[jawats]

I saw a new lens announced for Pentax, which appears to be a premium version of a 70-210 F/4 by Tamron. It will retail at $1,100. Fairly recently, Sigma (and probably Tamron?) are both out of the direct K-Mount business. This leaves Pentax and a variety of smaller third-party makers producing K-mount lenses, such as Laowa, Irix, Rokinon, Samyang, and Mitakon.

Recently, a friend of mine asked about different dSLR options, and after long consideration, I found that I couldn't recommend a Pentax camera, mainly because I'm not sure if the brand will be something that a beginning photographer can afford, and the potential for a long-game disappearance of the brand, mount, or both.

Also, would it kill Ricoh to offer a base SLR with a decent lens for new photographers? Nikon is selling a new D3500 with 18-55 and 70-300 lenses for $499.95. Canon is selling a Rebel T7 for $399.99 with a, 18-55 lens. Surely, those bodies are no match for the K-70 ($799.95 with 18-135mm lens), but for the photographer just getting into the game (younger, or unsure of footing, or on a more limited budget), Pentax seems to demand a premium. And the K-70 is Pentax's only crop sensor offering now. The potential K-3 replacement seems to have been pushed back without much discussion as to why.

In the end, I'm not sure if this is a lament or a rant, but there it is.

[Adam]

Certainly valid points; but, I think the main reason for this is that entry-level DSLRs simply aren't nearly as profitable/popular as they used to be. Also, you can get a used premium camera, which will outperform these entry-level bodies, and high-quality legacy lenses, at a better price. If you're looking to become serious about photography, I think these are important considerations. Unlike before, folks who are just experimenting can now bust out their phones and get most of what a DSLR could do just a few generations ago.

Yesterday I realized just how good the legacy lens proposition is. I was shooting some portraits for a friend and quickly realized that the D FA 28-105mm wasn't cutting it. I dusted off the M 50mm F1.4 and it worked wonders- despite costing just a tenth of what the zoom was

And the K-70 is Pentax's only crop sensor offering now.

And the KP.

[reh321]

I saw a new lens announced for Pentax, which appears to be a premium version of a 70-210 F/4 by Tamron. It will retail at $1,100. Fairly recently, Sigma (and probably Tamron?) are both out of the direct K-Mount business. This leaves Pentax and a variety of smaller third-party makers producing K-mount lenses, such as Laowa, Irix, Rokinon, Samyang, and Mitakon.

Recently, a friend of mine asked about different dSLR options, and after long consideration, I found that I couldn't recommend a Pentax camera, mainly because I'm not sure if the brand will be something that a beginning photographer can afford, and the potential for a long-game disappearance of the brand, mount, or both.

Also, would it kill Ricoh to offer a base SLR with a decent lens for new photographers? Nikon is selling a new D3500 with 18-55 and 70-300 lenses for $499.95. Canon is selling a Rebel T7 for $399.99 with a, 18-55 lens. Surely, those bodies are no match for the K-70 ($799.95 with 18-135mm lens), but for the photographer just getting into the game (younger, or unsure of footing, or on a more limited budget), Pentax seems to demand a premium. And the K-70 is Pentax's only crop sensor offering now. The potential K-3 replacement seems to have been pushed back without much discussion as to why.

In the end, I'm not sure if this is a lament or a rant, but there it is.

1. Pentax said several years ago that it was going to aim at the "premium" end of the market, which may conflict with the values of those who have viewed as an inexpensive brand.

2.Considering current prices, I would have a hard time recommending a K-70, but I could very much recommend a KP, which is a real deal.

3. Yes, no one is currently discussing the "K-3ii replacement"; I am expecting something in the next month or so, but it will be much more expensive than the KP {probably twice as much}.

[MarkJerling]

I saw a new lens announced for Pentax, which appears to be a premium version of a 70-210 F/4 by Tamron. It will retail at $1,100. Fairly recently, Sigma (and probably Tamron?) are both out of the direct K-Mount business. This leaves Pentax and a variety of smaller third-party makers producing K-mount lenses, such as Laowa, Irix, Rokinon, Samyang, and Mitakon.

Recently, a friend of mine asked about different dSLR options, and after long consideration, I found that I couldn't recommend a Pentax camera, mainly because I'm not sure if the brand will be something that a beginning photographer can afford, and the potential for a long-game disappearance of the brand, mount, or both.

Also, would it kill Ricoh to offer a base SLR with a decent lens for new photographers? Nikon is selling a new D3500 with 18-55 and 70-300 lenses for $499.95. Canon is selling a Rebel T7 for $399.99 with a, 18-55 lens. Surely, those bodies are no match for the K-70 ($799.95 with 18-135mm lens), but for the photographer just getting into the game (younger, or unsure of footing, or on a more limited budget), Pentax seems to demand a premium. And the K-70 is Pentax's only crop sensor offering now. The potential K-3 replacement seems to have been pushed back without much discussion as to why.

In the end, I'm not sure if this is a lament or a rant, but there it is.

My first, second and third Pentax cameras were bought secondhand. For any young person wanting to get into photography I'd generally suggest buying secondhand so as to get into the hobby cheaply. A K-5 can be a very affordable first camera. I would avoid the K30 or K50 cameras, but that's just me.

The "long-game disappearance" of any brand, mount or both is not guaranteed. As a Pentax enthusiast I see no reason not to recommend Pentax equipment. Furthermore, who knows what a beginner can afford? Some beginners can afford 645Z cameras!

Having said that, I'm sure a Nikon D3500 with two lenses would be a good starting point. I think Ricoh has realised that, as a relatively small player in the DSLR market, there's very little money to be made with entry level cameras. You'd have to sell huge volume to make that market work. So, for them to make money and ensure the survival of the brand it's far better to manufacture premium products. The K-3 replacement camera will not be a budget camera and will likely sell at a level somewhere between the price of the K-1II and the KP, but most likely positioned closer to the K-1II.

I'd promote Pentax for the huge variety of good old lenses that can be had very cheaply and which can make any K-mount camera a useful tool for many, many years to come.

[jawats]

My first, second and third Pentax cameras were bought secondhand. For any young person wanting to get into photography I'd generally suggest buying secondhand so as to get into the hobby cheaply. A K-5 can be a very affordable first camera. I would avoid the K30 or K50 cameras, but that's just me.

The "long-game disappearance" of any brand, mount or both is not guaranteed. As a Pentax enthusiast I see no reason not to recommend Pentax equipment. Furthermore, who knows what a beginner can afford? Some beginners can afford 645Z cameras!

Having said that, I'm sure a Nikon D3500 with two lenses would be a good starting point. I think Ricoh has realised that, as a relatively small player in the DSLR market, there's very little money to be made with entry level cameras. You'd have to sell huge volume to make that market work. So, for them to make money and ensure the survival of the brand it's far better to manufacture premium products. The K-3 replacement camera will not be a budget camera and will likely sell at a level somewhere between the price of the K-1II and the KP, but most likely positioned closer to the K-1II.

I'd promote Pentax for the huge variety of good old lenses that can be had very cheaply and which can make any K-mount camera a useful tool for many, many years to come.

I look at entry-level cameras as sort of a loss leader. Get them in with 1-2 pieces of mid-range glass and a basic body. Then, when people begin to look at next models, they see the glass re-investment as prohibitive.

Of course, the same holds true for used, as you suggest. Many people do want a warranty, but you can even price those out and buy them from a third-party when you purchase equipment. (Of course, if I get a Squaretrade one for my used K-1, it's $224).

[aslyfox]

with the opportunity to use the marketplace ( since you are in the US ), did you consider looking there for an " entry " option.

it seems to me that over the time I have been at the forums, there have been plenty of " bargains " both on camera bodies and lenses

just a thought

[c.a.m]

Recently, a friend of mine asked about different dSLR options, and after long consideration, I found that I couldn't recommend a Pentax camera, mainly because I'm not sure if the brand will be something that a beginning photographer can afford, and the potential for a long-game disappearance of the brand, mount, or both.

I think I can understand your lament.

Our son recently asked me about several options for his first 'real' camera. His requirements included about 80% video shooting. I was also thinking that he wouldn't want to go through the hassle of calibrating his lenses for autofocus, as is often required for DSLRs. Furthermore, as a mid-20's guy, he's grown up with touch-screens and electronic displays, and he had used a fairly high-end Sony mirrorless camera at his work. So, he ended up getting a Fuji X-T3 and its kit lens, which I endorsed wholeheartedly. I had a chance to play with it for a week, and concluded that it's a sweet system.

I don't think that there is any problem with recommending a brand other than Pentax if the prospective buyer's requirements can't be met by the Pentax line. Certainly, if there's a hard budget constraint, then the other options you've mentioned would fit. As you imply, though, there's a trade-off between budget and performance, and Pentax offerings are what they are -- high quality products that produce excellent images, diverse formats, and a range of excellent lenses, albeit not at rock-bottom prices

As for the "long-game" survival, that's a hard one to predict for Pentax or any of the others. I think that it can be disheartening in some instances to see the near-continuous barrage of new products coming online from some (most?) of the other brands, while Ricoh Imaging dribbles out a couple of items each year, if that. Add to the mix the periodic firmware releases from other brands -- better AF! better exposure! better video! -- that seem to excite many users. However, I don't believe that there has been any credible evidence, analysis or business intelligence that would suggest that Ricoh Imaging intends to shutter Pentax.

I hope your friend settles on an affordable system that launches a long-term interest in photography!

- Craig

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Last edited by c.a.m; 01-20-2020 at 06:18 PM. Reason: mention Pentax quality

[jawats]

with the opportunity to use the marketplace ( since you are in the US ), did you consider looking there for an " entry " option.

it seems to me that over the time I have been at the forums, there have been plenty of " bargains " both on camera bodies and lenses

just a thought

Just to clarify, I don't need an entry-level option, but I did mentioned the possibility of gently used to my friend. I have a K-3 (looking to sell) and a K-1, presently.

[dbs]

Pentax has become a niche product now. It is a photographers camera, not a latest and greatest can do everything else..oh and can take pictures aswell camera..
Marketing to the rest of the world other than Japan doesn't seem to bother Ricoh.
Out of all the popular companies only ' Pentax' is truly backward compatable with its products.
Pick the tool for the job and go with it, but don't ask a tool to do what it wasm't designed to do.
Pentax will be around aslong as people buy there products.
Can I recomend Pentax...well I made my choice thats all you can do.


Dave

[BigMackCam]

With respect, threads like these - especially when they cast doubt on the future of the brand - do nothing to strengthen the reputation of Pentax with the wider public; because, make no mistake, these discussions are publicly readable... they turn up in search engine results all the time

That said...

I don't think I'd recommend Pentax specifically to a new(er) DSLR photographer either, though for different reasons. K-mount is, nowadays, a system one gravitates to for a variety of reasons and value propositions, more easily recognised after gaining some experience. I won't repeat them because they've been discussed ad nauseum. Needless to say, most folks buying Pentax know why they're buying it.

I'd probably recommend the new DSLR photographer picks up an inexpensive older body and kit lens (or two) from any of the brands, because any of them will do at that stage of the journey... and then I'd leave it to them to develop some experience and make their own grown-up choices thereafter, based on what becomes important or of interest to them. If pushed, rather than give recommendations I would simply give honest pro's and con's for each system, because every system has them - and Pentax has plenty of pro's, despite the con's.

Nikon and Canon are obvious "safe" choices for the newbie... and with older kit, it's easy enough for them to chop and change later if necessary. I started with Nikon some time ago and moved to Pentax for my own reasons. I haven't switched since...

I hope that prospective Pentax buyers who come across this thread will also see the wealth of brand-positive threads in these forums. Most of us are pretty satisfied with our chosen system...

[aslyfox]

Just to clarify, I don't need an entry-level option, but I did mentioned the possibility of gently used to my friend. I have a K-3 (looking to sell) and a K-1, presently.

sorry I misunderstood

[lesmore49]

Over the past decade two of my friends chose Pentax digital DSLR as their camera. It was their decision, not mine in any way.

These two buddies don't know each other, never had a conversation with each other...but decided independently ...to get Pentax and both did so...for the same reason. That reason being that I had a Pentax and that I would mentor them through the photography learning process . As one said, if they got a Canon...they would have to learn on their own and it's pretty handy for me to be just a phone call away to explain something about the Pentax system...vs the Canon system...which I don't know as well as Pentax.

I did recommend a Nikon D3400 to a teenager. I know the kid's mom and she asked me to recommend a camera within a $ 500 budget, with lens. I recommended the Nikon as it was within the price range, has a rep for reliability/ durability and he has been snapping away with little let up in the past few years. I recommended the Nikon for a number of reasons...one was that he could go to the store, actually handle it, see if it suited him ergonomically ...and that it was available right now...in a local store...as they wanted to get it fast.

[stevebrot]

With respect, threads like these - especially when they cast doubt on the future of the brand - do nothing to strengthen the reputation of Pentax with the wider public; because, make no mistake, these discussions are publicly readable... they turn up in search engine results all the time

Yep...and since Ricoh/Pentax does not monitor posts on this site, the complaint does nothing other than encouraging much rolling of eyes on the part of some readers and much typing of rants on the part of others.


Steve

[luftfluss]

Nikon's been doing just great with their myriad of entry-level offerings, eh?

Fuji, while building their X system, did not have a "loss leader" option.

Sony has avoided it.

Panasonic basically just lets a 5 year old model linger at $500. Olympus released their latest "entry level" camera solely for the East Asian market.

There's not much of a point for a "loss leader" camera because so many buyers - perhaps even most buyers - wind up not investing further in the system.

[brewmaster15]

To the op.. your friend came to you for advice on camera options because he knows you are a camera user.. Advise him on what you know...Pentax. If you use other brands too... advise him on those.As for anything you dont have direct experience on, do both yourself and your friend a favor...Dont advise them on what you dont know by experiece. You use pentax.. you know pentax.Give and honest assessment of any weakness pentax has as you see it. Let them research the other brands.

I can talk pentax hours on end...Ive shot it for years.There are things I love about and things I am not keen on.I know squat about other brands.I dont shoot them.Have little interest in them.When I get asked about cameras..I talk about what I know...Pentax.That way I am honest with them and myself.

Better yet you have a k3 you are looking to sell? why not let your friend use it a bit and draw their own conclusions. Take them.out and show them what that camera can do.. it may meet all their needs in a dslr.


Also..Lesmore49 said something I think.is really valid and what I have done as well..

These two buddies don't know each other, never had a conversation with each other...but decided independently ...to get Pentax and both did so...for the same reason. That reason being that I had a Pentax and that I would mentor them through the photography learning process . As one said, if they got a Canon...they would have to learn on their own and it's pretty handy for me to be just a phone call away to explain something about the Pentax system...vs the Canon system...which I don't know as well as Pentax.

Thats a critical point that should not be overlooked when you are talking with someone you know about camera systems and you might be called on to mentor..

AL