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01-21-2021, 02:29 AM - 1 Like   #211
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisPlatt Quote
On The World radio program yesterday I heard a report that in Indonesia and some other predominantly Muslim countries
there is resistance to Sinovac due to the mistaken notion that it contains pork ingredients and is therefore haram (forbidden).

Chris
Same type of idiots that say vaccines contain aborted babies.

QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
Our family had the Covid back in July, and I have nice antibodies already, so no, not getting the vaccine...
QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
Here's the interesting thing.... back when I had it, they were saying the antibodies were only going to last 3 months. 3 months later, they said 6 months. Now that I'm getting close to 6 months, they are saying 8...
When I had it in March they said they didn't know but best bet would be six months and the safest way to behave was to assume that you had no immunity. Only time will tell, but if what I previously stated about the virus suppressing the immune response is shown to be true then some of the vaccines (the mRNA ones, not the ones inserting the spike protein gene in another coronavirus) may well provide significantly better immunity than actually contracting the wild virus. That means it would be beneficial to everybody, including those that have already had CoViD.

It'll be quite some time until I'm offered it but when offered I will certainly accept. It's everyone's duty to their fellow human beings to get the vaccine if they can.

QuoteOriginally posted by gaweidert Quote
Does anyone really believe that as of January 13, 2021 the official death toll in China from COVID-19 is only 4,634? Or that they went 8 months with no deaths from the virus while it ran rampant over the rest of the planet.

This from an article on the Al Arabiya web site on January 14 of this year.
No way. China is among the many countries where official numbers are completely wrong. There are three reasons for this, the effect of each varies depending on the country:

(1) the government doesn't want to admit they have such a bad problem because they feel it reflects badly on them (when in fact what reflects badly is lying to their populations and doing less than possible to solve the problem)

(2) vast rural areas with very limited healthcare where it's not really possible to determine the cause of death

(3) the real infection and death rates contradict the (right-wing) political leanings of leaders who are the type who believe what they choose rather than believe what the evidence shows. Leaders like Donald Trump and Jair Bolsonaro who say it's "just a flu" etc etc

China, Russia, India, Brazil.... I'm sure the list goes on.

01-21-2021, 02:46 AM   #212
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
Here's the interesting thing.... back when I had it, they were saying the antibodies were only going to last 3 months. 3 months later, they said 6 months. Now that I'm getting close to 6 months, they are saying 8...
The reason is that they could only say with certainty for the time periods for which they had data. Logically, therefore, 3 months became 6 became 8. It may well be longer, but we'll have to wait more months to find out!
01-21-2021, 03:40 AM - 2 Likes   #213
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
Currently, research seem to show that you'll be good for at least 8 months.
See Immunological memory to SARS-CoV-2 assessed for up to 8 months after infection | Science
I don't really feel like that study really addresses either reinfection rates or carrier status of those who have had COVID previously. The SIREN trial, which had over 20,000 participants, did look at that and found that at 5 months there was a 83 percent protection against COVID if you had a previous infection. In addition, even those who had decent antibodies still sometimes had high levels of COVID in their airways making it possible that they could asymptomatically transmit the virus.

The CDC looked at rates of seroconversion after COVID infection and found that at four months 24 percent had lost their antibodies and 90 percent had significant decreases in antibody levels. Decline in SARS-CoV-2 Antibodies After Mild Infection Among Frontline Health Care Personnel in a Multistate Hospital Network ? 12 States, April?August 2020 | MMWR I think the study you posted indicates that even if your levels drop, your body has some memory of past COVID infection and so hopefully, even if you got COVID again, it would be a milder case.

I do think it is interesting that studies on the Pfizer vaccine in Israel have shown that recipients have gotten significantly higher levels of antibodies from it compared to a natural infection. Antibodies increase by 6 to 20 times after second Pfizer dose - Sheba - The Jerusalem Post I think scientists are hopeful that these higher antibody levels would decrease carrier status more than natural infection seems to, but that remains to be determined.
01-21-2021, 01:31 PM - 1 Like   #214
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Got my first dose of the Pfizer vaccine today. Next Thursday I get an injection in my left eye. Two weeks after that I get my second dose of Covid vaccine, then 5 days later get tortured with a laser in my left eye...The laser is worse than the injection...you have to sit still while your brain is screaming at you to pull away...

01-22-2021, 12:01 PM - 2 Likes   #215
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QuoteOriginally posted by slartibartfast01 Quote
I recently heard about someone who had their first dose of the vaccine then a week later tested positive for Covid. I suspect they may already have been infected before being given the vaccine or failing that the vaccine takes time to have any effect anyway.
Yeah, people forget that vaccines don't give instant immunity, so they jet the shot and go out and get sick.
The Pfizer vaccine, and presumably the Moderna one give at best 50% immunity on the first shot, but that immunity takes weeks to develop. Its the second shot that boosts the immunity to 95%, and that takes several more weeks.

I have no problem with people not wanting to get vaccinated. I truly believe people should have 100% control over what goes into their bodies.

Unlike masks, which don't protect the users so much as the people around them, vaccines protect the user from the people around them. If a person wants to take the chance on the virus rather than the protection a vaccination provides, that is their choice.
However, they cannot expect the rest of us to wear masks forever to protect them.
Oh wait, they probably don't believe in masks either.
01-22-2021, 01:55 PM - 1 Like   #216
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Got my first dose of the Pfizer vaccine today. Next Thursday I get an injection in my left eye...
Go to a different clinic. They’re doing it wrong!!

Got my second Modena dose yesterday. Same as the first, arm swelling and tenderness a bit more than a typical
Flu shot but no other significant side effects. Had several colleagues have flu like symptoms with the Pfizer but I don’t think it was a Pfizer vs Moderna issue. Just some folks get side effects, some don’t.
01-22-2021, 05:12 PM   #217
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My wife got her first dose of the Pfizer vaccine. Pretty efficient process, and an appointment for the next dose. My mom (still can't believe she's 85) got her first Pfizer dose too, with lots of tech support from my sister in law. Then ended up with a follow up appointment for Moderna. More work for the sister in law.

01-23-2021, 03:15 AM   #218
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I wonder if the UK will change the strategy again. When it was changed to 12 weeks the work involved in contacting people who already had second appointments was immense.

BBC News - Covid: Gap between Pfizer vaccine doses should be halved, say doctors
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55777084

01-23-2021, 03:54 AM   #219
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Well, at least UK is A) getting and B) delivering the vaccines. EU isn't getting anywhere regarding the vaccines. First Pfizer, then AstraZeneca are reporting significant delays in vaccine supply. And there seem to be significant delays in use of the few vaccines the individual countries have got. I personally work partly with immunocompromized cancer patients and the odds are that I'll get covid before a vaccine the way things are going.
01-23-2021, 04:15 AM - 1 Like   #220
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I'm getting a bit more hopeful. In the US there are now over 1 million doses being given a day. The CDC says there have been nearly 40 million doses distributed and 20 million given, so hopefully it will start to get to people who need it most.

Our little office is going to be doing about 100 shots a week. It's all we can really handle since we have to observe people for 15 minutes after their doses.
01-23-2021, 05:21 PM   #221
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I'm getting a bit more hopeful. In the US
Although the UK variant has arrived in the US, it hasn't really hit you yet.

I've been watching some youtube videos by Dr John Campbell ( Dr. John Campbell - YouTube ) he seems to tell it as it is (except in one where he mixes up Australia with all of Australia).

His latest one covers his fears for the US.
01-23-2021, 06:17 PM   #222
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I have no problem with people not wanting to get vaccinated.
I do. Here's a great little article about the maths around herd immunity.
Vaccination makes a big difference in reaching herd immunity - STAT

Also, my aunt died from Polio. If you ever need a disease to cure you from being anti-vax, then Polio is the one.
01-23-2021, 06:35 PM   #223
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While I support mass vaccination in most cases, my concern with the Covid vaccines is the speed with which they have been developed and distributed, considering that most vaccines take years to reach that stage. We've done this one in less than 12 months and we can't know what the long-term side effects (if any) will be. Only time will tell.

But my far bigger concern is the animal welfare issue of testing these (and all other drugs) on animals. I expect that while our government won't make the vaccination compulsory, they will make things sufficiently difficult that there won't be any realistic alternative.
01-23-2021, 07:39 PM   #224
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QuoteOriginally posted by carlb Quote
While I support mass vaccination in most cases, my concern with the Covid vaccines is the speed with which they have been developed and distributed, considering that most vaccines take years to reach that stage. We've done this one in less than 12 months and we can't know what the long-term side effects (if any) will be. Only time will tell.

But my far bigger concern is the animal welfare issue of testing these (and all other drugs) on animals. I expect that while our government won't make the vaccination compulsory, they will make things sufficiently difficult that there won't be any realistic alternative.
Things normally take years to reach the market not only because of safety concerns; but also because bureaucracy and the relevant studies move slower when we are not talking about a deadly pandemic. Nowadays it's hard for strong side effects to slip through the cracks - and for true *long* term side effects not even the "standard" testing time would work - that's not what's tested for with clinical studies AFAIK, at least not before approval of the drug in question.
01-23-2021, 11:23 PM - 1 Like   #225
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QuoteOriginally posted by carlb Quote
While I support mass vaccination in most cases, my concern with the Covid vaccines is the speed with which they have been developed and distributed, considering that most vaccines take years to reach that stage. We've done this one in less than 12 months and we can't know what the long-term side effects (if any) will be. Only time will tell.

But my far bigger concern is the animal welfare issue of testing these (and all other drugs) on animals. I expect that while our government won't make the vaccination compulsory, they will make things sufficiently difficult that there won't be any realistic alternative.
I don't think there's any animal testing occurring now. There would have been limited amounts early on in all these vaccines (at least one hundred around the world) but the real testing has been on people. It just has to.
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