[Parallax]

Here's the problem I have with the "the vaccine causes <insert untoward effect here> argument:
Scenario 1: Some people developed blood clots and the only thing they had in common was they had been vaccinated. The obvious conclusion is that the vaccine causes blood clots.
Scenario 2: Some people who weren't vaccinated developed blood clots. If the only thing they had in common was they had orange juice for breakfast so would it be a logical conclusion that orange juice causes blood clots?
Concurrent events are not necessarily tied to a single causative.

Another issue I have is the "it's not 100% effective" argument.
Well, neither are seat belts, life vests, or fire extinguishers and they have some potential risks as well. A seat belt could possibly trap you in a sinking car if you drive into the river, a life vest could snag on some part of a sinking boat and you could be dragged under and drowned, and some fire extinguishers contain known carcinogens so by the same logic seat belts, life vests, and fire extinguishers should never be used.
BTW, parachutes don't always work either so if you ever have to jump out of a plane and a parachute is available, don't bother with it. You might end op getting snagged in a tree and die of thirst or be eaten by a leopard before being rescued.

[slartibartfast01]

Here's the problem I have with the "the vaccine causes <insert untoward effect here> argument:

Scenario 1: Some people developed blood clots and the only thing they had in common was they had been vaccinated. The obvious conclusion is that the vaccine causes blood clots.

Scenario 2: Some people who weren't vaccinated developed blood clots. If the only thing they had in common was they had orange juice for breakfast so would it be a logical conclusion that orange juice causes blood clots?

Concurrent events are not necessarily tied to a single causative.



Another issue I have is the "it's not 100% effective" argument.

Well, neither are seat belts, life vests, or fire extinguishers and they have some potential risks as well. A seat belt could possibly trap you in a sinking car if you drive into the river, a life vest could snag on some part of a sinking boat and you could be dragged under and drowned, and some fire extinguishers contain known carcinogens so by the same logic seat belts, life vests, and fire extinguishers should never be used.

BTW, parachutes don't always work either so if you ever have to jump out of a plane and a parachute is available, don't bother with it. You might end op getting snagged in a tree and die of thirst or be eaten by a leopard before being rescued.

What you say is true but when a perfectly healthy 44 year old dies three weeks after the Astra Zeneca vaccine with headaches starting a few days after the jab it is fairly clear what the cause was. Enough to convince a coroner anyway.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/aug/26/bbc-presenter-lisa-shaw-died-o...-coroner-finds

[Wheatfield]

What you say is true but when a perfectly healthy 44 year old dies three weeks after the Astra Zeneca vaccine with headaches starting a few days after the jab it is fairly clear what the cause was. Enough to convince a coroner anyway.
BBC presenter Lisa Shaw died of Covid vaccine complications, coroner finds | BBC | The Guardian

I'm certain if a person dug around a bit, they could find a citation about someone drowning because they couldn't get out of their seatbelt as their car sunk in a river, or getting dragged to the bottom because their floatation device snagged on some part of their boat, or they died of a gunshot wound while cleaning their hunting rifle, or they died because of a malfunctioning airbag (hello Takata, I'm looking at you), or died of a deep vein thrombosis from sitting too long in an airplane seat while flying to Australia from Los Angeles, or died when their spaceship blew up during launch, or slipped and fell in the shower, or died of a blood clot caused by a birth control pill, or from getting hit by a car while walking across the street while doom scrolling, and on and on.

The point is, people are terrible at risk assessment and management. They will maximize their risk while maximizing some other minimal risk.
In this case, the odds of dying from Covid, if you contract it, appears to be, overall, about 1 in 50, with it biasing upwards the older you are and the more comorbidities you have.
OTOH, the risk of dying from any of the vaccines appears to be in the range of one in a few million, and that is almost always going to be an anaphylactic reaction from something in the vaccine, meaning knowing what you are allergic to might be important.
What I'm reading at the moment is telling me that with the Delta variant, a person has the choice of getting vaccinated or, at some point, contracting Covid-19.
It's funny, we have a chicken pox vaccine, something that is mandated in every state in the USA as well as many regions of Canada, yet chicken pox only has a death rate of something like .002% at worst, and if you catch it as a child, as most of us do, that risk drops to something like .0001%.


So, do we take the one in a few million risk with the vaccine or the one in fifty risk with the disease?

Our own governments are showing us that a risk factor of 1 in 100K is not acceptable with chicken pox, and the general population has gone along with it, but people balk at being vaccinated for a disease that carries a 1 in 50 risk.
The risk factors of the Varicella vaccine are on par with the risk factors of the Covid-19 vaccine.

Next thing you know, some famous Rap singer from Trinidad is going to discover that a cousin's friend's cousin grew a coat of feathers after getting the chicken pox vaccine and his wedding was called off because of it.

[Parallax]

What you say is true but when a perfectly healthy 44 year old dies three weeks after the Astra Zeneca vaccine with headaches starting a few days after the jab it is fairly clear what the cause was. Enough to convince a coroner anyway.
BBC presenter Lisa Shaw died of Covid vaccine complications, coroner finds | BBC | The Guardian

I'm not in any way stating that there are no risks associated with the vaccines. There is no medication or vaccine, not a single one, that is without risk. My only point was that the risk/reward analysis seems heavily weighted in favor of vaccination.
If my house is on fire I'm going to try to get out even though I risk tripping over something on the way or getting run over by a responding fire truck once I'm outside.

[swanlefitte]

I knew quite a few people who died out of the blue at a young age. I can speculate the vacine has been around for almost 50 years, long before Covid-19 existed and was secretly given to people. How else could these people have died?

Many people are convinced of black magic. A child gets bitten by a snake is proof enough. We have a World Immunization Week at the end of April. We have Aug 10th as World Day against Witch Hunts. Perhaps after World Maths Day gets going the other two will do better.

[Racer X 69]

Many people are convinced of black magic. A child gets bitten by a snake is proof enough. We have a World Immunization Week at the end of April. We have Aug 10th as World Day against Witch Hunts. Perhaps after World Maths Day gets going the other two will do better.

I know intelligent, educated people who believe that the world is flat.

[Parallax]

I know intelligent, educated people who believe that the world is flat.

Really?

[UncleVanya]

I just got my shingles and flu shots. Covid shots were done nearly 5 months ago.

Anyone else gotten the Shingles shot? It HURT going in. My arm is also very sore on that side. It bled more than any other vaccine I’ve ever had - still minimal but surprising. Even showering later I had a sting in the area which is quite unusual. Can’t wait for scheduling the second shot in 2-6 months.

[slartibartfast01]

I just got my shingles and flu shots. Covid shots were done nearly 5 months ago.



Anyone else gotten the Shingles shot? It HURT going in. My arm is also very sore on that side. It bled more than any other vaccine I’ve ever had - still minimal but surprising. Even showering later I had a sting in the area which is quite unusual. Can’t wait for scheduling the second shot in 2-6 months.

I didn't even know there was a shingles shot. I googled it and in the UK you need to be between 70 and 79 to be eligible.

[UncleVanya]

I didn't even know there was a shingles shot. I googled it and in the UK you need to be between 70 and 79 to be eligible.

There are two different versions available in the world. Only Shingrix is still available in the USA. The other is much less effective and wasn’t heavily recommended until after 70. The reason even a weaker vaccine is recommended at that age is that symptoms from Shingles get worse as age goes up. A dirty secret is that nerve pain can persist for YEARS after an episode. This likelihood increases with age at the time of the active episode. I’m taking no chances as I already have some nerve damage - don’t need more!

Which Shingles Vaccine Should I Get? - Shingrix vs. Zostavax - GoodRx

[Parallax]

Anyone else gotten the Shingles shot?

Yes, both doses.

It HURT going in

YES!
My arm was sore for 3 days after the second one. No other ill effects though. No sign of Guillain-Barré syndrome.

[Racer X 69]

Really?

Well, they appear intelligent and educated.

Until they begin ranting about the flatness of earth.

There isn’t any reasoning with them either. These people go on endlessly about stuff that proves their perspective, oblivious to how much of an idiot they appear.

One I know is a quality assurance inspector at The Big Shed. Considering only his knowledge of the job, and the building of airplanes, I know few others as proficient as he. But get him started on the flat earth thing, and he quickly becomes the antithesis of himself.

[slartibartfast01]

There are two different versions available in the world. Only Shingrix is still available in the USA. The other is much less effective and wasn’t heavily recommended until after 70. The reason even a weaker vaccine is recommended at that age is that symptoms from Shingles get worse as age goes up. A dirty secret is that nerve pain can persist for YEARS after an episode. This likelihood increases with age at the time of the active episode. I’m taking no chances as I already have some nerve damage - don’t need more!



Which Shingles Vaccine Should I Get? - Shingrix vs. Zostavax - GoodRx

Apparently Zostavax is the main vaccine in the UK which explains the 70-79 age range.

[MarkJerling]

That story was from August 30th 2021. How can it be out of date. You appear to have listed all deaths due to Covid-19 not deaths due to vaccines.



---------- Post added 09-20-21 at 06:20 AM ----------

Most of those deaths have been shown to have not been caused by the vaccine. Maybe the one mentioned in the August 30th story was the first one to be considered caused by the vaccine.

I'm sorry if I have not been clear. The data I have linked to is the most recent data. It shows instances of deaths after residents of New Zealand have received the Pfizer vaccine. There is, as yet, no available data to prove that any of those people have died of complications relating to the Pfizer vaccine. At this point, the data appears to indicate that some of those people may have died as result of receiving the vaccine but as the Coroner has not yet ruled one way or the other, there is, as yet, no definitive case that can be said to have been caused purely due to exposure to the vaccine.

There has, however, been one case where the person's death is strongly suspected to be due to the person receiving the vaccine. This was a woman in her 50's with other health issues. That case and all the other cases are still before the Coroner.

[ChrisPlatt]

Today I got the results of my blood tests taken about a month ago.
My antibodies count is still very high.
My second dose of the Pfizer vaccine was at the end of April.

While there I got my annual flu shot. Will the anti COVID vaxxers start refusing that now?

I received some bad news, too: my GP is retiring by November 2021.
I dread looking for and starting all over with a new doctor...

Chris