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04-04-2020, 01:56 AM   #1366
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Are you sure?

Cystic fibrosis gene protects against tuberculosis | New Scientist

Genetic cause for HIV resistance linked to plague or smallpox

The Role of Host Genetics in Susceptibility to Influenza: A*Systematic Review

It's hard to believe that all humans are perfectly uniform in the various polypeptides that pathogens use to infect us. And it's even less likely that all humans are perfectly uniform in the various metabolic, immunological, and homeostatic systems that modulate the consequences of a particular type of infection.
I know, I know (that's why I mentioned favism and sickle cell disease as mutations that protect against malaria). While "largely irrelevant" was hyperbolic the fact remains that, despite those genetic adaptations, healthcare and other life conditions have a much bigger impact in the outcome of diseases in this day and age (which is what I referred to when I made the footnote about a subject with a current syllabus ). Of course genetics have played a critical role throughout history.

EDIT: the flu study says that the results are inconclusive from what I can see
Mice studies are very important but sometimes our genome shows its weirdness (as Digitslis very well said) and it's not necessarily reproducible in humans even for the same gene family.


Last edited by Serkevan; 04-04-2020 at 02:19 AM.
04-04-2020, 02:00 AM   #1367
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Good old doctor visits at home

Seems to me that if the allowed Doctors to administer the life saving Medicine at home as preventive measure the could quit flooding the hospitals. of coarse I MEAN hydroxychloroquin and the z-pack,
04-04-2020, 02:13 AM - 2 Likes   #1368
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QuoteOriginally posted by niceshot Quote
Seems to me that if the allowed Doctors to administer the life saving Medicine at home as preventive measure the could quit flooding the hospitals. of coarse I MEAN hydroxychloroquin and the z-pack,
Hydroxychloroquine has enough severe side effects that it's not a good idea to administer it indiscriminately, certainly not as a preventive measure.
04-04-2020, 02:19 AM   #1369
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QuoteOriginally posted by niceshot Quote
Seems to me that if the allowed Doctors to administer the life saving Medicine at home as preventive measure the could quit flooding the hospitals. of coarse I MEAN hydroxychloroquin and the z-pack,
sorry to rain on the parade but those drugs have yet to be proven scientifically as far as I know effective against preventing or abating or curing the infection

there are studies and trials currently underway but as of now, as far as I know, the only thing we know for certain is that there are now shortages of hydroxychloroquin for those who need them for the current prescribed usage and thus those individuals are suffering

I am not sure if that is because of the studies or hoarding or a combination of both

____________________________

as far as myself, despite being in the class of individuals most at risk - age and preexisting conditions, I intend on leaving the house to do walks outside, do photography,depending on the weather

I will go to stores as necessary

in order to help others, although I am not convinced it will protect me, I will wear gloves and a mask when I expect to meet others

at all times when I am outside of my home, I will maintain " social distancing " practices

04-04-2020, 02:22 AM - 1 Like   #1370
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My wife works in a dialysis unit,mostly older patients with lots of preexisting condions.Expectations were once they had one positive case it would spread like wildfire causing multiple fatalities.But so far thankfully there has only been one death and two recoveries.Makes me wonder if the dialysis itself has some good effect on the virus,obviously I know very little about the science in all this but it must be worth investigating further.
04-04-2020, 02:24 AM   #1371
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QuoteOriginally posted by dstar Quote
Good luck with trust IRS or government
They said one day this another day 180 degree opposite. . .
we had a refund coming

already filed the returns and received the refunds
04-04-2020, 02:26 AM   #1372
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QuoteOriginally posted by timb64 Quote
My wife works in a dialysis unit,mostly older patients with lots of preexisting condions.Expectations were once they had one positive case it would spread like wildfire causing multiple fatalities.But so far thankfully there has only been one death and two recoveries.Makes me wonder if the dialysis itself has some good effect on the virus,obviously I know very little about the science in all this but it must be worth investigating further.
I hope you are correct, my aunt receives such treatment

our annual trip to Illinois, to see her over the upcoming religious holiday has, of course, has been cancelled.

04-04-2020, 02:46 AM - 4 Likes   #1373
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Let's be clear that Plaquenil (hydroxychloroquine) and zithromax are no magic antidote. Obviously you will read otherwise on the interwebs, but they have been using them in New York and currently have close to a 3 percent mortality rate (that is likely to swing higher, not lower over time). Beyond which, the idea that something is good for treatment does not equate to it being good for prevention. Somehow people drew a weird line there. If you take an antibiotic every day to prevent respiratory infections, odds are pretty good that you won't prevent any infections, but any infections you do get will be resistant to the antibiotic you are taking.

From what I can tell the Ivermectin is mostly an in vitro study, with a little bit of study using mice. The FDA-approved Drug Ivermectin inhibits the replication of SARS-CoV-2 in vitro - ScienceDirect This isn't to say that it won't be helpful and obviously we are going to grasp onto any straws that could prevent even a single death, but this is certainly early to be talking about as a possible treatment. One news article comments that Ivermectin has effectiveness in vitro against HIV, dengue, and influenza. Which is to stay that in a petri dish it works great, but there isn't an HIV patient on the planet who is taking ivermectin to control his or her HIV.

Vaccines are a year away. I have no doubt that there will be a vaccine and that it will be a big help. But honestly, if and when the virus came back this coming winter, the second time through wouldn't be as bad. No longer would it be a brand new virus for the whole population and some would have at least partial immunity to it.

I suppose testing is part of the answer -- Abbot has just come out with a 15 minute test and that will help considerably with timely results. The trouble now is that the US alone has run 1.5 million tests in the last couple of weeks. It is hard to ramp up production to the levels needed to get that sort of test out there. But even with testing, pretty aggressive quarantine measures are going to be the big thing to get things under control. I have read that in Kentucky, they are now instituting ankle bracelets for people who won't abide by quarantine precautions after they have had known contact with COVID 19 patients. Maybe that is an answer, although I don't know if we have enough bracelets for all of those involved.

---------- Post added 04-04-20 at 06:06 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Are you sure?

Cystic fibrosis gene protects against tuberculosis | New Scientist

Genetic cause for HIV resistance linked to plague or smallpox

The Role of Host Genetics in Susceptibility to Influenza: A*Systematic Review

It's hard to believe that all humans are perfectly uniform in the various polypeptides that pathogens use to infect us. And it's even less likely that all humans are perfectly uniform in the various metabolic, immunological, and homeostatic systems that modulate the consequences of a particular type of infection.
I was interested in this CF gene hypothesis. There was a group of scientists that did an analysis of the population of Brazil, a country where TB is still fairly endemic and compared areas with higher CF gene presence (with higher caucasian heritage) with those that did not have that. They did not find a difference in resistance to TB.

I know that there is always a feeling that a high prevalence of a genetic disease in a population must be due to some comparative advantage in fighting disease or something like that, but with regard to CF, we haven't found it yet. I do wonder if just high levels of intermarriage in small towns in Europe in the Middle Ages ended up producing weird genetic swings that we wouldn't see otherwise. (See presence of hemophilia in the royal families of Europe and some of the interesting genetic diseases found in Amish family groups).

Last edited by Rondec; 04-04-2020 at 03:27 AM.
04-04-2020, 03:16 AM   #1374
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Let's be clear that Plaquenil (hydroxychloroquine) and zithromax are no magic antidote.
. . .
From what I can tell the Ivermectin is mostly an in vitro study, with a little bit of study using mice. . . ..

Vaccines are a year away. . . .

I suppose testing is part of the answer -- Abbot has just come out with a 15 minute test and that will help considerably with timely results. The trouble now is that the US alone has run 1.5 million tests in the last couple of weeks. It is hard to ramp up production to the levels needed to get that sort of test out there. . . . .
I am glad that there are members of the forum who have the advance knowledge needed to debunk rumors and give us accurate information [ although sometimes I do get confused over certain references ]

I am certainly not among those and I hope I have not given that impression
04-04-2020, 03:18 AM   #1375
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
Why do you suppose the best predictor of life expectancy is socioeconomic level? Or why it has been proven time and again that life choices have little to no base in genetics and all to do with upbringing and education?
...
I think we've got a "chicken and egg" problem. I wasn't arguing, nor did I suggest, that "life choices" and "socioeconomic level" have any way been controlled by genetic characteristics; I didn't say anything at all about that issue. I was arguing the opposite, that an individual's susceptibility to infection controls future genetic characteristic of his group by potentially eliminating that person's genes from those available in the pool. Some of those most affected by this virus are children whose immune systems aren't strong enough to make a defense. Those who die from it lacked "fitness"; and that represents an adaptation by the species as a whole to the existence of the changed natural conditions, as those children who live to reproduce will have preserved the genetic characteristics that made them survivable.
04-04-2020, 03:26 AM   #1376
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QuoteOriginally posted by niceshot Quote
Seems to me that if the allowed Doctors to administer the life saving Medicine at home as preventive measure the could quit flooding the hospitals. of coarse I MEAN hydroxychloroquin and the z-pack,
Of the three groups most affected by this virus, hydroxychloroquine would be life-saving as to one (young adults) but probably deadly to the other two (small children and old folks). That's because hydroxychloroquine ("Plaquinil") works by suppressing the immune system, which is why it's approved for one autoimmune disorder (rheumatoid arthritis) and currently being tested for use with others (diabetes, Crohns/coeliac/IBS, etc.). The reason it works with folks with strong immune systems is because it can prevent the cytokine release syndrome which is what's actually killing people. That is to say, it's not the virus that's actually killing people, it's their own immune systems' responses to the virus that's killing them. Sort of like what happens to a person with an allergy to peanuts who eats one - the peanut doesn't kill him, it's the immune system response (anaphylactic shock) that kills him. People who contract the infection because they have weak immune systems (very old, very young, people on chemotherapy, with HIV, etc.) won't get better by suppressing what little immune system they do have, and could possibly make them worse.

Last edited by Unregistered User; 04-04-2020 at 03:39 AM.
04-04-2020, 03:29 AM   #1377
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QuoteOriginally posted by aslyfox Quote
I am glad that there are members of the forum who have the advance knowledge needed to debunk rumors and give us accurate information ...
Yeah, the only problem is being able to tell which is which. My feeling is that one ought to check up with authoritative sources for himself, which is why I have referenced the NIH and CDC websites. And for definitions of things like "cytokine release syndrome", I find I get pretty good stuff off of Wikipedia. The value of this discussion is that it raises questions that a person can use to launch his own research, so he can make informed decisions for himself and his family.
04-04-2020, 03:40 AM   #1378
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Let's be clear that Plaquenil (hydroxychloroquine) and zithromax are no magic antidote.
We read a number of opinions. Some labs do have comparative figures but those are being ignored by other labs that compete and want to do their own research, every new experiments that show positive results is said to lack proper design of experiment, and is followed by new experiments and so on.. Medical research teams compete against each other, none want the other team to get the credit, when one team of research is progressing the other competing research labs say that the results are not valid. In the meantime , it seems that there is a strong correlation between speaking German or drinking beer and a 10 fold reduction in COVID-19 mortality rates.

QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
Hydroxychloroquine has enough severe side effects that it's not a good idea to administer it indiscriminately, certainly not as a preventive measure.
For the side effects of hydroxychloroquine, it's been used for many many year by billions of people , so it's totally mastered by qualified medics. Obviously , Plaquenil 250mg is not the same as a table spoon of aquarium cleaning power.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 04-04-2020 at 03:55 AM.
04-04-2020, 03:40 AM - 1 Like   #1379
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QuoteOriginally posted by dlh Quote
Yeah, the only problem is being able to tell which is which. My feeling is that one ought to check up with authoritative sources for himself, which is why I have referenced the NIH and CDC websites. And for definitions of things like "cytokine release syndrome", I find I get pretty good stuff off of Wikipedia. The value of this discussion is that it raises questions that a person can use to launch his own research, so he can make informed decisions for himself and his family.
oh, trust me

I do independent research I am a " seeker of knowledge " after all

and I take what I find with, as they say, a Large grain of salt

I use wiki as a general source and try to go onto more specific sources if I can

of course it is always hard to determine what weight to give to sources especially when one is not particularly knowledgeable in the field being researched

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just heard on a news source that the Montana N G are screening visitors

here is more info

QuoteQuote:
BILLINGS, Mont. — The National Guard will start screening people who arrive in Montana by airplane or train beginning Friday to help slow the spread of the coronavirus.

Officials say 73 Guardsmen will be deployed to 17 locations in 11 cities.

Guard members will be at airports in Billings, Butte, Bozeman, Great Falls, Helena, Kalispell and Missoula and at train stations in Whitefish, Havre, Shelby and Wolf Point.

Guard members will be taking the temperatures of arriving passengers, notifying them of the state's 14-day self-quarantine for non-work-related visits and referring anyone with a fever to medical personnel. . . .
National Guard to screen Montana visitors starting Friday | KECI

no inspection if someone just drives across the border and the effort is useless if the visitor is asymptomatic at the time

good pr perhaps

effective I have my doubts

Last edited by aslyfox; 04-04-2020 at 03:46 AM.
04-04-2020, 03:43 AM   #1380
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
. . . For the side effects of hydroxychloroquine, it's been used for many many year by billions of people , so it's totally mastered by qualified medics. Obviously , Plaquenil 250mg is not the same as a table spoon of fish aquarium cleaning power.
as I understand it, usage of the drug for prescribed purposes, you are correct

for this new use against the virus that is yet to be determined scientifically by any source as far as I know
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