it. And they have insulted the left in American too on occasion. They love to make it seem that those few loose screws on both sides of the isle in America are really the majority of us. It's simply not true just as it is not true in other countries.

Likewise those on the left will view the NYC video as worse because of their views. The video was shot by their opponents after all; McCain supporters. Both are propaganda and should be taken as such.

I remember seeing a news clip a couple years back with Joe Lieberman after he decided to be more "republican" than "democrat". There were many from the left hurling Jewish hate-speach about him that would make the Al Jezeera video look pale in comparison. Does that mean that if you support the left, you are a racist...or at the very least, supporting racism? I don't think so.

Personally, I don't think either political persuasion is racist and we shouldn't convict any political ideology based on a few idiots amongst it's ranks.

We all just need to keep in mind that we can all get emotional when our political views come to play and to try to keep tethered to reality by not falling into the political version of Y2K fear-mongering. We are all in this together. Here in the US, we may be members of different parties or political persuasions, but after it's all over, we are ultimately all still Americans and hopefully still friends.

As a conservative, if Obama wins, I'm not going into the streets to riot or throw a toddler tantrum. I survived LBJ, Carter, and Clinton. The left survived Nixon, Reagan, and Bush. Life goes on and I for one will still be struggling to take just one professional-looking photo (why is it so darn hard for me!?).

[deejjjaaaa]

I assure you that most in my community will not rush to socialism for security.

they will if the salary will be better ... but I am not talking about socialism - I am talking about the fact that they just can't get a good permanent, full time, salaried job here (in USA - not in USSR)... and I want to clarify that I am not considering ind. contractors like some IT people are working as small business owners - it is not a business really... if you run a pizza parlor - it is a business, if you are an Oracle DBA working on a contract assignment as an ind. contractor being paid on 1099/C2C basis, etc - it is not a business...

[Peter Zack]

Well the video was shot in Ohio and as you can see from the following maps, Ohio is not part of America or the United States of Canada.

http://jesuspolitics.typepad.com/jesus_politics/images/jesusland.jpg[/IMG]

I'm not going to wade into this mess and only opened the thread out of curiosity. Wish I hadn't.

Sure Canada is closely tied to The USA and generally we make good neighbours. Since I travel to the USA for work quite often, I have many friends in the USA both in person and electronically. I have watched in horror from this side of the border as a great country has consumed itself over the last decade or so. I only hope that whomever takes over can put things both domestically and internationally back on the right track and restore the country to the sanity it once had.

But I want to state, for the record, that I find this quoted post, completely arrogant and offensive.

[reeftool]

I will be glad when this election is over. I feel the need to scrape something off my shoes everytime I see another political ad, video or whatever. That NYC video was almost funny. These are the same people who on sept 12, 2001 would have gladly turned the whole middle east into a parking lot.
CycloneBandDad....I hear you! I'm on vacation too and taking pictures also between getting the house ready for winter and other fall chores. I took my kayak down the river yesterday to enjoy the last bits of fall foliage and forgot about the whole world for a while.