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03-20-2020, 10:04 PM - 2 Likes   #406
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At least twice now I've heard television reporters call some of the preventative measure "the new normal". There is nothing normal about it.

03-20-2020, 10:21 PM - 3 Likes   #407
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QuoteQuote:
It is just the flu! Its another strain, but in the US more have died to the regular flu than to this. Its not the plague
This is not another strain of influenza. It is related to it, as they both fall under the coronavirus grouping, but not “just another strain”. A dog is just another strain of the canids. This is more like comparing a pig and a cat - yeah, they are both mammals, but other than that...
03-20-2020, 11:45 PM - 2 Likes   #408
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Perspective

185,197 Deaths caused by water related
diseases this year

802,572,830 People with no access to
a safe drinking water source

---------- Post added 03-21-20 at 06:51 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by nocturnal Quote
I called into a garage there to get milk for my mother, I wouldn't let the sales person touch it and scanned it myself and paid with non touch card. He sighed and said 'everybody is over-reacting, it's just the flu'...

The above is beyond belief but not really considering the amount of morons in society, especially here, this is the reason why some people need to be ordered and not asked to do something.

In the world of 24 hour news and 24/7 connectivity I still couldn't believe what I was hearing but I'm glad I never let him handle the milk.

Still today I seen hairdressers and barbers open, how can you keep your distance getting a hair cut? At 45 I currently have the longest hair in my life anyway and could join the foo-fighters or something like that.
How many people prior to the sales person do you think had touched the milk, yet your only contact and reaction is against that poor sap trying to do their job? I think this a sad aspect of the situation, the breakdown of common civility

As an aside I don't think Dave will invite you into the band based on your hair length alone

Last edited by timb64; 03-20-2020 at 11:57 PM.
03-21-2020, 01:23 AM - 2 Likes   #409
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QuoteOriginally posted by timb64 Quote
Perspective

185,197 Deaths caused by water related
diseases this year

802,572,830 People with no access to
a safe drinking water source

---------- Post added 03-21-20 at 06:51 AM ----------



How many people prior to the sales person do you think had touched the milk, yet your only contact and reaction is against that poor sap trying to do their job? I think this a sad aspect of the situation, the breakdown of common civility

As an aside I don't think Dave will invite you into the band based on your hair length alone
I was civil to him and wished him well...

How much contamination from cash handling and handling goods customers handed to him to scan has the guy handled all evening, he clearly wasn't washing his hands either unlike the supermarkets where the assistants wear gloves, use sanitiser and wipe down the touch screens after every customer using self check outs.

It's a sad aspect that you don't understand contamination and how infectious this disease is nor my situation keeping my vulnerable mother safe, therefore keeping myself as safe as possible.

Yesterday my neighbour 2 houses away told me his entire family is under self isolation as his son contracted Covid-19, probably from working in the school, he is also vulnerable with his weight and diabetes, his wife, other son and his daughter now all quarantined and out of work.

Well I am a guitarist and old Nirvana fan who learned quite a few of their songs and covers years ago and can still play 'em

Go and ask Italian doctors, UK doctors, chinese doctors and in a short time USA doctors about perspective. Due to the failure of governments to plan and act has landed us in a much worse situation.

What would you do instead? Just let it spread as much as possible because other people die of other causes? Do you even care about others even if you think you have nothing to lose?

03-21-2020, 01:29 AM - 5 Likes   #410
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QuoteOriginally posted by jack002 Quote
It is just the flu! Its another strain
It's rather more than that, with respect.

Preliminary studies estimate the R0 to be between 2 and 3 compared to influenza's 1.3, so its transmission rate is much higher - and we're not even close to getting it under control. The incubation, treatment (where necessary), recovery and viral shedding periods are longer. The mortality rate appears to be way higher - by how much is uncertain, but current estimates suggest it's at least ten times deadlier. We don't yet know the seasonal profile of the virus, so can't assume it will ease off in the summer months like flu. In fact, there are so many unknowns. And we have no vaccine.

It's not the plague, no... and thank goodness for that; but it's currently far more dangerous to us than influenza. Stating that the latter has killed more people, whilst factually correct at this early stage, paints an artificially rosy picture of a rapidly escalating situation
03-21-2020, 01:35 AM   #411
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QuoteOriginally posted by VSTAR Quote
The UK government leaders believe they are smarter than all the other scientists and do not believe they are susceptible in the general pop to the virus. Until this AM the only recommendation, to my knowledge, was for the sick and elderly to stay home and be careful. But the rest of the pop.."herd" protection...or herd infection...since even the scientists did not understand what the PM meant. Now that the infection rate and # deaths are increasing they are finally changing their plan. Unfortunately it may be 1-2 weeks too late. Nobody knows why the UK decided not to ramp up anti-viral control/reduction like other countries.
Thank you for the helpful information, I live in the UK and had no idea there was a problem. I’ll be sure to check here for accurate news and advice.

(rolls eyes, shakes head)
03-21-2020, 01:39 AM - 4 Likes   #412
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In Spain Covid-19 has killed more people in a month (25 days to be precise) than the flu in any bad year and than traffic accidents last year. The "it's just the flu, bro" crowd is on the level of anti-vaxxers in terms of ignorance.

Seriously, I and my family (my mother used to be a doctor, my brother is studying medicine, my girlfriend is a pharmacist) personally know a lot of active healthcare workers who update us on the situation. It's hell on Earth for them these days, there are not enough PPEs and ICUs are filling up more than with the flu... Italy is already triaging on arrival. Spain might reach that point in some hospitals soon.


Last edited by Serkevan; 03-21-2020 at 01:45 AM.
03-21-2020, 02:56 AM - 6 Likes   #413
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QuoteOriginally posted by jack002 Quote
99% of Those Who Died From Virus Had Other Illness, Italy Says - Bloomberg

---------- Post added 03-20-20 at 08:14 PM ----------



It is just the flu! Its another strain, but in the US more have died to the regular flu than to this. Its not the plague
I'm sorry, but it is quite a bit worse. The rate at which cases are doubling in the United States is extremely rapid. Some of that is that testing has come on line, but it is clear that it is running rampant in New York City.

The average person who needs a ventilator for this will be on it for eight days before they either die or are able to come off of it. We have less than a million hospital beds spread around this country and far fewer ventilators.

The issue isn't really even deaths, although they could easily number around a million, but the fact that the health care system isn't equipped to deal with this. Do you think anyone in New York can get a heart valve replacement surgery or coronary artery bypass surgery right now? Much less any kind of non-emergent procedure. In a situation where COVID sucks up all of the resources, everything else is supposed to wait until it clears. Many will die from this and other non-related things simply because the health care system is red lined and there is no reserve to take up the slack.

Maybe there will be a miracle cure (several have been mentioned in this thread already), but it takes time to test and produce those sorts of things and in the meantime a lot of people are going to get sick, sicker than with influenza.
03-21-2020, 03:02 AM - 13 Likes   #414
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QuoteOriginally posted by jack002 Quote
It is just the flu! It's another strain
No. It isn't. It is another RNA virus, but from a completely different family from influenza.
QuoteQuote:
in the US more have died to the regular flu than to this
It's way too early to make that call. We've learned to live with influenza. It's cyclical, and much less infectious and much less virulent than CoViD-19.
I'd give the USA about two weeks and we can revisit your misguided opinion.
QuoteQuote:
Its not the plague
The plague (a bacterial infection, not a virus) would have been a non-event in the antibiotic era. That argument is nonsense.
03-21-2020, 03:15 AM   #415
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
. . . the fact that the health care system isn't equipped to deal with this. . . . the health care system is red lined and there is no reserve to take up the slack.. . .
and one other key factor being the people staffing our health care system

they are not like the rest of us - they are at extreme risk of exposure and more and more without proper protective gear

may need to be isolated if there has been possible exposure which severely affects the ability of the health care system to operate for us due to lack of staffing

and yes, frankly without the necessary equipment to treat the effects of the infection in many cases

yes this pandemic will pass

and not be the end the world

but it is clear it will affect all of us economically

it is, as far as I know, truly historic

we need to wish them all the best and to thank them for their sacrifices
03-21-2020, 03:25 AM - 2 Likes   #416
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perhaps an interesting diversion ? [ not my image ]



I certainly learned something from the article

Secrets Behind the Creepy Plague Doctor Mask and Costume | Ancient Origins

IMHO, the article is better than the video


Last edited by aslyfox; 03-21-2020 at 03:34 AM.
03-21-2020, 03:34 AM - 2 Likes   #417
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
No. It isn't. It is another RNA virus, but from a completely different family from influenza.

It's way too early to make that call. We've learned to live with influenza. It's cyclical, and much less infectious and much less virulent than CoViD-19.
I'd give the USA about two weeks and we can revisit your misguided opinion.

The plague (a bacterial infection, not a virus) would have been a non-event in the antibiotic era. That argument is nonsense.
Exactly. Yersinia is a bacteria and is treatable with existing treatments. This is viral and most of the time if you see a doctor with a virus they say something like, "It's viral. Just hang in there and in a few days you'll feel better." Even the antiviral agents for influenza -- Tamiflu and the others -- only shorten the duration of symptoms about 24 hours. But we don't have treatments that target Coronaviruses.

The whole issue, as you say, is that this is a novel infection for humans. Some of our immune systems will be able to handle it, but some not so well.

As far as the whole "pre-existing condition" thing that has been mentioned a couple of times in this thread, it seems as though if you take medicine for about anything people are saying that you have a preexisting condition and are therefore a higher risk to this illness. But that means a huge number of folks are in the "high-risk" camp -- more than we would normally say for an influenza out break. I certainly don't think of hypertension as a risk factor for get a bad case of influenza, but here, it seemingly is.

---------- Post added 03-21-20 at 06:40 AM ----------

For some reason, I keep thinking of W B Yeats poem The Second Coming.




Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
03-21-2020, 03:43 AM   #418
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years ago I got pneumonia

I was given pills and sent home with advice that most likely the medicine would be ineffective if it was viral pneumonia since the medicine could only affect bacterial pneumonia

QuoteQuote:
Pneumonia is a common lung infection where the lungs’ air sacks become inflamed. These sacs may also fill with fluid, pus, and cellular debris. It can be caused by viruses, fungi, or bacteria.
- Bacterial Pneumonia: Symptoms, Causes, and Treatment

________________________

personally I am scared but resigned to the virus

what will be will be [ this does not mean that I don't take precautions ]

however the economic disruptions I see starting throughout the world is more scary to me

I fear that even more and think its effects will be more wide spread

I'm just weird I guess

Last edited by aslyfox; 03-21-2020 at 03:50 AM.
03-21-2020, 03:48 AM   #419
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QuoteOriginally posted by VSTAR Quote
The ibuprofen story is interesting in that the WHO blew it when one spokesperson stated not to take it and the next statement said there is no evidence to support it."Earlier reports said a spokesperson had cautioned against using ibuprofen to manage symptoms of the illness caused by the coronavus until WHO experts could investigate.Ibuprofen is a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory medicine, or NSAID. It's sold under a number of brand names, including Advil and Nurofen. In addition to treating pain, it's often used to manage fever associated with various viral or bacterial infections.WHO clarified its position Wednesday evening in a tweet saying "at present, based on currently available information, WHO does not recommend against the use of ibuprofen."
I think that counter-indication had more to do with the age of those most likely to be infected. In people over 60, Ibuprofen can cause internal gastric bleeding which can be rather problematic in people that age.


QuoteOriginally posted by VSTAR Quote
the current recommendation is that ACE-2 for hypertension should not be discontinued
interesting story about ACE 2 inhibitors, ACE 2 appears in epithelial cells which appears in the gut all the way to the lungs. Increasing the amount of ACE-2 in lung tissue helps balance out the angiotensin system which gets a bit depleted when CoViD-19 appears, the practical upshot if up-regulating ACE 2 expression is that it appears more lung tissue is spared the damaging effects of CoViD-19.
03-21-2020, 03:54 AM   #420
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You know the world has issues when Fujis X100V is 20% off a few weeks after release.
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