[RobA_Oz]

Not all drivers of larger vehicles! I drive a heavy 4WD older suburban, usually carrying 100 gallons of water (800 additional pounds of weight). I'm very aware of how long it takes to bring my vehicle to a complete "dynamiting brakes", stop. That's why I allow more than enough room when following other vehicles. If someone wishes to pass me, I'm on the alert for their actions.

Yes, I agree it’s not all drivers. That’s why I put the disclaimer on what I wrote. The poor drivers are the ones who stand out, as always, but in the case of larger vehicles, it’s not just their lack of skill, but the fact that they’re a sight screen and often out of their own lanes.

[maw]

The "Erratic Driver Maneuver" usually works well for tailgaters. Vary your speed, meander in the lane etc.
In extreme cases once you drift onto the shoulder a bit the shower of debris your tires kick up
will really discourage the usually car-proud knucklehead from following too closely.

I find that if I tap my brakes at different intervals; they don't know what I'm going to do, so they back off.

The puncture of a tire can also cause serious consequences, depending largely on the circumstances and speed.

You do it to dissuade him or to intimidate him, but remember that there are people who seek just that kind of challenge,
the cinema is studded with these examples "Duel", better not to joke with luck.

Remember it's only a moment... then.

Ciao Mario

[arnold]

When I and the world were younger, my incentive was to break my route time record. Now that the hormones have ebbed, my goal is to make the trip without causing me grief, expense or hassle. To arrive home with my lovely car (and me) undamaged. So what is my driving attitude now? Basically to assume they are out to get me and that I have to be able to escape them. It requires a development of anticipatory skills and imagination. "What if" is an attitude very different from the assumption that since all is well now, it will also be so in the next moment.

[Mooncatt]

The "Erratic Driver Maneuver" usually works well for tailgaters. Vary your speed, meander in the lane etc.
In extreme cases once you drift onto the shoulder a bit the shower of debris your tires kick up
will really discourage the usually car-proud knucklehead from following too closely.

Chris

Or they will call 911 and you'll get charged work wreckless driving.

[swanlefitte]

I am finding it funny that even this conversation "brakes" down to dynamic range. I brake to the left because I can bring it up to the the right. In the UK you lose all highlights because to the left is off the road!


I do like the just off the edge to kick stuff up approach but not the erratic due to the police being called for drunk driving.

[mee]

When I and the world were younger, my incentive was to break my route time record. Now that the hormones have ebbed, my goal is to make the trip without causing me grief, expense or hassle. To arrive home with my lovely car (and me) undamaged. So what is my driving attitude now? Basically to assume they are out to get me and that I have to be able to escape them. It requires a development of anticipatory skills and imagination. "What if" is an attitude very different from the assumption that since all is well now, it will also be so in the next moment.

That's how I learned to drive. I find it odd to see a thread about learning defensive driving skills -- they should be something everyone has.

But I can understand why not. Family members that taught me to drive as a teen were really cautious and intelligent on their training and tips. Impressing upon to me the necessity to keep my head on a swivel, watch the sides of the road, anticipate like a chess match, trust no one on the road. Then I took drivers education and the instructor did more of the same. But the kicker, and point of this post, is this -- all that training before the official state driving exam to get a license and my official road exam was literally driving around the block. 6 right turns back into the parking lot. Congratulations you're now legal to operate a 3000 lbs deathmachine on wheels.

I doubt it's changed in the decades since. But what has changed are all the safety and automated garbage on cars today, in addition to the lax examination, is why so many drivers are horrible at it. It just lends to distracted driving too.

I also think there is a cultural aspect at play as well. Where I live there are a lot of illegal immigrants moving in. We also factually have one of the highest uninsured motorist levels now too. Insurance rates are also sky high (how I got this info). And I believe it seeing some of the stuff on the road I now see and the number of hit and runs (don't want to get deported).


It's a whirlwind of inexperienced, poorly trained, and distracted/lazy drivers all out there on the road today. Not like it was 30 or 40 years ago that's for sure. People take the privilege of driving for granted today and the system in place directs people to do so!

[mee]

I am finding it funny that even this conversation "brakes" down to dynamic range. I brake to the left because I can bring it up to the the right. In the UK you lose all highlights because to the left is off the road!


I do like the just off the edge to kick stuff up approach but not the erratic due to the police being called for drunk driving.

From what I can tell there aren't many roads over there that have what we'd constitute as a proper shoulder -- a generally paved width of roadway large enough to remove your car off of the main roadway.

I see a lot of roads over there that have a defined, raised lip preventing one from leaving the road at speed (lest they risk damage?). And a lot of very narrow roadways. Are drivers patient over there or also impatient and tailgating as they tend to be here?

[swanlefitte]

From what I can tell there aren't many roads over there that have what we'd constitute as a proper shoulder --

Living many places, Nottingham had no shoulders and the narrowest lanes. Narita, Japan was close. I admired the bus drivers. I imagine Rome is narrower. The US mostly has the widest lanes and most shoulder. I don't know where you are from but 98% of the US has lots of room. Our parking spaces and roads are designed for the huge cars in the 70's here.

[swanlefitte]

Looked it up. Lane - Wikipedia
European lane 3.25m, American lane 3.7m.

[mee]

Looked it up. Lane - Wikipedia
European lane 3.25m, American lane 3.7m.

Yeah that's width of lanes but major US roads have practically another unused lane (in size) on the edges called shoulders. used for emergencies.


One can go look at Google Maps Streetview at various places in the world and get a decent feel for how roadways are in various countries.

[BigMackCam]

From what I can tell there aren't many roads over there that have what we'd constitute as a proper shoulder -- a generally paved width of roadway large enough to remove your car off of the main roadway.

I see a lot of roads over there that have a defined, raised lip preventing one from leaving the road at speed (lest they risk damage?). And a lot of very narrow roadways. Are drivers patient over there or also impatient and tailgating as they tend to be here?

Living many places, Nottingham had no shoulders and the narrowest lanes. Narita, Japan was close. I admired the bus drivers. I imagine Rome is narrower. The US mostly has the widest lanes and most shoulder. I don't know where you are from but 98% of the US has lots of room. Our parking spaces and roads are designed for the huge cars in the 70's here.

Looked it up. Lane - Wikipedia
European lane 3.25m, American lane 3.7m.

Yeah that's width of lanes but major US roads have practically another unused lane (in size) on the edges called shoulders. used for emergencies.


One can go look at Google Maps Streetview at various places in the world and get a decent feel for how roadways are in various countries.

A lot of our motorways (equivalent to US freeways?) have what we call a "hard shoulder" for emergencies and break-downs. Readers may be interested to learn that we also have mains electricity and gas, hot and cold running water, proper sanitation, good food (since the 1980s, at least), and some of us prefer coffee rather than tea... plus, it's rarely foggy since the demise of the industrial revolution, and we don't all have tea with The Queen

Joking aside...

The attached pic shows a section of my nearest motorway, the A1(M)... it has two lanes going in each direction, with centre reservation and barriers, and hard shoulders bordering the lanes. Most motorways are like this, though many have three or - in places - four active lanes in each direction rather than two. But, yes, roads are narrower here, as befits the size of our country and vehicles (parking spaces are narrower too). Many smaller "B roads" in rural and semi-rural areas are just a single (European or Asian size) car's width - little more than the horse-and-cart tracks they originally were, really - whilst the lanes on typical two-lane "A roads" are generally narrower than in the US. Some have raised pavements with kerbs for pedestrians, some don't. Despite the tighter roads, tailgating is (and idiots are) just as much of a problem here.

In recent years a scheme was introduced to re-purpose some quite lengthy sections of hard shoulders for temporary use as regular lanes during heavy traffic, using overhead electronic signage to inform drivers. Called "smart motorways", whilst these have been somewhat successful in traffic easing, they have - unsurprisingly, to many of us who actually drive on them - led to a number of deaths. They're generally disliked by the driving public, and I believe the government is beginning to realise they weren't / aren't very smart after all. Improving local, regional and national public transport is arguably a much better option... We need fewer cars on the roads, not just for climate protection but because in some areas of the country, there's simply nowhere left to build more or bigger roads. It may be the ninth largest island in the world, but Great Britain - with a population well over 60 million - is physically smaller than many US states

[aslyfox]

A lot of our motorways (equivalent to US freeways?) . . .

over here " freeways " if used, refers to roads you travel on without paying a toll for the privilege

some times roads/bridges are built with the idea that part or all of the cost is borne by the users of them

[ originally such " toll " roads/bridges were built with private funds but now the States/Cities build them ]



for example -

part of I 70 in Kansas, from Kansas City to Topeka then SW to Wichita is a tollway while I 70 west of Topeka is a " free way "

There is a " toll " road east of Denver Co which allows you to bypass Denver traffic but you pay for the privilege

_____________________________

That's how I learned to drive. I find it odd to see a thread about learning defensive driving skills -- they should be something everyone has.. . .

but even then, not everyone used them

I grew up and learned to drive in rural East Central Illinois

the " county " roads [ vs. State, US Highways or later Interstates ] were generally blacktop ( asphalt pavement ) not gravel

[ other states had a lot more gravel roads than rural Illinois I learned ]

but " crowned " in the center to allow water to run off to the sides

so you drove more to the center of the road unless you were approaching a hill, then you went to your side of the road

no lane markers, no " shoulders " or if there were any, it was gravel

with mature corn standing 7 feet or taller, when you approached an intersection, you slowed down to almost a complete stop because you could not see traffic on the intersecting roadway until you were almost into the intersection

State and US Highways were paved with reinforced " portland cement " and had narrow shoulders usually gravel, usually two lane, occasionally they were 4 lane but did not have " limited " access

Interstate Highways were 4 lane, 2 in each direction, " portland cement " limited access to them, with limited exit//entrance lanes and had paved shoulders and the curves were designed to be taken at higher vehicle speeds.

___________________________.

I blame the interstates and multilaned roads in part

back in the day, you passed quickly and got back into your lane judging the speed of oncoming traffic

now there is little need to do so and you lose or never gain the necessary skills, so if a driver is not on a divided highway system, the driver loses the skills of safely passing slower vehicles

and there are more vehicles on the road and more distractions built into our vehicles to take our attention away from the dangerous task of driving

Remember " Let's be careful out there "

You Tube

You Tube

[aslyfox]

for history buffs:

In 1919, then Lt.. Col. Dwight Eisenhower of the US Army was detailed as an observer on a convoy of military vehicles headed across country
it did not go well

https://www.lincolnhighwayassoc.org/tour/2019/overview/

https://www.army.mil/article/198095/dwight_d_eisenhower_and_the_birth_of_the...highway_system

during WW II, then the supreme Allied commander, Gen. Eisenhower was reportedly impressed by the " Autobahn " system of Germany and when " Ike " became President, funding for the " Interstate " system of roads was pushed through Congress

The Interstate Highway System - Definition, Purpose & Facts - HISTORY

[ChrisPlatt]

Another youngster in a real hurry:

https://abc7ny.com/crash-accident-queens-grand-central-parkway/6439959/

Chris

[swanlefitte]

Unless I was driving at least 2 hours from Nottingham I was never on a road bigger than this. Recap: Crash involving lorry and two cars closed the A453 for number of hours - Nottinghamshire Live
In contrast, where I live now every street is wide enough to easily park on both sides and change both side tires at the same time without being run over. In Salt Lake City you need a car to cross the street because they are too wide to walk that distance.😀