Gee, this sure is a fun thread.

For those of you outside the USofA, and its posessions, who are complaining that sellers in the US don't want to ship to your country.

Any item listed for sale CONUS only, is the decision of the seller. Whatever their reasons for doing go are theirs and theirs alone.

Bottom line. If I have something I want to sell, and since it belongs to me, I'll sell to whoever in the hell I want to and ship only where I wish. Which is the same right every other seller has.

If you're outside my selling area, TOUGH! Deal with it and get over it!

[Gooshin]

If you're outside my selling area, TOUGH! Deal with it and get over it!

the internet, theoreticaly, is a place where walls are broken down and borders are washed away.

it is called the world wide web for a reason, it brings people togethers and breaks down barriers, allowing people greater access to either intellectual or physical goods.

YOU, put something on sale on the world wide web because you want to reach a greater market, but limit yourself to only your american buddies based on nothing more than a phobia of paperwork and "getting scammed"? How arrogant is that, pull your head out of your ass!

its not "the american wide web"

you're not on "US pentax forums"

so stop being silly and fill out some extra forms and help out your photography brothers and sisters.

or stick to craigs list and local classifieds if you want an american only public.

better yet, go make another pentax forum, and block all non US incomming IP's. Lets see how well you do.

[gokenin]

For me its not so much that I am xenophobic I tend to look at it as cost prohibitive. I have had several people ask about buying lens from overseas and when I have quoted the price from USPS to ship it to them that was the last I ever heard from them. I try to keep the cost of what I sell at a reasonable price but to me it doesnt make sense to ask someone to pay $20 or more in shipping when the lens is selling for less than $200.
I have shipped to canada and you can ask peter about it I was more paranoid about him getting it than he was since I cant track it like I can with domestic shipping where I use UPS. So its a personal think on my part but if you are willing to pay the shipping and me asking you if you have it yet then I will ship it to you.

the internet, theoreticaly, is a place where walls are broken down and borders are washed away.

it is called the world wide web for a reason, it brings people togethers and breaks down barriers, allowing people greater access to either intellectual or physical goods.

YOU, put something on sale on the world wide web because you want to reach a greater market, but limit yourself to only your american buddies based on nothing more than a phobia of paperwork and "getting scammed"? How arrogant is that, pull your head out of your ass!

its not "the american wide web"

you're not on "US pentax forums"

so stop being silly and fill out some extra forms and help out your photography brothers and sisters.

or stick to craigs list and local classifieds if you want an american only public.

better yet, go make another pentax forum, and block all non US incomming IP's. Lets see how well you do.

What part of "Deal with it and get over it!" did you not understand?

[Gooshin]

What part of "Deal with it and get over it!" did you not understand?

this thread asks the question "why certain people sell only to their US counterparts"

and your best answer is "deal with it"

the iron logic! i love it. Ignorance and close mindedness at its best.

[Substitute]

Gooshin we've never met, but I love your point of view!
Living in France right now, I have to deal internationally, last week a guy made me an offer on a lens then backed off since I was in France which was specified in my post btw...
And today, another one sold me an accessory stating that shpping to France was much less costly and hard than he thought....oh well...
the wider the marketplace the better the prices!

[navcom]

this thread asks the question "why certain people sell only to their US counterparts"

and your best answer is "deal with it"

the iron logic! i love it. Ignorance and close mindedness at its best.

Correct. The original question was why certain people won't sell outside the CONUS. That was followed by several folks answering that question. Then out of the blue you jumped all over Americans for being whiners. Calling Americans whiners doesn't answer the OP's question? Who's close minded here? Sorry you hate Americans so much.

I can't speak for the forum marketplace but I can speak as an American business owner. I ship internationally on a regular basis. There is customs paperwork involved, sometimes several pages. For many folks, this is not something they want to deal with. Many folks simply don't know HOW to do it and it's a beaurocracy they don't want to deal with, like waiting in line to get your drivers license renewed or having teeth pulled.

You can yell at them for being idiots and not wanting to, but the fact remains...some folks simply don't want to, and they have a right not to. It's their loss.

Now myself, I happen to love Canadians!

[bwield]

I have sold (and bought) my fair share of pentax stuff on this site as well as others. I have bought from overseas and sold to any where someone requested because, well I didn’t really care who would give me money for my stuff!
However, why would people only sell to CONUS?
The "WHY" is irrelevant! Sure it's frustrating sometimes but that’s life.
It is true the ‘World Wide Web’ has opened doors to globalization and the free flowing of goods and services (As Gooshin has pointed out), but… ALL it has done is opened that door.
There is no rule, provision or any kind of requirement to sell to any person or to any country. Why don’t some people want to ship outside US? Does not matter. Because they do not have too / do not need a reason too.
This, loosely, also goes for people that complain that they “pm’d” first for an item or that they were skipped in line. It is unequivocally up to the seller who they sell to. Period. No explanation required.

P.S Since the Web is a place where, theoretically, people come together, break down walls, “allowing people greater access to either intellectual or physical goods”… etc. Then perhaps we should not be ostracizing and debasing those that choose, well within their rights, to whom and to where they sell their goods!

[Gooshin]

P.S Since the Web is a place where, theoretically, people come together, break down walls, “allowing people greater access to either intellectual or physical goods”… etc. Then perhaps we should not be ostracizing and debasing those that choose, well within their rights, to whom and to where they sell their goods!

its within the sellers right to choose who he/she deals with.

but i would like to hear a better argument than "deal with it" to support that decision...

especially if:

the buyer pays for whatever the shipping charge is
the buyer has value (ebay rating, known personality, etc)
you get the buyers money in your account!

now, i understand if you dont want to ship a case of guns to some guy in afganistan, atleast there is some red flags going up there.

or if you are selling a motorboat in Kentucky and some guy in Peru wants a slice of that

but we are dealing with small size low weight internationally accepted goods here, lenses and cameras!





shipping internationally as part f a business structure and income filing is one thing. Shipping "gifts" to your friends and families falls under slightly different set of rules.

following that logic the excuse "i'm too lazy to fill out a form" is rather lousy.

Americans use and abuse the rest of the world, they are the worlds number 1 consumer and importer of the rest of the worlds junk, they expect low prices, low tarifs, fast shipping, no problems, no hassles right here right now.

Is it too much to ask for something in return?

I guess it is. :ugh:

Then out of the blue you jumped

read again, it was not out of the blue, it was a direct answer to another poster, who seems to think that the rest of the world should just "deal with it".



lets say tommorow Japan and China decide not to sell anything to America, are you guys just going to "deal with it"? (rhetorical question)

[Gooshin]

FWIW I participate in another photo forum where European sellers typically prefer to deal only with EU buyers.

Chris

was this before or after the US dollar plummeted?

[navcom]

lets say tommorow Japan and China decide not to sell anything to America, are you guys just going to "deal with it"? (rhetorical question)

Yep! You got it! Japan and China have that right if they so wish. That's part of the definition of a free market...the freedom to leave.

Whether someone chooses to ship international or not is their choice. It doesn't mean it makes financial sense, but then freedom to choose doesn't mean freedom from failure. To many, the hassles of dealing with customs forms and procedures warrant limiting their market exposure. Many feel they have a large enough market in the CONUS without going international. I would imagine this applies to other countries as well. Someone in, say, Britian certainly has the choice to limit their buyers to Britian.

If they want to limit their market exposure, that's their choice, right? Or are you proposing that we force anyone who sells in the marketplace to sell to anyone without choice?

[Gooshin]

Yep! You got it! Japan and China have that right if they so wish. That's part of the definition of a free market...the freedom to leave.

Whether someone chooses to ship international or not is their choice. It doesn't mean it makes financial sense, but then freedom to choose doesn't mean freedom from failure. To many, the hassles of dealing with customs forms and procedures warrant limiting their market exposure. Many feel they have a large enough market in the CONUS without going international. I would imagine this applies to other countries as well. Someone in, say, Britian certainly has the choice to limit their buyers to Britian.

If they want to limit their market exposure, that's their choice, right? Or are you proposing that we force anyone who sells in the marketplace to sell to anyone without choice?

i propose we make it easier for people to understand what goes on with international shipping, such as the threads that pop up from time to time. (actualy there is one active right now) that explain the process.

so far this year i have made a number of photography related transactions with people that stated "conus", but i asked them to ship to canada, most of the time they wrote "well i have never done it before, is itmore complicated?" and then i went over it with them and made them see that its not some sort of black magic.

its the stigma (that you mentioned twice now) that the procedure to ship a lens (or camera) internationally carries the same burden as tree cutting in the Zahara that we need to qualm. Maybe people wont be so paranoid once they see the light, instead of just telling people to "deal with it".

[navcom]

Americans use and abuse the rest of the world, they are the worlds number 1 consumer and importer of the rest of the worlds junk, they expect low prices, low tarifs, fast shipping, no problems, no hassles right here right now.

Is it too much to ask for something in return?

Hmmm, so giving the rest of the world money in return for their products and expecting the same in return for our products isn't enough? What do you want? In business, you exchange a product or service for money regardless of what country you live in. That's the deal. It's good for both sides. It's called trade. How is it that either side "owes" the other side something above and beyond this? If you don't like the deal, don't do the trade. If you don't like the trader, trade with someone else.

As far as expecting low prices and quick shipping et al, I seem to see alot of the same demands from folks in other countries in my business. I don't see how this is an exclusively American trait. I guess all those international customers that demand a lower price or quicker service from my business are really Americans in disguise. The difference is I try to satisfy their business needs regardless of where they live, not complain about their whining or stereotype their culture.

[navcom]

i propose we make it easier for people to understand what goes on with international shipping, such as the threads that pop up from time to time. (actualy there is one active right now) that explain the process.

so far this year i have made a number of photography related transactions with people that stated "conus", but i asked them to ship to canada, most of the time they wrote "well i have never done it before, is itmore complicated?" and then i went over it with them and made them see that its not some sort of black magic.

its the stigma (that you mentioned twice now) that the procedure to ship a lens (or camera) internationally carries the same burden as tree cutting in the Zahara that we need to qualm. Maybe people wont be so paranoid once they see the light, instead of just telling people to "deal with it".

I can go for that! I think not knowing how or not willing to deal with the hassle is behind much of the CONUS-only shipping. It's not hard to ship international from the US but it is additional work and procedure.

But also understand they have the right to sell to who they wish, regardless of the reason behind it.

[Gooshin]

I can go for that! I think not knowing how or not willing to deal with the hassle is behind much of the CONUS-only shipping. It's not hard to ship international from the US but it is additional work and procedure.

But also understand they have the right to sell to who they wish, regardless of the reason behind it.

i have a right to not get up for an elderly person on the bus and give them my seat, but that right doesnt abstain me from being an ass.