Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
10-31-2008, 05:44 PM   #1
Damn Brit
Guest




Australian news item - residency denied.

This is mainly directed at our Australian members but anyone can comment obviously.
Can we try and keep this one a bit more low key than the election posts please.

I saw this news item about the son of the German doctor who has been denied residency. The boy has Downs System. The doctor came to Australia two years years ago to help out due to a doctor shortage in rural areas.

I'm interested to hear from you Australian members about what you think about this issue and what you think the outcome is going to be.

From a practical point of view it seems like the immigration is following guidelines and doing it's job to protect the country. They state that the boy due to his condition would likely be costly to the country. This means your tax dollars.

But there's the other side of it, the Doctor came over to help Australians out and maybe he saved a few lives. So there's a hidden cost here, how much will it cost in your tax dollars if the doctor isn't there?

Over to you for your thoughts and insight.

10-31-2008, 07:41 PM   #2
Veteran Member
Gooshin's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Toronto, the one in Canada.
Posts: 5,610
thing about immigrating doctors, the first thing one would need to establish to argue a case, is there a transperancy in requirements to hold a doctors licence between australia and germany?

all of my friends who's parents were either doctors or physiciants when immigrated into Canada from Russia or Romania pretty much had to re-do their doctorates, even though they practiced in their home countries.

Will the German doctor get to be a doctor if he was to recieve residency?
10-31-2008, 08:24 PM   #3
Veteran Member
deejjjaaaa's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: steel city / rust belt
Posts: 2,043
QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
Over to you for your thoughts and insight.
it is not very different from what you have in USA... every family member has to file his or her I-485 petition to adjust the status from a non-immigrant to a permanent resident and has to go through the medical exam and while one spouse can clear it another can fail and based on the condition that might be either correctable or not...

Technical Instructions for Civil Surgeons | CDC DGMQ

the doctor should have enough brains to learn the immigration laws in AU before even coming there... coming on a temp visa does not mean the right to a permanent residency or citizenship.
10-31-2008, 11:30 PM   #4
Damn Brit
Guest




QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
thing about immigrating doctors, the first thing one would need to establish to argue a case, is there a transperancy in requirements to hold a doctors licence between australia and germany?

all of my friends who's parents were either doctors or physiciants when immigrated into Canada from Russia or Romania pretty much had to re-do their doctorates, even though they practiced in their home countries.

Will the German doctor get to be a doctor if he was to recieve residency?
QuoteOriginally posted by deejjjaaaa Quote
it is not very different from what you have in USA... every family member has to file his or her I-485 petition to adjust the status from a non-immigrant to a permanent resident and has to go through the medical exam and while one spouse can clear it another can fail and based on the condition that might be either correctable or not...

Technical Instructions for Civil Surgeons | CDC DGMQ

the doctor should have enough brains to learn the immigration laws in AU before even coming there... coming on a temp visa does not mean the right to a permanent residency or citizenship.
This isn't a typical case. The doctor has been over there for two years because Australia had a shortage. They wanted him and allowed him to practice. That's what interested me about the story.

I guess it's similar to the US fast tracking citizenship for immigrants who go in the military.

11-01-2008, 12:16 AM   #5
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Mallee Boy's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: South Australia
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,904
Hi Gary.
Yes it is an interesting question, but also one with many edges to it.

Australia, like may places around the planet, has had a rural doctor shortage for many years. This is due to many factors that i won't go into for the time being.

The quick fix solution favoured by our politicians was to allow an increased number of overseas doctors into Australia provided they worked in the country.
I sat on interview panels that went through this process to employ these doctors in a past life of a rural regional health service chairman, some 12 years ago.

The appointments were for a fixed term, at which point the doctors concerned had to make a decision.... to go home or stay and apply for residency visa type status (however that works).

Residency applications bring about a whole heap of different regulations to that that these doctors were granted their work permits (thats simplifying it).

These overeseas doctors were employed on a generous fee for service basis, with all sorts of inducements to make working here attractive.

Personally, I have no problem with what the government is saying, far reaching precedents can be set here and the rules are very clear and have always been so.

The bigger issue here is why, after 12 years or so do we still have this problem of getting doctors to work in country areas, why haven't we created more training places in our universities and recruited more kids from the country into these positions??? It is a proven fact that if you recruit kids from the bush, their return rate (to the bush) is significantly higher than metro kids who have little or no desire to venture too far away from metropolis....and quite naturally and understandably so.

I argued this 12 years ago..

Cheers mate.
11-01-2008, 12:25 AM   #6
Damn Brit
Guest




Thanks for filling me in. I think there are similar problems over here, everyone wants to be a plastic surgeon or other specialty that makes loads of bucks.
I read an article last year I think that there was also the same situation with rural vets.

Regarding this doctor and his son. One would have thought the situation might be different if the guy had been told up front that his son would find it difficult.

After giving it some thought (and this is only an opinion) I think the fairest solution to this would be to let the boy in and then make the appropriate changes to ensure the situation doesn't arise again. But it's not a fair world is it?

Cheers
11-01-2008, 12:29 AM   #7
Veteran Member
deejjjaaaa's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: steel city / rust belt
Posts: 2,043
QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
This isn't a typical case. The doctor has been over there for two years because Australia had a shortage. They wanted him and allowed him to practice. That's what interested me about the story.
no it is not a special case - who cares about his two years ? you have people here in the States being forced to leave after 10+ years if they were not able to secure a PR status... the fact that he is a doctor means nothing - the law should be the same for everybody, unless there is a clause that doctor's kid w/ a certain illness is somehow better that a teacher's one... and they wanted him exactly on a temp visa - once he will (if) get his PR status he will leave that rural place and go to work in a big city... very simple.

11-01-2008, 12:33 AM   #8
Veteran Member
deejjjaaaa's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: steel city / rust belt
Posts: 2,043
QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
I guess it's similar to the US fast tracking citizenship for immigrants who go in the military.
the difference is that he is applying for a PR status - not a citizenship, he is not an immigrant yet - his visa is an equivalent of US non immigrant visas like H-1B1 (L-1A, L-1B, etc)
11-01-2008, 12:37 AM   #9
Veteran Member
deejjjaaaa's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: steel city / rust belt
Posts: 2,043
QuoteOriginally posted by Mallee Boy Quote
The bigger issue here is why, after 12 years or so do we still have this problem of getting doctors to work in country areas
in USA you had special visas (H-1A/H-1C) for nurses - the same thing - to work in rural areas...
11-01-2008, 12:40 AM   #10
Veteran Member
deejjjaaaa's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: steel city / rust belt
Posts: 2,043
QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote

After giving it some thought (and this is only an opinion) I think the fairest solution to this would be to let the boy in and then make the appropriate changes to ensure the situation doesn't arise again. But it's not a fair world is it?
it is not the fairest but that is how it will end up - he has some figures on his side... like in USA there are always examples of private bills in Congress to grant PR status to some individuals as an exemption.
11-01-2008, 12:46 AM   #11
Damn Brit
Guest




QuoteOriginally posted by deejjjaaaa Quote
it is not the fairest but that is how it will end up - he has some figures on his side... like in USA there are always examples of private bills in Congress to grant PR status to some individuals as an exemption.
Well we disagree but we've both come to the same conclusion. I don't think teachers and doctors is a good comparison though. Doctors save lives and teachers only seem allowed to teach kids to take a test these days.
11-01-2008, 03:15 AM   #12
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ste-Anne des Plaines, Qc., Canada
Posts: 2,013
QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
thing about immigrating doctors, the first thing one would need to establish to argue a case, is there a transperancy in requirements to hold a doctors licence between australia and germany?

all of my friends who's parents were either doctors or physiciants when immigrated into Canada from Russia or Romania pretty much had to re-do their doctorates, even though they practiced in their home countries.

Will the German doctor get to be a doctor if he was to recieve residency?
When it comes to recognizing doctorates from foreign countries in the medical field, Canada stinks. I know a surgeon from Russia who is working as a taxi driver in Montréal because the "College des Medecins" (they regulate who can and can not work in the medical field in Québec) doesn't want to recognize his qualifications. But whenever the "College" hear of similar treatments toward Québec doctors in foreign countries, they raise a stink. It is sad, because, like so many other countries, we have a shortage of doctors in the medical field, andf, when somebody from another country wants to come here to practice medicine, he's treated like somebody who found a doctorate in a box of cereal.
11-01-2008, 09:33 AM   #13
Moderator
Loyal Site Supporter
Wheatfield's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The wheatfields of Canada
Posts: 15,902
QuoteOriginally posted by flyer Quote
When it comes to recognizing doctorates from foreign countries in the medical field, Canada stinks. I know a surgeon from Russia who is working as a taxi driver in Montréal because the "College des Medecins" (they regulate who can and can not work in the medical field in Québec) doesn't want to recognize his qualifications. But whenever the "College" hear of similar treatments toward Québec doctors in foreign countries, they raise a stink. It is sad, because, like so many other countries, we have a shortage of doctors in the medical field, andf, when somebody from another country wants to come here to practice medicine, he's treated like somebody who found a doctorate in a box of cereal.
This problem has as much to do with the Quebec government's xenophobic attitude towards non Quebecois speaking people as it does to recognizing their credentials.
Sometimes I think it is more important to your government that the person speaks the Quebec version of French than it is to have practicing doctors.
11-01-2008, 10:14 AM   #14
Veteran Member
falconeye's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Munich, Alps, Germany
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 6,871
QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
Will the German doctor get to be a doctor if he was to recieve residency?
I don't know how this relates to the original topic. But since the question was asked...

A German M.D. or Ph.D. is recognized as doctoral degree in almost all countries incl. the US. Medical doctors typically obtain their working permit for their particular field of specialization. In the U.S., they need an update on legal aspects as much of the treatment of patients is related to legal considerations (this is what I've read, at least).
11-01-2008, 12:21 PM   #15
Veteran Member
Tom S.'s Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: S.E. Michigan
Photos: Albums
Posts: 4,317
QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
Doctors save lives and teachers only seem allowed to teach kids to take a test these days.
Well, maybe. Based on a report by the Institute of Medicine (IOM) released in 1999 between 44,000 and 98,000 deaths a year are caused by medical errors. So yes, doctors save lives, and take them as well.

Teachers on the other hand enabled those individuals to become Doctors...
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
boy, cost, country, doctor, dollars, item, residency, tax
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Access Denied in Wanted section tomwil Site Suggestions and Help 3 10-29-2010 02:02 PM
K7 rebate denied K7er Pentax DSLR Discussion 25 03-11-2010 05:50 PM
First PPG attempts denied. Critique? mutedphotos Photo Critique 8 04-21-2009 05:30 PM
Frustrated with denied rebate sealonsf Photographic Technique 3 02-21-2009 03:49 PM
Help: Access denied. Gerry Site Suggestions and Help 2 06-13-2008 06:11 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:11 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top