[Wheatfield]

In Australia, we are facing up to one third of the public being 'vaccine hesitant'.

It's a combination of the usual anti-vaxxer mentality with the fact that we have no coronavirus cases (other than those flying into the country and ending up in 14 day supervised quarantine).

So, it's disturbing that this mix of fear and complacency means we could fail to reach herd immunity.

I look at it as a self correcting problem. The vaccinated people will put this pandemic behind them, the unvaccinated will most assuredly all catch the plague at some point, either helping the rest of us reach herd immunity or die trying. Either way, they too will put the pandemic behind themselves eventually.

I think that while anti vaxxers aren't going to earn respect, their decision has to be accepted. While I don't agree with their risk assessment, I accept that they have the right to refuse to have a foreign substance injected into their bodies if they prefer to not be injected.
We are, after all, supposed to be a free society.

What I don't agree with is what will be the anti vaxxers' insistence that their decision comes without consequences.
It won't surprise me if countries that have insurance for pay to play health care will see insurance companies make covid vaccinations a requirement for coverage.
It won't surprise me if private carriers such as airlines demand proof of vaccination prior to boarding an airliner.
It won't surprise me if employers make vaccinations mandatory if a person wants to work for them.
Health care in my country is paid for out of the public purse, and it offends me to help pay for treatment for people who refuse that which can keep them from getting sick.
I fully expect the anti vaxxers to scream blue murder when they find out what their decision is going to cost them if any of what I predict comes to pass.

[Racer X 69]

So, it's disturbing that this mix of fear and complacency means we could fail to reach herd immunity.

Covid will thin the herd.

Then humanity will achieve herd immunity.

[Rondec]

I look at it as a self correcting problem. The vaccinated people will put this pandemic behind them, the unvaccinated will most assuredly all catch the plague at some point, either helping the rest of us reach herd immunity or die trying. Either way, they too will put the pandemic behind themselves eventually.

I think that while anti vaxxers aren't going to earn respect, their decision has to be accepted. While I don't agree with their risk assessment, I accept that they have the right to refuse to have a foreign substance injected into their bodies if they prefer to not be injected.
We are, after all, supposed to be a free society.

What I don't agree with is what will be the anti vaxxers' insistence that their decision comes without consequences.
It won't surprise me if countries that have insurance for pay to play health care will see insurance companies make covid vaccinations a requirement for coverage.
It won't surprise me if private carriers such as airlines demand proof of vaccination prior to boarding an airliner.
It won't surprise me if employers make vaccinations mandatory if a person wants to work for them.
Health care in my country is paid for out of the public purse, and it offends me to help pay for treatment for people who refuse that which can keep them from getting sick.
I fully expect the anti vaxxers to scream blue murder when they find out what their decision is going to cost them if any of what I predict comes to pass.

I just hate that anti-vaxxers have built their cases on falsehoods. One was telling me the other day that "Measles was really mild when you got during childhood and even Polio wasn't so bad for most people..." I wonder what she would have told FDR?

Japan and Taiwan have done really well with regard to COVID cases and deaths, but suddenly they are having another wave and it seems as though it is due them having low levels of vaccination through the country. More than that, when you achieve herd immunity through the majority of your population getting COVID you get more variants.

Estimations were that at least 75 percent of the Brazilian City of Manaus had COVID last June and July. 7 percent of the men over 75 in the city died from COVID. And then in December a new variant showed up and made the rounds again -- P.1 they called it and it seemed as though immunity to previous infections wasn't good against that. The same with the strain currently circulating in India.

Anyway, I know I'm preaching to the choir, but there's such a strong animosity to vaccine in some quarters and a benevolent feeling towards the childhood diseases of the past that I just don't understand. Polio and Tetanus and Whooping Cough really killed a lot of people in another era. The fact that they don't any more is merely a testament to the effectiveness of vaccines, not simply better antibiotics.

[MarkJerling]

I just hate that anti-vaxxers have built their cases on falsehoods. One was telling me the other day that "Measles was really mild when you got during childhood and even Polio wasn't so bad for most people..." I wonder what she would have told FDR?

My aunt died from polio (after a pretty miserable life with polio). I would have had to stop myself from going off had I encountered your dimwitted acquaintance.

[timb64]

Health care in my country is paid for out of the public purse, and it offends me to help pay for treatment for people who refuse that which can keep them from getting sick.
I fully expect the anti vaxxers to scream blue murder when they find out what their decision is going to cost them if any of what I predict comes to pass.

You raise a number of interesting points particularly with regards to what will be required by way of a vaccination passport to participate in many aspects of “normal” life and what effect this will have on the naysayers’ decisions about getting jabbed.

On the question of self-inflicted complaints I’d be interested in what you regard as within the control of the individual to help themselves.

Obesity is the obvious one but I’ve even heard of healthcare professionals who regard amateur sporting injuries as being self inflicted and outside the scope of the public health system or at least a waste of their time and resources!!

[mee]

Naturally, every startup claims to have solved the problems that have bedevilled the big companies - give us money to explore our ideas!

Cambridge Analytica were very effective, BTW, within their limitations.

CA was a different animal compared to Palantir.


Palantir have big contracts with the govt here. And the data tech has been successfully used to locate and drone terrorists. So it's not just about taking govt money. The services provide abilities their customers wouldn't otherwise have.

They're rather secretive on how, but it seems they have very advanced pattern matching. So they don't record the data, they simply process it. And can mine this over multiple HUGE data sets. So you could be in one entities (govt or business) dataset for a set of interactions (example -- security cameras walking downtown) and in a different entities dataset for others (buying gasoline at a certain gas station). Palantir seems to be able to pull from all of these datasets and paint a larger picture.

[Serkevan]

CA was a different animal compared to Palantir.


Palantir have big contracts with the govt here. And the data tech has been successfully used to locate and drone terrorists. So it's not just about taking govt money. The services provide abilities their customers wouldn't otherwise have.

They're rather secretive on how, but it seems they have very advanced pattern matching. So they don't record the data, they simply process it. And can mine this over multiple HUGE data sets. So you could be in one entities (govt or business) dataset for a set of interactions (example -- security cameras walking downtown) and in a different entities dataset for others (buying gasoline at a certain gas station). Palantir seems to be able to pull from all of these datasets and paint a larger picture.

Palantir is just the closest we've been so far to a Cyberpunk dystopia. Can't wait for the next developments...

One would also think that with all the indiscriminate launching of drones at least some would strike intended targets, but that discussion is veering far too much into the P word.

[mee]

indiscriminate

You'd have to clarify that as what I've seen has been incredibly calculated with care to at least try not to hit non hostiles. But I agree it's heading into the weeds now, this conversation.

So back on topic with vaccinations!

[Wheatfield]

My aunt died from polio (after a pretty miserable life with polio). I would have had to stop myself from going off had I encountered your dimwitted acquaintance.

Polio will cause paralysis of some sort in 1 in 200 cases, with that paralysis being fatal in 5-10% of those cases if the paralysis affects the breathing muscles.
It's an evil disease. A good friend of mine was struck down by it when he was just entering his teenage years in the early 1960s. His legs were affected, with one being pretty much a useless appendage, and the other one significantly weakened. He finally passed away in late 2016, I think mostly he just didn't want to live anymore.

---------- Post added May 20th, 2021 at 03:50 PM ----------

You raise a number of interesting points particularly with regards to what will be required by way of a vaccination passport to participate in many aspects of “normal” life and what effect this will have on the naysayers’ decisions about getting jabbed.

On the question of self-inflicted complaints I’d be interested in what you regard as within the control of the individual to help themselves.

Obesity is the obvious one but I’ve even heard of healthcare professionals who regard amateur sporting injuries as being self inflicted and outside the scope of the public health system or at least a waste of their time and resources!!

I admit it is a slippery slope when health care is refused based on lifestyle or bad choices made, and I am conflicted on the subject and probably less than consistent. My ire is directed at the anti vaxxers because they are such a pox on society. They deliberately spread lies and disinformation, and they are getting in the way of getting this pandemic over with by creating a portion of society that the virus can thrive in and mutate, thereby causing harm for the rest of us.

[timb64]

I admit it is a slippery slope when health care is refused based on lifestyle or bad choices made, and I am conflicted on the subject and probably less than consistent. My ire is directed at the anti vaxxers because they are such a pox on society. They deliberately spread lies and disinformation, and they are getting in the way of getting this pandemic over with by creating a portion of society that the virus can thrive in and mutate, thereby causing harm for the rest of us.

100% agree!

[StiffLegged]

I had the second AZ dose on Thursday afternoon and reaction this time around was even slighter than first time. Looking forward to going on holiday this summer (in UK), seeing some different scenery.

[Jeff]

I had the second AZ dose on Thursday afternoon and reaction this time around was even slighter than first time. Looking forward to going on holiday this summer (in UK), seeing some different scenery.

Having my second AZ vaccine on the 25th of May...and also looking forward to getting out a bit. I'd like to head up north to Southport, Formby beach and Ainsdale forest to see family...it's been a looooong time!

[slartibartfast01]

I had the second AZ dose on Thursday afternoon and reaction this time around was even slighter than first time. Looking forward to going on holiday this summer (in UK), seeing some different scenery.

My second vaccine is due on June 1st but I am meant to be in the group having it brought forward. I haven't heard a thing yet. When they do contact me I might just leave it as it is. You need to cancel your appointment before making a new one. It wouldn't surprise me if after cancelling it proves impossible to find an earlier one.

[Ex Finn.]

Had my second shot of Moderna little over two weeks ago.
Took me down for the count, had to drag my ass out of the bed for real.
Flights to and from Finland are booked...

[Serkevan]

Second Moderna shot about 12 hours ago. Arm's already more painful than it was the last time and my friend who also got jabbed today is already down with chills and aching everywhere in bed... it's gonna be a fun Monday tomorrow