[Serkevan]

More than 94% of people in below study had at least one underlying conditions. The most common underlying conditions was, high blood pressure, severe obesity and diabetes.

Nearly all coronavirus patients at Northwell Health had underlying condition: study

The problem is that about 30% of the US has one of those.

[aslyfox]

" stage by stage " reopening in Kansas

Beginning Monday, Kansas will move into the first phase of a four-part reopening. The initial phase will last at least 14 days and allow some activities to resume.

But many of the rites and routines of spring and summer will be forbidden during the first period. Organized sports, community swimming pools, festivals, parades and graduation ceremonies won’t be allowed. Theaters, museums and gyms will remain closed.

“Kansas will approach this process slowly, gradually and cautiously,” Kelly said, while warning that life will not fully return to normal until a vaccine is developed. Experts say that could take more than 18 months.

The governor’s 25-minute speech, which struck both somber and optimistic tones, marks an attempt to chart a path forward into a new normal that balances public health with economic needs. Kelly’s stay-at-home orders and bans on mass gatherings – along with fear of the virus itself – have sent the Kansas economy crashing. Last week alone, more than 28,000 people lost jobs.

“It’s an effort to balance non-negotiable public health considerations with jaw-dropping unsustainable economic realities,” Kelly said bluntly.

During the first phase, businesses that open must maintain 6 feet of separation between customers. Mass gatherings will remain limited to 10 or fewer.

Restaurants will be allowed to offer dine-in service, but tables will be limited to parties of 10 and must be kept 6 feet apart. Back-to-back booths will be allowed with barriers between them.

Churches and other houses of worship can hold services, but they will look different. More than 10 people can be present, but they must maintain social distance. . . .

The second, third and fourth phases will each roll back additional restrictions and allow more businesses and facilities to open. Transitions will be contingent in part on falling death rates and new hospital admissions.

Read more here: https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article242408441.html#storylink=cpy

County Health could institute more stringent requirements subject to the local conditions

https://governor.kansas.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/EO-20-29-Implementing...Astra-Plan.pdf

[timb64]

It seems like several large Corporations are using the present situation to push through decisions which would have caused an even worse outcry in “normal”conditions.
E.g.meatpacking cos in the US,airlines in the UK,etc,etc.

This is a comment on economics not politics.

Best interview with an expert I've seen:

A Once in a Century Pandemic: John Edmunds / Professor of Infectious Diseases - Direct Talk - TV | NHK WORLD-JAPAN Live & Programs

I wish we had that guy instead of Dr. Faustus.

[reeftool]

Our likesand desires as well as our stigmas and taboos effect how we approach covid.
It is pecular that articles are coming out saying tobacco use makes covid worse. The argument goes, Smoking bad, speculate, speculate, this happens so we can speculate more but there is no evidence this is correct.

Smokers and Vapers May Be at Greater Risk for Covid-19 - The New York Times

WHO EMRO | Tobacco and waterpipe use increases the risk of suffering from COVID-19 | Know the truth | TFI

Why COVID-19 hits smokers harder | Live Science

FDA can boost the coronavirus battle by pausing the sale of e-cigarettes | TheHill

BUT
The evidence clearly suggests otherwise.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/futurism.com/smoking-cigarettes-lower-risk-coronavirus/amp

“Our cross-sectional study strongly suggests that those who smoke every day are much less likely to develop a symptomatic or severe infection with Sars-CoV-2 compared with the general population,”

It is very statistically significant.


A nicotinic hypothesis for Covid-19 with preventive and therapeutic implications - Article (Preprint v1) | Qeios

Compared to the French general population, the Covid-19 population exhibited a significantly weaker current daily smoker rate by 80.3 % for outpatients and by 75.4 % for inpatients.

I read those stories a few weeks back. The high numbers of smokers in Europe were being mentioned as the cause of the higher death rates. Then the smoking prevents covid-19 stories hit. It was then that I came to the conclusion that the old saying that 99% of everything is BS is still true and especially everything you hear and read about covid-19. My take on all this is that health officials don't know jack s***. Govt. officials know this but won't come out and say so but their actions say it all. Quarantine the whole world and "'maybe" this will go away. The press and media grasp on every bit of information and make headlines out of even off the cuff remarks and or some statistic that is probably meaningless.

[Serkevan]

I read those stories a few weeks back. The high numbers of smokers in Europe were being mentioned as the cause of the higher death rates. Then the smoking prevents covid-19 stories hit. It was then that I came to the conclusion that the old saying that 99% of everything is BS is still true and especially everything you hear and read about covid-19. My take on all this is that health officials don't know jack s***. Govt. officials know this but won't come out and say so but their actions say it all. Quarantine the whole world and "'maybe" this will go away. The press and media grasp on every bit of information and make headlines out of even off the cuff remarks and or some statistic that is probably meaningless.

Government officials (and the general public, let's be honest here) are not well versed in proper, nuanced data analysis.

There is no necessarily contradictory statement regarding smoking, as there is a very substantial difference between "Nicotine may inhibit the infection from SARS-CoV-2" and "Smoking prevents COVID-19 deaths".
-Nicotine is not the only thing in tobacco messing up your lungs.
-Not only that, damage to your lungs and heart from smoking takes more than a decade to recover.
-Smoking rates in Europe (and elsewhere, much to the dismay of Philip Morris et al.) have been plummeting for a while.
-Complete speculation* based on hastily analyzing the data: This could lead to a seemingly paradoxal situation where ex-smokers are at much more risk because their lungs are damaged, more easily inflamed and at risk of infection, while current smokers "enjoy" the preventive effects of nicotine itself. The data could support this as most patients are in an age range that would have -statistically- been composed of smokers either actively or passively** In fact, the research paper quoted starts by saying that smoking itself is a terrible idea but nicotinic patches may be an alternative (if it doesn't lead to smoking down the line at least).

*Disclaimer: I'm currently employed as a researcher and I have been trained as an engineer so I have had both the need and opportunity to sharpen my critical and logical thought - but that has never stopped me from being utterly wrong and/or from saying blindingly stupid things frequently on occasion .
**Air quality and passive smoking are also typical predictors for lung diseases and cause lasting damage. Passively smoking would have been massively more common just one or two decades ago, until smoking in public places was restricted - I know I was incapable of going to most clubs before Spain passed a law outright banning smoking in bars/restaurants/etc.

[aslyfox]

the cost of doing business ???

Reopening could cause 233,000 extra deaths by June 30 but save up to 18M jobs: Report
by Nihal Krishan | May 01, 2020 12:25 PM

. . . The University of Pennsylvania's Penn Wharton Budget Model analyzed the health and economic effects of states partially reopening (lifting emergency declarations, stay-at-home orders, and school closures) as well as fully reopening, which would include businesses and restaurants as well.

The model, released on Friday, projects on a national level that if states do not open before June 30 and maintain the status quo, the cumulative national deaths due to the virus would rise to about 117,000 by June 30 (including deaths before May 1), and approximately 18.6 million jobs would be lost between May 1 and June 30.

A partial reopening of the economy would cause 45,000 additional deaths by June 30, relative to not reopening, and about 4.4 million jobs would be saved, for a total of 14 million jobs lost between May 1 and June 30, the report projected.

Fully reopening the economy would lead to an additional 233,000 deaths by the end of June, and almost all net job losses between May 1 and June 30 would be eliminated, the report projected. . . .

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/reopening-could-cause-233-000-extra-...8m-jobs-report
________________________________

who would believe it

Why dangerous conspiracy theories about the virus spread so fast — and how they can be stopped

The 5G coronavirus conspiracy theory shows how easily misinformation spreads ? and how dangerous it is - The Washington Post

bad information can be found on the web

and some folks act on such " information "

---

Last edited by aslyfox; 05-01-2020 at 10:59 AM.

[luftfluss]

The 5G coronavirus conspiracy theory shows how easily misinformation spreads ? and how dangerous it is - The Washington Post

bad information can be found on the web

and some folks act on such " information "

Youtu.be

Youtu.be

[swanlefitte]

Complete speculation* based on hastily analyzing the data[/B]: This could lead to a seemingly paradoxal situation where ex-smokers are at much more risk because their lungs are damaged, more easily inflamed and at risk of infection, while current smokers "enjoy" the preventive effects of nicotine itself. The data could support this as most patients are in an age range that would have -statistically- been composed of smokers either actively or passively** In fact, the research paper quoted starts by saying that smoking itself is a terrible idea but nicotinic patches may be an alternative (if it doesn't lead to smoking down the line at least).

This was my first thought. It seems this would not be a good time to quit and we need to study this should be current wisdom.

The last link actually posits several possible things to look into.

I spent time going back over the early data. In hind sight you can see how data was cherry picked to confirm assumptions. Popper would be ashamed. It was almost circular reasoning. Men get covid more and men smoke more. Thus smoking is the reason. Lets look at smokers with extreme lung damage with covid vs. Non smokers without smoke damaged lungs with covid. There is wild statisical swings in our cherry picked small samples that show small advantage to not having wrecked smoker lungs if you get covid and go to ICU. We will not consider that out of our 1000 subjects only 49 were smokers and all 49 had previously destroyed their lungs. Something like that.
Even after Italy showed men get covid more and in Italy men don't smoke more the idea didn't just go away.

[aslyfox]

important thing to consider at this time

The hair thing

State Rep. Cheryl Helmer, a Republican from Mulvane, shared with the entire Legislature her request for information about the governor’s hair. It was in the context of Kelly’s decision to leave hairdresser and barber shops closed in the first phase of her strategy to reopen the economy.

“I am respectfully requesting the name and Kansas license No. of the hairdresser who has touched, colored, cut, performed any service on or with Governor Laura Kelly’s hair since March 12,” Helmer said.

On Friday, Kelly told the editorial advisory board of The Topeka Capital-Journal that she was aware some people thought she was violating the order by getting her hair done on the sly.

The governor said she made the decision 37 years ago to marry an Eagle Scout who happened to be good with his hands. Reluctantly, she allowed her husband to give her a trim. “It scared the bejeezus out of me when I first let him do that, but I had no choice,” Kelly said. “Desperate times call for desperate measures.” “I’m also not stupid,” the governor added. “Do I really not think if I went to my hairdresser or I had my hairdresser come over to my house that that wouldn’t get out there? I mean, politically, that’s not something I would do, but I’m also not one of those do as I say, not as I do types"

Kansas coronavirus update: GOP leaders unhappy with pace of Gov. Laura Kelly?s strategy for opening businesses - News - The Topeka Capital-Journal - Topeka, KS

what the H_____________

I wonder if it is legal in Kansas to cut/trim the hair of a family member

let's launch an investigation

[Serkevan]

Even after Italy showed men get covid more and in Italy men don't smoke more the idea didn't just go away.

Yeah, in Italy about ~40% of smokers are women. It seems that having testicles is a problem . Although, to be fair, if we go with the "previously smoked" angle it will certainly be more prevalent for older men.

[reeftool]

important thing to consider at this time



Kansas coronavirus update: GOP leaders unhappy with pace of Gov. Laura Kelly?s strategy for opening businesses - News - The Topeka Capital-Journal - Topeka, KS

what the H_____________

I wonder if it is legal in Kansas to cut/trim the hair of a family member

let's launch an investigation

Being a grizzly old biker, I have never been much on grooming. I would go through periods of years without shaving or haircuts. My old haircut warning was when my hair would get tangled in my creeper wheels when working under a truck, then it was time for a trim. In recent years, I have been swimming for fitness and even competing again with a Masters team so I have been relatively well groomed but now that I can't swim, I really don't care again. I have better things to spend my money on. With that said, I think it would be hilarious to see some of these stuffed shirt politicians show up at a news conference completely unshaven and a couple of months of no haircuts.

[brewmaster15]

important thing to consider at this time



Kansas coronavirus update: GOP leaders unhappy with pace of Gov. Laura Kelly?s strategy for opening businesses - News - The Topeka Capital-Journal - Topeka, KS

what the H_____________

I wonder if it is legal in Kansas to cut/trim the hair of a family member

let's launch an investigation

Allen,

Its called deflection. Its when one tries to draw attention to another individual so you do not look at them. JMO,but I think its pretty Pathetic that this State Rep. Cheryl Helmer has made the Governors Covid-19 plan about her "hair". What a petty and unprofessional thing to do .. request

“I am respectfully requesting the name and Kansas license No. of the hairdresser who has touched, colored, cut, performed any service on or with Governor Laura Kelly’s hair since March 12,” Helmer said.

..There was nothing Respectful in it.. Meanwhile in the real world... People are are sick and Dying from Covid-19.
al

[Riggomatic]

important thing to consider at this time



Kansas coronavirus update: GOP leaders unhappy with pace of Gov. Laura Kelly?s strategy for opening businesses - News - The Topeka Capital-Journal - Topeka, KS

what the H_____________

I wonder if it is legal in Kansas to cut/trim the hair of a family member

let's launch an investigation

Hair-gate

[aslyfox]

it's official, we are rolling the dice starting Monday:

. . . Shawnee County health officials, local leaders and emergency management personnel revealed “A Guide to Re-opening Shawnee County, Kansas,” which will go into effect at 12:01 a.m. on Monday, May 4. . . .

Pezzino said the decision to adopt the governor’s reopening plan was a hard one. Based on the rise in coronavirus cases in Shawnee County over the last two weeks, he is apprehensive about moving too quickly. As of Friday afternoon, the health department had reported 121 confirmed cases of COVID-19 in Shawnee County — up from 117 the day before. Of those cases, 93 people have recovered, 23 cases are active and five people have died.

Pezzino said that even though the virus is still spreading locally, there were two aspects to consider when it comes to reopening: public health and community suffering. “We’ve heard loud and clear that people are suffering, that people are losing money, jobs, that there is more poverty in our community,” Pezzino said. “We cannot ignore that.”

so much for the federal guidelines about needing a two week decline