[skaktuss]

If the World could vote in the US election, it would not be a US election. The whole concept is stupid.

True! But funny at the same time. USA is the most powerfull country and every single person on the earth is dependent on US activities. American voters actually are responsible for more than just their own country, so they are rulers of destiny for everyone. And I'm not gonna tell what average non-american thinks of average american voter...

Thanks God the winner is Obama, I hope our planet will become a bit more peacefull.

[Arpe]

This has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.

99% of this thread has nothing to do with the original topic

[séamuis]

99% of this thread has nothing to do with the original topic

as Ive said before, such is politics.

Thanks for the response, hope you got some sleep. I guess I just don't understand why someone that is willing to take advantage of the system is entitled to what I have worked for for the last 18 years of my life. They will be taking away from MY childs education, health care, etc. I am not against social programs, however I do recognize that we are at a point that certain segments of society have become dependent on the government for almost everything in their lives. Case and point was the woman that said she was happy Obama got elected because he was gonna pay her gas bill and rent, or something to that extent. This was allowed to happen by taking a temporary plan and allowing it to continue. This current system of government handouts in America has allowed this mindset to flourish. Obviously people are more open to the ideas that benefit them (translate, pay them the most). This is a perfect example of human nature. We need a society that fosters the idea of do for yourself, if you need some help we are here to help, but you need to keep trying. I am curious to see a healthcare plan that will benefit Americans and don't necessarily resist moving in the direction of taking care of our people, but just like everything else we need to be certain that the plan is right for everyone. Also, an education is only as good as the knowledge gained. Mao "educated" his youth..... I just think we need to be very careful as to just how much we allow the government to do for us or before you know it we will ALL be dependent on the government for EVERYTHING......okay, a bit dramatic for effect

BTW- Thanks for the conversation, it is refreshing to talk to someone not of the status quo(referring to the 3 other guys in my office).

Aaron, the people who have more money than you or I will ever see in our lives are every day taking away more from you and your son (and me and my family) than the peanuts being taken by those who are taking advantage of the welfare system which by the way is one of the worst in the industrialised world. Some people just cheat the system out of desperation. For people to do for themselves there has first to be a platform to enable them to do that and that's not there in this country. That's where the government has to do it's job. You're lucky to be where you are in life, other people aren't so fortunate. The people who cheat should be punished yes but the way you talk (and this isn't an accusation, it's just the way it comes across), the solution is to take those meager benefits away completely so people can't cheat. Why not take away the banking system as well then the people at the top can't cheat? Those whole segments of society you feel are taking advantage of the system, who are they? A blanket statement like that is very naive. Individuals cheat the system not whole groups of people.
I sincerely hope that you never have to rely on the welfare system. I've been a hair's breadth from being on the streets myself back in England and the system failed me and so did my family so I know what it's like to be one of those people you're complaining about.
You know what's funny, I see homeless people on the street all the time, the invisibles. Sometimes if I have change in my pocket I'll give it to them. I always give them a few friendly words though and they appreciate that so much more than any quarter someone tosses at them. The quarter helps them to buy something to eat or maybe goes toward a bottle of cheap liquor that'll take them away from the place they're in for a while, even though they know it's going to kill them eventually. But the words make them feel like they are part of the human race again. A huge number of those people you're worried about making what you have less valuable are also military vets. The system lets them down and their country lets them down.
I also find it funny (although it's not really funny) how people look on those who cheat the welfare system as scum but when it comes to the bastards at the top who cheat and steal and send their money offshore (that's who I'm talking about who are taking from you and your son) are people who are looked up to.
What a crazy uncaring world we live in.

One final thing, I haven't been able to work for over two months now. But I haven't claimed disability payments because I consider that that would be taking away from people less well off than I am.

It's been good talking to you as well by the way Aaron.

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Last edited by Damn Brit; 11-07-2008 at 04:03 AM.

[séamuis]

A huge number of those people you're worried about making what you have less valuable are also military vets. The system lets them down and their country lets them down.

this is one of the biggest problems I have with this country, makes me sick every time I think about it and that's the first thing I mention when someone talks about homeless in this respect. I had a 1SG army instructor (former field artillery at Ft. Sill, gulf war veteran) as a cadet back in high school who seemed to have it out for the homeless, he used to always say 'hey! there is a mcdonalds get a ****ing job! he even did that one day at a veterans day parade! I was calling cadence for my color guard and I could only think to myself, but the only thing I could think of was what if hes a veteran? yes even if you are a veteran you should be expected to take care of yourself, but in my opinion if you served this country in any capacity and for what ever reason you cant, you shouldn't have to live on the street, god its sickening... no whats more sickening is that the people of this country couldn't care less...

this is one of the biggest problems I have with this country, makes me sick every time I think about it and that's the first thing I mention when someone talks about homeless in this respect. I had a 1SG army instructor (former field artillery at Ft. Sill, gulf war veteran) as a cadet back in high school who seemed to have it out for the homeless, he used to always say 'hey! there is a mcdonalds get a ****ing job! he even did that one day at a veterans day parade! I was calling cadence for my color guard and I could only think to myself, but the only thing I could think of was what if hes a veteran? yes even if you are a veteran you should be expected to take care of yourself, but in my opinion if you served this country in any capacity and for what ever reason you cant, you shouldn't have to live on the street, god its sickening... no whats more sickening is that the people of this country couldn't care less...

And the sickening reason that they are on the street is probably, in most cases, due to the trauma they suffered in the battlezone for which they weren't treated. I have a close friend who was in the Rangers and fought in the elder Bush's debacle in '91. He came back with a lot of mental health issues, he finally got treatment from the VA about two years ago and now he's doing ok, he's married to the girl (my wife's best friend from high school) he's been with for six years (and she deserves a medal for having to live with his problems, boy did she suffer) and she gave birth to a little girl just a few days ago. The VA seems to work once you are in the system and they are treating you
(I guess it's a case of once they've made that initial investment, then they're committed). But trying to get an 'in' to the system in the first place is hell on earth.

[Mallee Boy]

True! But funny at the same time. USA is the most powerfull country and every single person on the earth is dependent on US activities. American voters actually are responsible for more than just their own country, so they are rulers of destiny for everyone.

Think the Chinese might have a different opinion.

This opinion would even bring a smile to the Middle Eastern Oil barons.

[Blue]

Think the Chinese might have a different opinion.

This opinion would even bring a smile to the Middle Eastern Oil barons.

Not to mention Vlad

[Aaron1971]

Aaron, the people who have more money than you or I will ever see in our lives are every day taking away more from you and your son (and me and my family) than the peanuts being taken by those who are taking advantage of the welfare system which by the way is one of the worst in the industrialised world. Some people just cheat the system out of desperation. For people to do for themselves there has first to be a platform to enable them to do that and that's not there in this country. That's where the government has to do it's job. You're lucky to be where you are in life, other people aren't so fortunate. The people who cheat should be punished yes but the way you talk (and this isn't an accusation, it's just the way it comes across), the solution is to take those meager benefits away completely so people can't cheat. Why not take away the banking system as well then the people at the top can't cheat? Those whole segments of society you feel are taking advantage of the system, who are they? A blanket statement like that is very naive. Individuals cheat the system not whole groups of people.
I sincerely hope that you never have to rely on the welfare system. I've been a hair's breadth from being on the streets myself back in England and the system failed me and so did my family so I know what it's like to be one of those people you're complaining about.
You know what's funny, I see homeless people on the street all the time, the invisibles. Sometimes if I have change in my pocket I'll give it to them. I always give them a few friendly words though and they appreciate that so much more than any quarter someone tosses at them. The quarter helps them to buy something to eat or maybe goes toward a bottle of cheap liquor that'll take them away from the place they're in for a while, even though they know it's going to kill them eventually. But the words make them feel like they are part of the human race again. A huge number of those people you're worried about making what you have less valuable are also military vets. The system lets them down and their country lets them down.
I also find it funny (although it's not really funny) how people look on those who cheat the welfare system as scum but when it comes to the bastards at the top who cheat and steal and send their money offshore (that's who I'm talking about who are taking from you and your son) are people who are looked up to.
What a crazy uncaring world we live in.

One final thing, I haven't been able to work for over two months now. But I haven't claimed disability payments because I consider that that would be taking away from people less well off than I am.

It's been good talking to you as well by the way Aaron.

I completely concur. The corporate crooks need to be dealt with, and I don't look down my nose at anyone. I have been in a situation where I needed welfare assistance when I received my discharge in 1997. I was just out of the service, wife and 2 kids and just needed a little help to get established. I was pretty much laughed out of the office, why you ask (I know you didn't), because I was married! A Gulf War vet with a family was turned away by this system and yet, my wife was told if we weren't married she could get everything. Mind you, at the time this is happening my wife's cousin had 2 children by different men, collected full benefits to include section 8 housing (she lived in a lake house with jet skis, expensive furniture, etc) and a free college education. The homeless situation is a completely different situation than the 3rd generation welfare recipient with a new car and big screen.

I never said we should get rid of our social programs (my poor writing may have conveyed this......sorry for not being clear). I do believe that our welfare system needs to be designed to minimize the fraud, and provide some sort of job training, or education to stop the trend of dependence. I would have no problem with a program to build housing, fund half way houses, etc for the homeless but again, it would need to be closely managed in order to reduce fraud (ESPECIALLY from the top), but I think it would be better if their were ample non-profits that could provide these services, thereby removing some of the innefficient bureaucracy that comes with government programs and would provide jobs locally, keeping money in the local economy. I am not a politician and cannot quote statistics etc. but I can comment on the social climate that I experience. I may have veered away from the topic in my last post. I don't know what the answer to our problems are, I do believe however, that the attitudes/ values of a society can have a serious impact not just on politics but in the direction that we, as a nation head.

I also want to add that threads like this provide me a chance to not only share, but vet my ideas as when I get typing sometimes thoughts just flow, unlike a debater or researcher of which I am not. Thanks for the conversation. Please let me know where I screwed up this time, I have to take my daughter to her football game.

BTW- I don't have any time to proofread so please be gentle