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11-09-2008, 06:59 AM   #826
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Your responses have made it clear to me that the plain criticism of something within / missing from the U.S. Constitution is not "un-constitutional" as such.
No problem! And you are correct...something missing is not unconstitutional. That is the "negativeness". It DOES tell the federal government what it cannot do. That was the original point. It's the states that should have the greater power as the 10th ammendment says:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

On the point of democracy. The US was never set up to be a "true" democracy, which many today seem to forget. It was set up to guarantee personal freedom equally, and in a true democracy, the majority will always rule and could easily over-rule personal liberty. A bill of rights would not be enforceable. The Bill of Rights exists to protect the individual and the minority from the possible "whim" of the majority. Thus we are a federalist republic with democratic "tendencies", not a true democracy.

11-09-2008, 03:30 PM   #827
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QuoteQuote:
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If we're a center-right country, how is Indiana a blue state?

...The only age range that supported McCain was 65 and older. For obvious reasons, that's a tough group to base your future around.
Link.


And here's a quote regarding what is personally my biggest issue - the 'dumbing down' the Bush administration and the Rovian campaign strategies (which bled into governing strategy) have brought us:

QuoteQuote:
The truly poisonous legacy of the past eight years is one that spread to much of society and will therefore be much harder to undo: the utter contempt with which those in power viewed inconvenient facts, empiricism and science in general.
Link.



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Last edited by jsherman999; 11-09-2008 at 03:41 PM.
11-09-2008, 04:24 PM   #828
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
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Again, you can think what you want and believe what you want. US politics are as changing as the tides...always have been.

The media has ALWAYS told us how conservatives are bad, conservatism is over, people don't like conservatism, conservatives are evil and their policies will drown puppies and smash flowers. Explain to me how an ideology (conservatism) that gets such bad press could possibly survive for so long unless it has support? Many people just ignore the media's obvious bias. It's all propaganda. What are they going to say? They don't like us and they don't want us to win! Are they going to admit we even exist???

After both of Reagan's elections, they were bending over themselves to try and explain that it just has to be some other reason. Same thing after all the conservative victories of the 90's. Believe what you want.

As I said before, look at how the politicians run their elections. Obama didn't go to the left to win a national election. Quite the contrary...he struggled hard to be defined as a centrist. Running as a liberal may work in some liberal parts of the country at a local level, but for a national election, he ran as conservative as possible for the left-leaning guy. If what you say and read is so true and the country is just flocking to desert the right and moving so far to the left, he would be running way to the left as well.

You can go out on the internet and find information to support just about any cause or position. I've been a conservative for well on 40 years. I've seen all this before...over and over and over and over again.

Everytime the liberal wins, we are told it's over for the conservatives and they should learn to just disappear and forget about it. Of course they are going to say this!!! That's what they want us to do! But everytime a conservative wins, they were just lucky or we need to do away with the electoral college or the Republicans "bought" the vote or some other excuse. I've been quite sick of always having to defend myself agains unwarranted attacks and slander, while my opponents continue to get a pass. It's very easy to be liberal and promise people you will give them gifts from the public trough (other people's money). It's a bit tougher to convince them that it's in their best interest to refuse such gifts if we want to continue to enjoy our freedom. It was a tough sell for the founding fathers as well, but they fought hard to be understood and to convince the people of the necessity of it.

Many people have bought the notion that we need to trade our freedoms (in the form of our money, property rights, regulations, etc.) for what we are told is better security or a better "safety net". It's easy sometimes to convince people that they can have this or that because we are going to make the rich guy pay for it or we are going to make your evil neighbor pay for it, or we will just magically make more money to pay for it.

He who thinks he can trade freedom for security will soon find he has neither. I will never ever part with this moral belief....ever. Our founders believed it and warned us about it. Men and women have given their lives for these freedoms. But in many ways , we are ever-so-slowly electing to reintroduce a form of slavery upon ourselves...not slavery to a plantation, but slavery to the whim of the party in power at the federal level...either party. We are not completely there, but you can see huge danger signs.

We are told that in order to fix our problems, we need to send more money and power TO Washington...that THEY can fix all our social and finanical ills with just this one more program or if we just turn this or that industry over to them. WTF!!! It's the gradual centralizing of power and money IN WASHINGTON that has created this monolithic waste of American resources and freedoms. As a conservative, I believe we need to limit that power as much as possible so all ideologies can flourish. Just because the opposition won a couple elections does NOT change my ideology. If it did, I wouldn't be much of a person.

Obama won because he made his case and people are sick of Bush and want a change. People voted for Reagan for many of the same reasons. Did it mean that because a conservative president won in 1980 and 1984 that liberalism was dead? Did it mean that when the Republicans took back both houses of Congress in 1994, just two years after a liberal president beat out a popular war-time president, that liberalism was dead? How about the fact that they won even more seats in 1996 and 1998? The media just kept making excuses for all of them. Now the same thing has happened to the Democrats. They've taken back the Congress and now the presidency. And we are told that is because "conservatism" is dead or finally dying out.

OK, whatever. Just keep believing what the media feed you. I can't change your mind.
11-09-2008, 07:36 PM   #829
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QuoteOriginally posted by navcom Quote
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Obama won because he made his case and people are sick of Bush and want a change. People voted for Reagan for many of the same reasons. Did it mean that because a conservative president won in 1980 and 1984 that liberalism was dead? Did it mean that when the Republicans took back both houses of Congress in 1994, just two years after a liberal president beat out a popular war-time president, that liberalism was dead? How about the fact that they won even more seats in 1996 and 1998? The media just kept making excuses for all of them. Now the same thing has happened to the Democrats. They've taken back the Congress and now the presidency. And we are told that is because "conservatism" is dead or finally dying out.

OK, whatever. Just keep believing what the media feed you. I can't change your mind.

Were actually fundamentally in agreement - the country wasn't moving left in 1976 or 1992 or 1996 really an more than it was moving right in 2000 or 2004 (or 1980, for that matter.)

Obama simply sold Center-Left better than McCain could sell Center Right.

Its the candidate, stupid. And his/her machine, which is really an extension of the candidate, an extrapolation of him/her upwards into the organizational entity.

The point of my recent postings has been to try to show you that the typical post-loss reaction - move further left or move further right - may make the base feel better about the loss, but it's not the correct path to take.

It's the candidate, stupid. Find one that can sell your bill of goods better and flat-out kill the other organization on the ground and in the air.

It has nothing to do with the country moving to or being center-right or center-left.



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