[mroeder75]

I'll bet there are legions of lawyers out there who will disagree with that. (For the right price, of course.)

Actually, I am one. I had to look up HIPAA coverage a couple years ago for someone. Tonight I just did an internet search instead of going through the pages and pages of the rules. I believe this website portrays it correctly. https://www.hq-law.com/blog/employment-law/health-privacy-not-protected-by-hipaa-at-work/I believe it applies to medical providers and their employees, and it does not apply generally to employers other than health plans, health care clearinghouses, and self-insured employers.

[Rondec]

Actually, I am one. I had to look up HIPAA coverage a couple years ago for someone. Tonight I just did an internet search instead of going through the pages and pages of the rules. I believe this website portrays it correctly. https://www.hq-law.com/blog/employment-law/health-privacy-not-protected-by-hipaa-at-work/I believe it applies to medical providers and their employees, and it does not apply generally to employers other than health plans, health care clearinghouses, and self-insured employers.

I don't know if it applies, but I do know that most employers are pretty reticent (for obvious reasons) to identify specific workers with illnesses or what illness they have. Even if they can't be fined under HIPAA, it seems as though it could be taken pretty negatively by the employee in question. I'm sure they'd rather leave it up to the health department or whoever is tasked with doing contact tracing.

[Rondec]

Is COVID getting weaker? An Italian physician says maybe, https://www.newsweek.com/italian-doctors-claim-coronavirus-getting-weaker-qu...xperts-1507843

Others aren't so sure, Claims of a Weaker COVID-19 Virus Disputed

If I were going to guess, I just think we are doing better at testing and catching less sick people as well as the super-ill as we did early in the pandemic. Those people don't have as bad disease, but when they give it to older people the results can still be devastating.

[Fluegel]

People under 40 are quite safe although there were some exceptions.
Casualties under 20 are quite rare less than 0.3% of younger people died of the virus.

I never heard of anything so small that was powerful enough to kill hundreds of thousands of people and leave many others with serious health problems.
The virus will not loose its deadly properties. I suppose the spreading of the virus is now more under control.

[SpecialK]

I don't know if it applies, but I do know that most employers are pretty reticent (for obvious reasons) to identify specific workers with illnesses or what illness they have. Even if they can't be fined under HIPAA, it seems as though it could be taken pretty negatively by the employee in question. I'm sure they'd rather leave it up to the health department or whoever is tasked with doing contact tracing.

I did the 6-hour Johns Hopkins contact tracing certificate online. You can not disclose the name of the infected person even to the contacts you are trying to track down.

My impression of contact tracing is that it is a lot of work (20 minute phone calls, bad or vague leads, partial information) for possibly small results. And you have to follow up with everyone another day. Plus, you have only a small window of opportunity of a couple days between infection and onset of symptoms.

[Rondec]

I did the 6-hour Johns Hopkins contact tracing certificate online. You can not disclose the name of the infected person even to the contacts you are trying to track down.

My impression of contact tracing is that it is a lot of work (20 minute phone calls, bad or vague leads, partial information) for possibly small results. And you have to follow up with everyone another day. Plus, you have only a small window of opportunity of a couple days between infection and onset of symptoms.

It is such a difficult thing overall. My wife's sister and her husband were just diagnosed with COVID. They had relatively mild symptoms -- he ran a high fever for about three days and she just for a day. But the week before they had symptoms they did everything normally -- shopped, went to church, went to work. There is no telling who they had contact with during that time.

They had contact with my parents-in-law too and now my mother-in-law doesn't understand why she should stay in for the next two weeks since she feels fine and will wear a mask. They don't have to go out -- we can get groceries and things for them, but the idea that you can spread something if you don't have symptoms is beyond them.

[gaweidert]

It is such a difficult thing overall. My wife's sister and her husband were just diagnosed with COVID. They had relatively mild symptoms -- he ran a high fever for about three days and she just for a day. But the week before they had symptoms they did everything normally -- shopped, went to church, went to work. There is no telling who they had contact with during that time.

They had contact with my parents-in-law too and now my mother-in-law doesn't understand why she should stay in for the next two weeks since she feels fine and will wear a mask. They don't have to go out -- we can get groceries and things for them, but the idea that you can spread something if you don't have symptoms is beyond them.

Well maybe some good news out of WHO. They are now saying that the chances of an asymptomatic person spreading the disease seems extremely low. Your mother in law should stay in though. Better safe than sorry.

[Rondec]

Well maybe some good news out of WHO. They are now saying that the chances of an asymptomatic person spreading the disease seems extremely low. Your mother in law should stay in though. Better safe than sorry.

WHO doesn't know. The CDC has guessed that 30 percent of COVID spread is pre-symptomatic. Are they right? It is awfully hard to know. I would certainly prefer that we only have to worry about folks who have symptoms,but honestly, that doesn't seem right. People are pretty good at staying at home when they have symptoms. People without symptoms don't think they need to wear masks, much less stay home.

We are certainly seeing a plateau right now -- number of cases aren't going up but they aren't exactly falling in many areas either,

Viral shedding among pre-symptomatic COVID-19 patients finds study

[swanlefitte]

Yes Asymtomatic and PREsymptomatic are two different things that are lumped together.

The WHO agrees that pre-symptomatic carriers are infectious, and adds that there is also a possibility - although little evidence so far - that people who are asymptomatic may also transmit the virus.

Explainer: Are asymptomatic COVID-19 patients safe or silent carriers? - Reuters
June 3 article.

[Rondec]

Yes Asymtomatic and PREsymptomatic are two different things that are lumped together.

The WHO agrees that pre-symptomatic carriers are infectious, and adds that there is also a possibility - although little evidence so far - that people who are asymptomatic may also transmit the virus.

Explainer: Are asymptomatic COVID-19 patients safe or silent carriers? - Reuters
June 3 article.

I saw that. Forbes had another breakdown of this, WHO Says Asymptomatic Spread Of Coronavirus 'Very Rare,' But Experts Raise Questions

Basically, people who never develop symptoms probably don't transmit the virus. People who eventually do develop symptoms probably do transmit the virus for at least a few days before the develop symptoms. And many people when questioned deeply about symptoms that they might have had after the fact can come up with a few mild symptoms that they might have had at the time of transmission.

Honestly, I wish the WHO hadn't made the statement the way they did because it gives people a false sense of security when the reality is the only way to know the difference between asymptomatic and presymptomatic is to wait a week.

Edit: I would add that I don't really trust post-hoc symptom analysis. "When did your symptoms first start?" "Well, I think maybe I had a scratchy throat last Wednesday, but I thought it was just allergies but I thought something was a bit off on Monday, but I couldn't put my finger on what..." The whole point is really that many people have very mild symptoms that they discount, do normal activities and then spread virus until they get something more significant.

[MarkJerling]

My wife's old boss in South Africa just died from Covid. First person we know who's been killed by the virus.

[Rondec]

My wife's old boss in South Africa just died from Covid. First person we know who's been killed by the virus.

I'm sorry to hear that Mark.

[MarkJerling]

Thanks.

[swanlefitte]

Edit: I would add that I don't really trust post-hoc symptom analysis. "When did your symptoms first start?" "Well, I think maybe I had a scratchy throat last Wednesday, but I thought it was just allergies but I thought something was a bit off on Monday, but I couldn't put my finger on what..." The whole point is really that many people have very mild symptoms that they discount, do normal activities and then spread virus until they get something more significant.

Absolutely. I think i posted this about 90 days ago.
The fraction of influenza virus infections that are asymptomatic: a systematic review and meta-analysis
Perhaps the most comprehensive study ever on asymptomatic from 2015.
In conclusion, the true asymptomatic fraction of influenza virus infections may depend on how infections are identified, and we found quite different estimates of the asymptomatic fraction in two different types of studies.

It showed that how you define, report, etc changes the results to trivial proportions and here is what they found.

We identified considerable variability in estimates of the asymptomatic fraction based on cohort studies with point estimates from 0%–100%

[scratchpaddy]

Less than four weeks into re-opening, things continue to get worse here in Arizona. The number of positive Coronavirus tests has more than doubled since the stay-at-home orders were lifted on May 15th. The governor claims there's no trend in the rising number of cases, saying it's all due to increased testing.

However, Banner Health, the largest hospital operator in the state, reports that it's nearing full capacity, and the number of patients on ventilators has quadrupled since that same date. A study by the University of Arizona predicts that medical facilities statewide will run out of capacity by early July.


Code Red? Arizona hospitals could run out of beds by July, public health expert says


Meanwhile, masks are an increasingly rare sight in public. Traffic is back to normal. Each weekend, people escape the heat of the city to flood the mountain towns around the valley like Sedona and Payson, lining up outside ice cream shops and packing all the campgrounds.


It's like February/March all over again. Heading full speed towards a cliff. What cliff? Everything's fine! Keep spending, the economy needs you!