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04-04-2020, 12:36 PM - 1 Like   #1426
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QuoteOriginally posted by swanlefitte Quote
Do we know if the virus in the air will stick to skin? After a walk do we need to wash our face as well as our hands? I am not talking about from larger droplets.
The behavior of the virus isn't well known: I've seen no evidence that it does stick and no evidence that it doesn't.

The behavior of human beings, on the other hand, is well known. We've all seen evidence that people end up touching a lot more things than they realize.

So, wash your hands!

04-04-2020, 12:50 PM - 3 Likes   #1427
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QuoteOriginally posted by swanlefitte Quote
Do we know if the virus in the air will stick to skin? After a walk do we need to wash our face as well as our hands? I am not talking about from larger droplets.
I think odds are pretty good that there is minimal virus "in the air" during a walk. If aerosolization occurs, it is probably during forceful expiration such as coughing or loud singing (mentioned earlier) and even then, the droplets probably do not hang around for an extended period of time. I think the bigger concern is touching something with virus on it and then touching your face.

I think the idea with masks is to mainly (a) to prevent you from spreading virus if you are an asymptomatic carrier and (b) to make you more cognizant of every time you touch your face and hopefully reduce that.
04-04-2020, 01:56 PM   #1428
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If i wash my hands then wiped sweat out of my eyes, i would hate to wipe the virus on my face into my eyes. So after prolonged periods outside my house should I wash my face as well as my hands? I also change cloths. I think about this when i take my contacts out. I also wonder if my contacts might help or hurt. Obviously proper hand washing before handling contacts is more important.
04-04-2020, 02:10 PM   #1429
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QuoteOriginally posted by swanlefitte Quote
If i wash my hands then wiped sweat out of my eyes, i would hate to wipe the virus on my face into my eyes. So after prolonged periods outside my house should I wash my face as well as my hands? I also change cloths. I think about this when i take my contacts out. I also wonder if my contacts might help or hurt. Obviously proper hand washing before handling contacts is more important.
If you can get a small container of antibacterial gel, I would just use that periodically. Otherwise, I think you are OK. Soap and water should be fine before handling contact lenses. Understand I am no expert, but it feels relatively easy to control if you are aware and take some precautions.

04-04-2020, 02:24 PM - 1 Like   #1430
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QuoteOriginally posted by swanlefitte Quote
Do we know if the virus in the air will stick to skin? After a walk do we need to wash our face as well as our hands? I am not talking about from larger droplets.
If the virus is in the air, it will go inside your lungs when you breath, stick to lung walls and start to multiply. So ideally you should hold your breath when you are crossing an zone of air contaminated (near someone coughing for instance) and go away from that person as soon as possible, then you can breath again normally. Washing hands is good if your goal is to show group compliance but mostly useless for stopping contamination by air born viruses.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 04-04-2020 at 02:30 PM.
04-04-2020, 02:40 PM   #1431
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one thing I am doing when I am shopping and cannot maintain social distancing because someone is passing me in the aisle is very simple

I just turn away from them.

I do this even if I am wearing a mask

I grab a number of disinfectant wipes as I enter, wipe down the handle of the cart and carry some with me

if I touch anything I wipe my fingers and hands immediately

I wipe my hands as I leave the store and dispose of the sheets in the proper container
04-04-2020, 03:01 PM   #1432
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
If the virus is in the air, it will go inside your lungs when you breath, stick to lung walls and start to multiply. So ideally you should hold your breath when you are crossing an zone of air contaminated (near someone coughing for instance) and go away from that person as soon as possible, then you can breath again normally. Washing hands is good if your goal is to show group compliance but mostly useless for stopping contamination by air born viruses.
Not quite, hands come in contact with most surfaces, then you touch your face or food and then you eat/inhale the virus. Washing hands does help, to a degree.

04-04-2020, 03:24 PM   #1433
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
Hydroxychloroquine has enough severe side effects that it's not a good idea to administer it indiscriminately, certainly not as a preventive measure.
oh really???? tell you what, maybe you will change your mind when some one close to you perishes
04-04-2020, 03:32 PM - 1 Like   #1434
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
If the virus is in the air, it will go inside your lungs
Mucus does a pretty good job of preventing that. Your hands press it against your skin in your eyes and lips and nose. Rub the mucus coating away and it can attach. Medical research has far to go but until common education and practice can keep up, it wont do alot if good.
04-04-2020, 03:33 PM   #1435
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QuoteOriginally posted by dlh Quote
Of the three groups most affected by this virus, hydroxychloroquine would be life-saving as to one (young adults) but probably deadly to the other two (small children and old folks). That's because hydroxychloroquine ("Plaquinil") works by suppressing the immune system, which is why it's approved for one autoimmune disorder (rheumatoid arthritis) and currently being tested for use with others (diabetes, Crohns/coeliac/IBS, etc.). The reason it works with folks with strong immune systems is because it can prevent the cytokine release syndrome which is what's actually killing people. That is to say, it's not the virus that's actually killing people, it's their own immune systems' responses to the virus that's killing them. Sort of like what happens to a person with an allergy to peanuts who eats one - the peanut doesn't kill him, it's the immune system response (anaphylactic shock) that kills him. People who contract the infection because they have weak immune systems (very old, very young, people on chemotherapy, with HIV, etc.) won't get better by suppressing what little immune system they do have, and could possibly make them worse.
Yes the way I understand it, it is not the virus per say that kills you but it is you body over reaction to your own cells dying.In other word the virus gets inside the receptor cell and then that cell dies off causing your body to attack itself. That is why you need this medicine to suppress your autoimmune system .that in turn stops the flooding of the lungs with water .
04-04-2020, 03:52 PM - 4 Likes   #1436
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QuoteOriginally posted by niceshot Quote
oh really???? tell you what, maybe you will change your mind when some one close to you perishes
Less vitriol and more reading my previous posts.

Throwing a medicine (with well documented, severe side effects on patients with diabetes or other kidney problems) willy-nilly to people who might very well need hospitalization because of its side effects is reckless at best and negligent homicide at worst.

Also, my ENTIRE FAMILY is at risk, because my parents are both 60+ on metformin (and my dad's also on insulin), my grandma is 85+ and is on several medications since she had a stroke some years ago. Don't presume for a second that I don't care about this. It's insulting and shows you haven't bothered with anything I've said in the last, I don't know, 50 posts in this thread.
04-04-2020, 04:05 PM - 2 Likes   #1437
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
Less vitriol and more reading my previous posts.
+1; BUT, we are all, myself included, guilty of that to some degree. Let's all try and pay particular attention to what each of us actually writes rather than what we think the other means.
These are times like none of us have experienced before and we are going to have disagreements. That's a good thing, depending of course on how we handle those disagreements.
04-04-2020, 04:09 PM   #1438
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
+1; BUT, we are all, myself included, guilty of that to some degree. Let's all try and pay particular attention to what each of us actually writes rather than what we think the other means.
These are times like none of us have experienced before and we are going to have disagreements. That's a good thing, depending of course on how we handle those disagreements.
Of course and I'm also guilty of misreading here and there... that's why I try to be as precise as possible, precisely to avoid putting the wrong words in people's mouths. It doesn't always work as sometimes one jumps to reading between the lines a bit too much, though

I'm still fascinated by this particular case, I can't image how one would miss my very persistently reiterated stance that we must put people's lives first no matter what... it's not like I'm not blunt about it!
04-04-2020, 04:10 PM - 5 Likes   #1439
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QuoteOriginally posted by niceshot Quote
oh really???? tell you what, maybe you will change your mind when some one close to you perishes
Especially if they perish because they took hydroxychloroquine or if they perish because they really do have a bona fide medical condition that requires hydroxychloroquine but all the false-hope hoarders and profiteers have stripped the shelves bare of the drug that likely does not work on COVID-19.

What most people outside the pharmaceutical industry fail to understand is that the vast majority of "promising" drugs turn out to be failures for one reason or another. They look good in small early studies but then fail during larger studies or (worse) fail while harming people during wide spread use. A combination of random chance, greed/ego, desperate hope, small sample sizes, experimental errors, and logical or statistical fallacies conspire to mean that many supposed wonder drugs turn into blunder drugs. Worse, given the huge worldwide pressure to find a cure for this, the chances for bad science and false hopes is even higher than normal.

I do honestly hope hydroxychloroquine works but no amount of hope is not going to change biochemical reality. In fact, hope may increase the chances of egregious mistakes on the part of patients, doctors, and policy makers.
04-04-2020, 04:17 PM - 2 Likes   #1440
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
I'm still fascinated by this particular case, I can't image how one would miss my very persistently reiterated stance that we must put people's lives first no matter what... it's not like I'm not blunt about it!
Been there
done that
got the t-shirt.
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