[Rondec]

Of the three groups most affected by this virus, hydroxychloroquine would be life-saving as to one (young adults) but probably deadly to the other two (small children and old folks). That's because hydroxychloroquine ("Plaquinil") works by suppressing the immune system, which is why it's approved for one autoimmune disorder (rheumatoid arthritis) and currently being tested for use with others (diabetes, Crohns/coeliac/IBS, etc.). The reason it works with folks with strong immune systems is because it can prevent the cytokine release syndrome which is what's actually killing people. That is to say, it's not the virus that's actually killing people, it's their own immune systems' responses to the virus that's killing them. Sort of like what happens to a person with an allergy to peanuts who eats one - the peanut doesn't kill him, it's the immune system response (anaphylactic shock) that kills him. People who contract the infection because they have weak immune systems won't get better by suppressing what little immune system they do have, and could possibly make them worse.

I don't think anyone knows how plaquenil would work against COVID 19, but if it works (I don't think it does), it probably has to do with its ability to block viral replication and prevent the glycosylation of the receptor that the COVID 19 uses to enter cells. The whole immunosuppressant aspect of things is probably a red herring.

But as I said, studies are at best conflicting. The chinese released information showing that in a trial at 7 days there were no differences between hydroxychloroquine and other treatment with regard to viral clearing, but that there was one death in the hydroxychloroquine group versus none in the other.

The reality is that you need a big, double blinded study to really know about this treatment and whether it works (those are going on now in New York). If you have a hundred people with COVID 19 over 70 years old, with the best treatment, your death rate is going to 7 or 8 percent at most. If you take 60 people out of that group and divide them up (as the French study did) in an unblinded fashion and give 15 of them Plaquenil and Zithromax and 15 of them Plaquenil and 30 of them nothing, the end result is at best going to tell you that you need more study. All of the French patients survived. They just said that those on Plaquenil cleared the virus quicker.

This is a nice summary page that summarizes a bit of what we know about chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine. http://www.familyallergyasthmacare.com/2020/03/is-plaquenil-the-magic-drug-for-covid-19/

[biz-engineer]

for this new use against the virus that is yet to be determined scientifically by any source as far as I know

it's a hard thing to do quickly since you have to have a large enough number of patients so that to be able to create various randomly split and large enough subgroups in order to demonstrate statistical significance. By the time effectiveness is demonstrated the epidemic might be over.

[Serkevan]

For the side effects of hydroxychloroquine, it's been used for many many year by billions of people , so it's totally mastered by qualified medics. Obviously , Plaquenil 250mg is not the same as a table spoon of aquarium cleaning power.

The pharmacist next to me says, and I quote, "I have no comments for this". Then there were comments:
-Billions of people? Got a source for that or is it pulled out of thin air?

-Adverse reactions to hydroxychloroquine normally beat "excruciatingly slow, painful death from malaria".

-Risk populations for COVID-19 are also at higher risk of having undiagnosed kidney conditions (or undiagnosed diabetes) that would make an adverse reaction to the treatment potentially very serious.

[aslyfox]

it's a hard thing to do quickly since you have to have a large enough number of patients so that to be able to create various randomly split and large enough subgroups in order to demonstrate statistical significance. By the time effectiveness is demonstrated the epidemic might be over.

we can hope the crisis is over quickly

and of course it takes time to do scientific studies right

I had a friend in college who was the victim of a drug used in the US without proper testing it was given to women during pregnancy and was more common in Europe

she only had arms, one cut off about 3 inches from the shoulder, the other at the elbow and no legs

she was one of the smartest persons I have ever met

after those reactions to the drug were known, the feds changed their rules requiring testing before allowing drugs to be used here in the US

[biz-engineer]

-Billions of people? Got a source for that or is it pulled out of thin air?

Over 40 years, hundreds of thousands of people used it to prevent and cure malaria. So yeah, pretty close to billion. In Africa you can buy those pills at petrol stations, it's available everywhere in case you need it urgently. When you travel to tropical regions your doctor give you a prescription.

I've been on the stuff (hydoxychloroquine) for years. The only side effect I've noticed is tinnatus, the severity of which varies according to the dosage. There is a serious threat of neuropathy with larger doses, particularly retinal neuropathy. If you're taking high doses or for a long time, you need to see an opthamologist a couple times a year.

So, we'll see whether I survive by using Plaquinil; I'll be my own anecdotal study guinea pig.

Over 40 years, hundreds of thousands of people used it to prevent and cure malaria. So yeah, pretty close to billion. In Africa you can buy those pills at petrol stations, it's available everywhere in case you need it urgently.

You could also drink quinine water (although you have to watch out for the artifically-flavored "quinine water"). I think one of the K vitamins is also in the quinone group.

[Serkevan]

Over 40 years, hundreds of thousands of people used it to prevent and cure malaria. So yeah, pretty close to billion. In Africa you can buy those pills at petrol stations, it's available everywhere in case you need it urgently.

Ah, I misread and thought you meant currently. My apologies! (Still counts as the "beats dying from malaria" part, though... )

By the way and as a curiosity, the antimalarial effect is not even exactly understood with definitive proof AFAIK. EDIT on this: after consulting the pharmacology manual, it seems that the immunodepressant effect also affects the virus, inhibiting its replication in the blood stage... unless you catch falciparum malaria, which is resistant.

---------- Post added 04-04-20 at 04:20 AM ----------

You could also drink quinine water (although you have to watch out for the artifically-flavored "quinine water"). I think one of the K vitamins is also in the quinone group.

Hendrick's is my treatment of choice for this pandemic.

[aslyfox]

I've been on the stuff (hydoxychloroquine) for years. . . . .

I take hydroxychloroquine for RA, ..

I hope that the shortages i have read about won't affect either of you personally

[BigMackCam]

Of the three groups most affected by this virus, hydroxychloroquine would be life-saving as to one (young adults) but probably deadly to the other two (small children and old folks). That's because hydroxychloroquine ("Plaquinil") works by suppressing the immune system, which is why it's approved for one autoimmune disorder (rheumatoid arthritis) and currently being tested for use with others (diabetes, Crohns/coeliac/IBS, etc.). The reason it works with folks with strong immune systems is because it can prevent the cytokine release syndrome which is what's actually killing people. That is to say, it's not the virus that's actually killing people, it's their own immune systems' responses to the virus that's killing them. Sort of like what happens to a person with an allergy to peanuts who eats one - the peanut doesn't kill him, it's the immune system response (anaphylactic shock) that kills him. People who contract the infection because they have weak immune systems won't get better by suppressing what little immune system they do have, and could possibly make them worse.

I take hydroxychloroquine for RA, and I've been wondering whether it leaves me slightly better or worse off in the current pandemic. On the one hand, it's reigning-in my apparently-over-active immune system to slow the progression of RA (which it seems to do rather well in my case, actually), but I'm curious as to whether my immune system is now reduced enough, too much, or not enough in relation to COVID-19. I believe the dosage I take is lower than is being trialled for the virus...

[aslyfox]

. . . Hendrick's is my treatment of choice for this pandemic.

name dropper

I'm a single malt scotch whisky man myself

name dropper

I'm a single malt scotch whisky man myself

It is important to regularly sterilize the oral cavity in these times. I'm a "white polynesian" fan, myself, (white russian made w/coconut milk instead of dairy).

[biz-engineer]

You could also drink quinine water (although you have to watch out for the artifically-flavored "quinine water"). I think one of the K vitamins is also in the quinone group.

I think the chemical is toxic for the body , so you need to have the exact prescription not to create more harm than benefits. That is what the debate is about to avoid people self medicating without controlling risk factors. Should only be decided and controlled by medical professionals to avoid the risks.

[aslyfox]

. . . Should only be decided and controlled by medical professionals to avoid the risks.

so a bartender isn't considered a reliable source ?

[biz-engineer]

I believe the dosage I take is lower than is being trialled for the virus...

Taken with moderation should be Ok