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02-06-2020, 06:50 AM   #16
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Another main reason on the european market: a lot of potential customers do not own a credit card here and even more hesitate to use it.
Credit card only services for privat cautomers loos about 70% of the customers in Germany (i think the statistics our marketing looked up was from 2015 though, it is changing slowly).

02-06-2020, 06:55 AM - 1 Like   #17
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Unfortunately my case is a bit unique. I am not authorized by my supplier to sell to other countries as they have distributors there. My shopping cart is not configured to accept out of country transactions to prevent this. To get around this the buyer had a USA address place the order, to be shipped to a transhipping service to go out of the country. The paypal payment receipt for the payment did not show the country of origin. When I called paypal and asked, they would not tell me where the funds originated. As a seller I need this info. I pressured the paypal rep into admitting they were out of the country by questioning the fees.. Based on the published fee structure there had to be a cross border fee there. Upon doing a net search on the email , the origin is Mexico. To me this is fraudulent which I know it technically isn't but the fact Paypal would not tell me where the funds came from, plus that they have no problem keeping the fees after enabling this purchase is just plain wrong in my book. Others may have a different take on it but if on the receiving end, I am sure the sentiments would be different. My only option is refund the order, eat the fees, block the buyers IP, and hope they don't do it again from another location in the usa. For me as the seller I literally have no way to stop this from happening again and again. Paypal does not recognize this as being a problem as they get their fees either way. The buyer will get their money back either way, and I get stuck with the bill. .. So yes... I am not feeling any warm and fuzzies towards paypal right now.

Al

Last edited by brewmaster15; 02-06-2020 at 07:00 AM.
02-06-2020, 07:10 AM - 2 Likes   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by dlh Quote
. . . Still, the best protection you can get will be through your local bank. Consider the fees a cost of doing business, and overhead that will be covered by the purchase price.
so either paypal charges you or the bank

as they say -

" there ain't no such hing as a free lunch "
02-06-2020, 07:54 AM - 1 Like   #19
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Paypal is not a non profit or a charity. Their fees are what enables them to stay in business. There is always the choice to use to use another form of payment

02-06-2020, 08:12 AM - 1 Like   #20
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In Canada I can send and receive Interac E-Transfers for free through my bank. They're pretty quick, however there's no buyer protection, so you have to trust the seller.
02-06-2020, 01:35 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by reeftool Quote
Paypal is not a non profit or a charity. Their fees are what enables them to stay in business. There is always the choice to use to use another form of payment
AS their founders are Billionaires, I don't think that they are having any trouble staying in business. I am willing to pay for a service, but if there is no transaction, why should they keep all of the cash? A minimum fee like if your credit card bill has less than 1 or 2 dollars in interest accrued, the card company charges a minimum finance charge of X amount. Pay pal is just trying to screw over folks who buy and sell from other than normal retail channels, and some who do!

I suspect some retailers are going to give Paypal the old heave ho unless they get a different user agreement! (I suspect that this will be the case.)
02-06-2020, 03:33 PM - 2 Likes   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Wow. I just Google'd this to confirm what the customer service rep told you, and yes - it appears this practice has just begun.

.................. I suspect it may even affect eBay business, since PayPal is pretty much the de facto standard for eBay payment processing (or, at least, it has been)...
In the modern part of the world, read the continent, banks support a system we call transfers using the IBAN. IBAN stands for international bank number. Payments between international banks are quite often executed within a day. No fees no waiting till PayPal decides to clear payment.
The IBAN number is unique for the account it is given for.

PayPal is a PITA, a bunch of individuals who think they can continue to mislead clients who have a PayPal account.

Example:

I sold a 40 year old brandnew Hasselblad SWC to a gentleman in Hong Kong.
Despite the fact he has an account with HSBC, one of the largest international banks, he does not understand how to transfer the money into my German account.
Reluctantly I offer him Paypal, Paypal was not offered on Ebay.
I clearly state no goods will leave for Hong Kong unless payment is in my bank account.
Paypal has different ideas.
They want me to ship the camera to Hong Kong, give them the tracking data and wait till Paypal sees fit to release my money after 2-3 weeks.
Should the buyer not be happy with the camera he bought I get a camera back with signs of prior use. No thank you.

This ends with negative feedback on ebay from the buyer who claims he paid for the camera. No he did not, he paid PayPal. I did not see any money. The friendly interference from Paypal also costs me 195 euro, yes it was an expensive camera.
I can go on but will leave it as it is. PayPal is run by persons who have no idea what a correct way of doing business is.
Probably university or business school educated people without any idea what happens in the real world.

---------- Post added 02-06-20 at 04:10 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Paypal isn't responsible when a deal falls through. The Paypal fee is a transaction fee, not some guarantee of buyer euphoria. When you sell something a transaction takes place. Just because a return/refund happens does not negate that a transaction took place, it actually means that two transactions took place.
Nonsens. Paypal is not just a financial service. PayPal claims it serves both buyers and sellers to excute deals advertised at ebay.
PayPal has a strong tendency to come up for buyers while neglecting the interests of sellers.
If a deal falls through why should the seller bleed for that?

Paypal claims it also looks after the interests of the seller.
So far I have not noticed any help from PayPal to me as a seller.

A pity Adyen did not take over from Paypal. that would have been a good opportunity to come up for sellers.
For me as a seller on ebay Paypal is unacceptable. Too many crooked tricks from PayPal that a seller with 100% positive feedback can easily do without.
I am not interested in buyers who demand Paypal because nine out of ten these buyers are notorious troublemakers.

---------- Post added 02-06-20 at 04:19 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by dlh Quote
And if you'd read the "terms of service" contract, well, as a lawyer, my opinion is, no one in his right mind would do business with Paypal.
With all respect for lawyers, you do not need tbe educated at law school to understand that nobody in his right mind should even consider PayPal as an option to transfer money.

Last edited by Fluegel; 02-06-2020 at 03:38 PM.
02-07-2020, 03:56 AM   #23
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I tend to use Paypal. Obviously the issue is primarily one of trust. Particularly if you are the buyer in a transaction, if you just transfer money to someone else's bank account for goods to be sent, if nothing arrives, you have little recourse. I do think Paypal and Ebay are more buyer friendly than seller friendly at this point. Which is why buyers like to use them and sellers find them frustrating to deal with, but not sure what the solution is for that.

02-07-2020, 04:09 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by SSGGeezer Quote
AS their founders are Billionaires, I don't think that they are having any trouble staying in business. I am willing to pay for a service, but if there is no transaction, why should they keep all of the cash?
[...]
All the service they provide, a kind of secure money flow with the posibility to stop it when a party involved does not hold its part, were provided. When there is a money backflow, they even habe double the transactions.
They provided all service, therefore they get the money. I know people are used to get service for free today, paypal is part of the reason why, but for me this is the only logical business decission.
02-07-2020, 04:15 AM   #25
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If you are transferring money to someone you know and trust, then you can forego Paypal and their fees. Even here on the Forums Marketplace, I would tend to use Paypal just in case things go badly.

Obviously, Paypal's fees are high and their terms may feel unreasonable to some. Perhaps this is an opportunity for some entrepreneur to form a competing line of credit that could offer the same protections and service for less. But for right now, they charge what they do because they have minimal competition in that space.
02-07-2020, 05:05 AM - 2 Likes   #26
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I agree completely with @Fluegel, and would add that banks, at least in the U.S., provide a level of protection because of federal statutes and regulations; often you can clear things up if you have a serious problem with a bank, by sending a complaint to the appropriate regulatory body (of which there is a confusing array, admittedly, and you've got to know you're complaing to the right one for your financial institution). Secondly, if I recall correctly, if you have a problem with Paypal, you have to go to mandatory arbitration in Santa Clara, California, and you'll probably have to pay for a "split-the-baby" decision.

Here's an example of the difference in how banks and Paypal behave: I once represented a client who'd bought a saddle for his son's pony off of EBay, payment through Paypal. The client was in Virginia, the seller in Missouri. The saddle was advertised as a particular brand and model of saddle made by a company in Ohio. It was priced at about a third the usual price of a genuine, new product that met the description. (There's a clue!) Seller snapped up the "bargain" and Paypal got the money. When the product was delivered, client figured out that it was a cheap, "knock-off" imitation of the real thing made in Mexico, of a sort that usually sells for a third of the "bargain price". I filed suit in Virginia under local consumer protection laws; the seller didn't bother to show up or send in a letter to the court, no request for a change of venue or any such thing. Default judgment awarding treble damages and attorney's fees (a $32,000 judgment on a $450.00 transaction). Seller blew off any demand for payment for a couple of years. Attempting to domesticate the judgment in Seller's home county met with refusal by the protective local judge (contrary to U.S. law on the subject). So I did a garnishment against his Paypal account. Paypal was required to file an answer with the court showing whether they held any of Seller's money, and if so, how much. They ignored the process, as well, and blew me off for another couple of years. A perusal of Paypal's "investor relations" information, including SEC filings, showed that they used Wells Fargo as their main bank for paying employees and such. And here's the kicker: when Paypal blew me off, I got a court order saying they were liable for the whole amount. So I garnished Paypal's Wells Fargo account. I got the money in less than a week.
02-07-2020, 05:19 AM - 1 Like   #27
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eBay is divorcing PayPal

QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Wow. I just Google'd this to confirm what the customer service rep told you, and yes - it appears this practice has just begun.

Clearly, it's up to PayPal how it runs its businesses, and it's quite at liberty to put such practices in place. But, equally, we customers are at liberty to choose our payment methods, and I think a lot of folks will cease to use PayPal because of this. I suspect it may even affect eBay business, since PayPal is pretty much the de facto standard for eBay payment processing (or, at least, it has been)...
EBay is replacing PayPal with Adyen as the main way to pay ? Quartz
02-07-2020, 06:03 AM   #28
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Perhaps they won't suck as badly.
02-07-2020, 06:20 AM - 1 Like   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by SSGGeezer Quote
Perhaps they won't suck as badly.
That would make for quite the marketing slogan...
"Adyen - we don't suck as badly!"
02-07-2020, 04:36 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I tend to use Paypal. Obviously the issue is primarily one of trust. Particularly if you are the buyer in a transaction, if you just transfer money to someone else's bank account for goods to be sent, if nothing arrives, you have little recourse. I do think Paypal and Ebay are more buyer friendly than seller friendly at this point. Which is why buyers like to use them and sellers find them frustrating to deal with, but not sure what the solution is for that.
It happens quite often a buyer wants to use Paypal after he or she has closed a deal.
Often with lame excuses like the bank charges me a fee to transfer money. Wrong! Euro payments are free of charge in Europe.
Next thing is the so called buyer protection from Paypal. That is caused by the former strong campaign from ebay to persuade buyers to use PayPal.
All my ads at ebay state explicitly NO PAYPAL. PayPal is totally useless as there are better and safer ways to pay. They are free of charge.

---------- Post added 02-07-20 at 04:44 PM ----------

That is a strong rumour but sofar no signs of a break between PayPal and evil bay.
The story about Adyen replacing Paypal started about two years ago.
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