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12-17-2020, 08:23 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mooncatt Quote
That still falls under my last line that it's paid by individuals. In this case, it could make investors pull out because they are being harmed for things they had no control over.
That's all speculation. I'm always amused when people start making up reasons was to why people with cause to seek compensation shouldn't because it own't change anything.

If investors made money from shady practices, they should have to pay it back. Simple as that. Investors in that case are just people who made money from illegal activities.

The only people who will be harmed are people who have benefitted from those activities, the shareholders who took the dividends. And they should pay higher penalties. It took 15 years to bring this to settlement because of their need to profit from bad behaviour. The penalty should be 10x the actual monetary losses. Shareholders should definitely be penalized for investing in morally bankrupt combines. They are just arms length criminals benefiting from illegal behaviour. No one forced them to invest in Microsoft.

The only question for me is , is this a big enough judgement to convince Microsoft to follow the law. I don't believe it is. 5 billion would have been more appropriate.

12-17-2020, 02:25 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
If investors made money from shady practices, they should have to pay it back. Simple as that. Investors in that case are just people who made money from illegal activities.
So if you owned MS shares in your retirement account, I take it you'd be first in line to cash it all out (even if it means taking a big tax hit) and donate 100% of those funds to the lawsuit award?
12-17-2020, 03:04 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mooncatt Quote
So if you owned MS shares in your retirement account, I take it you'd be first in line to cash it all out (even if it means taking a big tax hit) and donate 100% of those funds to the lawsuit award?
You do know ethical funds make just as high returns as businesses like Microsoft that have just nasty corporate records. Apple and Microsoft both have teams of corporate lawyers at work all the time. Many of the organizations I've been involved with have divested of corporate stocks like Microsoft years ago, so ya, you made your choice live with it.

I get so tired of greedy corporate types complaning when they get burned because they made bad choices, as if the rest of society should cover their bad choice. It's all free market blah, blah, blah, until they get caught cheating. Then their entitlement comes out and what they propose is corporate welfare. My own knowledge of Microsoft and Apple means I wouldn't take a return on investment from either of them. I get so tired of these rich entitled arrogant investors, who claim they deserve return on their investment, whether they are ethical or not. No one has less of my respect than the investors in companies are benefitting from raping the earth, slave labor, child labour and human rights abuses. They all deserve to burn in hell, and if there is a hell, I hope they do. If you value your pension, make sure it isn't kept afloat by abusing others, or unethical resource companies. You make your choice, and you live with it.

Last edited by pjv; 12-17-2020 at 08:20 PM. Reason: Removing derogatory remarks
12-17-2020, 07:14 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
You do know ethical funds make just as high returns as businesses like Microsoft that have just nasty corporate records. Apple and Microsoft both have teams of corporate lawyers at work all the time. Many of the organizations I've been involved with have divested of corporate stocks like Microsoft years ago, so ya, you made your choice live with it.
If you are able to do so, then have at it. Like it or not, most investors are small time just trying to earn something for retirement through group plans like a company matched 401K in the U.S. I'm not going to hold any animosity against those people that just happen to have MS stock in them. So on that, we will just have to disagree.

12-17-2020, 08:06 PM   #20
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So if they don't have much money and they invest in a drug dealer, that's fine with you? After all, it's not them selling the drugs.

You're on really slippery slope. They made money they didn't deserve. That they got someone else to do the criminal part doesn't let them off the hook. I'm afraid your position benefits the lack of corporate responsibility that makes so many people rich for nothin other than being devious.

My pension fund, one of the richest in the world with over 125 billion in assets, started divesting ethically 20 years ago. Anyone can find a plan that does the same if they want to.They constantly at least until this year made better than 10% of investment per year and often topped 15% with ethical investments. People who want to be can be. People who aren't could be. If you don't research the ethics of where you invest, you could be in for a bath. You're one lawsuit or criminal conviction away from losing it.
12-18-2020, 04:13 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
...... companies are benefitting from raping the earth, slave labor, child labour and human rights abuses
Crikey, someone who likes Microsoft even less than I do And for further reasons! I even have an anti-Microsoft website, though more anti-Gates himself. It is slightly dated now, with the rise of tablets and smartphones. But Norm might enjoy it, or not. Gates Myths
QuoteQuote:
[How] Microsoft made its billions [was] that after a some early work-a-day contracts, it suddenly found itself in ... highly favourable business circumstances, riding high on IBM's shoulders, a wave of public ignorance, and undeserved brand adulation; stoked with some shady and illegal practices; supercharged by the spread of fear, uncertainty and doubt about their rivals' products; and gaining the critical mass of monopoly while the market was still small. Commerce and industry followed IBM's lead in IT at the time, and the fact that IBM had chosen Microsoft to supply DOS gave Microsoft a massive apparent endorsement, but in reality it had been an arbitrary choice for IBM at the time. For example if IBM had done a little more enquiring they could have bought DOS directly from Seattle Computer Products. In Steve Job's words, "Microsoft's orbit was made possible by a Saturn V booster called IBM".

Last edited by Lord Lucan; 12-18-2020 at 08:09 AM. Reason: Added quote
12-21-2020, 07:25 AM   #22
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I was talking to a few friends that looked into he suit. They are offering 8 dollars a computer. The online form you have to fill in for each computer takes over an hour, If you want to work for 8 dollars an hour, have at her..

However, the lawyers will get their 117 million.
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