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12-18-2020, 04:58 PM - 9 Likes   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by dlhawes Quote
Folks with autoimmune disorders can have all sorts of new and different symptoms as well as worsening of whatever symptoms they already had. People with unusually aggressive immune systems can't handle the glutamic acid and aluminum salts they add to the vaccine, proper ("excipients"), to stimulate the patient's immune response. Could be deadly, and could actually cause the cytokine storm that some people experience when infected. The good part is that such people have an overactive immune response and probably don't ever "catch cold" at all (and all cold viruses are coronaviruses, this just happened to be the 2019 outbreak of a new mutation - hence the -19 in the name).
I don't believe that glutamate or aluminum salts are added constituents of the current preparation. I also doubt that there is risk of runaway cytokine production as side-effect of a limited antigen challenge. That said, if you are receiving immune suppressants for RA, you will probably want to consult both your regular doctor and rheumatologist before considering the COVID-19 vaccine. It is possible that it simply would not work on account of your therapy.

Edit: Some additional notes regarding ingredients and adjuvants. Firstly, the Pfizer vaccine does not include adjuvants such as aluminum salts or squalene derivatives. Secondly, the ingredient list is pretty simple:
  • mRNA (three types)
  • Lipids (including ((4-hydroxybutyl)azanediyl)bis(hexane-6,1-diyl)bis(2-hexyldecanoate), 2 [(polyethylene glycol)-2000]-N,N-ditetradecylacetamide, 1,2-Distearoyl-sn-glycero-3- phosphocholine, and cholesterol) intended as a chemical protectant for the mRNA strands and as an assist for traversing the membrane into the host cells.
  • Potassium chloride, osmotic balance and stability enhancement
  • Monobasic potassium phosphate, pH buffer
  • Sodium chloride, osmotic balance and stability enhancement
  • Dibasic sodium phosphate dehydrate, pH buffer
  • Sucrose, stability enhancement


Steve

(...not trying to be a know-it-all, just have a varied education and diverse resume' heavy in the biological and medical side of things...)


Last edited by stevebrot; 12-18-2020 at 05:18 PM.
12-18-2020, 06:54 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
Pfizer one, of course. Hoping this is the beginning of the end . . . . . . .
If you get a fever, we'll be right here with some more cowbell.

---------- Post added 12-18-20 at 06:56 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by RoxnDox Quote
My wife will probably get hers long before I do. She's a physician, but not in the highest-priority group 1A since they aren't in daily contact with the Covid patients. I'm 60 and in decent health, so it will be at least a few months for me. Once my time comes, though, my answer is "Hell Yes!".
The good news is, your wife getting the vaccine will cut your risk roughly in half as a side-effect.
12-18-2020, 07:42 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Belcik Quote
Not in the country where I am. Maybe in Europe - I would consider one.
Why wouldn't you get one in Russia?
Isn't that where you are ?
12-18-2020, 07:59 PM - 1 Like   #19
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Received in my hospital early today
Not really issue may be muscle little angry
Generally ok

12-19-2020, 12:37 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Belcik Quote
Not in the country where I am. Maybe in Europe - I would consider one.
QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote
Why wouldn't you get one in Russia?
Isn't that where you are ?
I thought that Russia had developed their own vaccine. IIRC though, the Stage 3 trials were skipped, so perhaps that’s why some people would be wary of it.
12-19-2020, 04:10 AM - 3 Likes   #21
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The availability of vaccine is based on states and hospital systems. My brother has already gotten vaccinated -- he's a family doc in Florida who doesn't have any direct contact with COVID patients.

I'm actually seeing COVID patients here in Virginia in my office and am unlikely to get it till next month some time. The issue is mostly having to do with the distribution of the doses and I guess the logistics around it. Not complaining. I've dealt with it all year and will continue to do so. I mainly want to be sure that I am protecting my patients -- don't want to accidentally give them something because I go to work pre-symptomatic.
12-19-2020, 06:11 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote
Why wouldn't you get one in Russia?
Isn't that where you are ?
I do not believe in quality of testing done. Much of the information is.... manipulated more than in Europe.
12-19-2020, 06:37 AM - 1 Like   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
Pfizer one, of course. Hoping this is the beginning of the end . . . . . . .
It is not the end. It is not the beginning of the end. But it is the end of the beginning.

12-19-2020, 07:36 AM   #24
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I'm a little leery of this one. I'm not an anti vaxer. I have had my flu shot and am scheduled for my second pneumonia shot next month. I'm not a health care worker but I am still working part time at my job as a truck/trailer fleet refrigeration mechanic for a foodservice company. We are considered essential although I was furloughed for 4 months as most of our customers were closed or opening with a very limited take out menu. Around half the work force was laid off and over a third of the fleet was parked. Most of the stuff that broke down was just parked. I'm 70 so that makes me somewhat higher risk but I still haven't made up my mind. I'm especially going to avoid the Moderna shot. A rushed vaccine from a company who has never had an FDA approved medicine until now and has no manufacturing capability and plans to farm out production? Nope!
12-19-2020, 07:48 AM - 3 Likes   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by reeftool Quote
I'm a little leery of this one. I'm not an anti vaxer. I have had my flu shot and am scheduled for my second pneumonia shot next month.
Just one - I think essential - comment on this.

As long as a fair number of people are wearing masks, there is a much reduced risk of pneumonia and/or flu. I know a lot of people do not behave sensibly, but I still think we won't see much of a flu season this year.

If you want to protect yourself against a disease that is likely to actually affect you this season, the COVID shot is the more important one to get.
12-19-2020, 09:21 AM   #26
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I'm 40 with no underlying conditions and have already had CoViD back in March, so I imagine I'll be last in the line for a vaccine, and quite rightly so.
12-19-2020, 09:32 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Breakfastographer Quote
Just one - I think essential - comment on this.

As long as a fair number of people are wearing masks, there is a much reduced risk of pneumonia and/or flu. I know a lot of people do not behave sensibly, but I still think we won't see much of a flu season this year.

If you want to protect yourself against a disease that is likely to actually affect you this season, the COVID shot is the more important one to get.
The pneumonia shot is lifetime. It a 2 shot vaccine. I got the first one last year before covid was in the news. I have always gotten a flu shot. I will get the second pneumonia shot. A lot of what is killing people who get covid is secondary infections. I take large doses of vitamin D and C also. It one of the best things you can do right now. The majority of people who get seriously ill from covid are vitamin D deficient.
12-19-2020, 12:26 PM - 2 Likes   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by reeftool Quote
The pneumonia shot is lifetime. It a 2 shot vaccine. I got the first one last year before covid was in the news. I have always gotten a flu shot. I will get the second pneumonia shot. A lot of what is killing people who get covid is secondary infections. I take large doses of vitamin D and C also. It one of the best things you can do right now. The majority of people who get seriously ill from covid are vitamin D deficient.
For what it is worth, what is killing people is typically one of three things. (1) Viral Pneumonia causing hypoxia and respiratory failure. This is particularly an issue for those over 70. (2) Clotting issues resulting in huge embolic phenomena. Folks come in to the hospitals with D Dimers in the thousands and fibrinogen levels that are vastly above normal. This is what probably happens in a lot of the younger folks who die of COVID and unfortunately, even with full dose anticoagulation it can still happen. (3) Multi Organ failure secondary to some mixture of the first two.

Flu seems to weaken the immune system an allow for secondary bacterial infection, but this doesn't seem to be so much the case with COVID.

(not trying to be contrarian, just what I've seen)...
12-19-2020, 02:21 PM - 2 Likes   #29
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I'll have a jab when it's offered - or if. Re masks - I visited a friend in hospital the other day, wearing a mask as usual when close to people, and was asked to remove it. I was then given a hospital mask to wear instead.



The reason ? The mask has a design based on Grateful Dead 'Skulls and Roses', and it was thought it might distress elderly patients ! I can quite understand and agree with that, just happened to be the one I had in my pocket, as I had washed the other two. As for age - 70 early next year, have COPD and limited mobility, so probably low priority.
12-19-2020, 03:29 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Belcik Quote
I do not believe in quality of testing done. Much of the information is.... manipulated more than in Europe.
I can understand that.
I would be wary of that too.

Nonetheless ... All the best. Stay well.
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