[Wheatfield]

My physician's are employees of my HMO - i.e. medical insurance company. The physicians should lead the way with the bean counters going along with their judgement.

That sounds like a situation ripe for conflicts of interest.

[PDL]

Hmm, are physicians employed by an insurance company acting in your interest?

---------- Post added 09-21-21 at 03:21 PM ----------

That sounds like a situation ripe for conflicts of interest.

The conspiracy's are thick here.

My HMO is pretty large and yes the physicians do take an interest in my health (Hippocratic oath et al) and they also get paid by Medicare etc. If I die, they stop getting my monthly payments from the Government (basically that is the entity who is paying for it + a little out of pocket (not really as the out of pocket stuff is very small and the Medicare extended payments are sucked out of my Social Security automatically)).

Conflict of interest? Really? Who pays for your Canadian medical bills? I think it is Health Care in Canada - which is the Government. Do they have a conflict of interest?

[Wheatfield]

The conspiracy's are thick here.

Your doctor is employed by a company that has a vested interest in maximizing it's profit off of you by minimizing the level of product you are paying for (the level of service your doctor is allowed to provide).
If there is a conspiracy anywhere, it's in your HMO's office, not on this forum. I'm just pointing out that the system is set up to allow for conflicts of interest.

[Parallax]

The physicians should lead the way with the bean counters going along with their judgement.

No. Period.
If you think that's true then the next time you or your loved one is sick or injured you should call an bean counter, not a doctor.

Let's suppose there were CMOs (Crime Management Organizations) or FMOs (Fire Management Organizations):

"Police department; how can we help?"
"My house was burglarized while we were out tonight"
"All right sir, I'll refer that to our financial experts to see if that's warrants investigating."

"911, what's your emergency?"
"My house is on fire."
"Very well. What's the value of your house? How old is it? What percentage of it is in flames? We need to asses the probability of a successful intervention before approving a response by the fire department."

---

Last edited by Parallax; 09-21-2021 at 03:59 PM.

[slartibartfast01]

---------- Post added 09-21-21 at 03:21 PM ----------


The conspiracy's are thick here.

My HMO is pretty large and yes the physicians do take an interest in my health (Hippocratic oath et al) and they also get paid by Medicare etc. If I die, they stop getting my monthly payments from the Government (basically that is the entity who is paying for it + a little out of pocket (not really as the out of pocket stuff is very small and the Medicare extended payments are sucked out of my Social Security automatically)).

Conflict of interest? Really? Who pays for your Canadian medical bills? I think it is Health Care in Canada - which is the Government. Do they have a conflict of interest?

What benefit does the insurance company get from employing doctors then? They must think that they will save more than the doctor's salary or why would they employ them. In the UK the insurance companies have a list of consultants that they will accept but I don't think any of them work for the insurance companies.

[Rondec]

For what its worth, it doesn't really matter if an insurance company employs physicians. They still set certain things -- you have to take medication 'a', 'b' and 'c' before you can take expensive medication 'd.' You have to have done six weeks of physical therapy on your spine or have significant neurologic symptoms in order to get an MRI of your back. The list goes on. Choosing Wisely

I don't really like insurance companies deciding things for doctors and patients, but I also know that doctors are bad at telling their patients no. Someone comes in with a week of terrible back pain and wants an MRI, should they get it? Probably not, but if they push hard enough, most docs will give in and say, whatever, get an MRI. But it's a pretty expensive test that doesn't really change anything.

A big organization like Kaiser Permanente believes that if they own all the different parts of their system -- docs, clinics, and hospitals and they salary doctors rather than pay them on procedure/visit billed -- they can save money in the long run and provide good care for less money. I think in general they get good ratings by their patients so it isn't all negative.

[Wheatfield]

Conflict of interest? Really? Who pays for your Canadian medical bills? I think it is Health Care in Canada - which is the Government. Do they have a conflict of interest?

This is way off topic, but.....

It's actually the individual provincial governments responsibility to pay for health care. The federal government sends out equalization payments to provinces that need a boost to maintain the system.

The doctor bills the provincial body. There are no shareholders to keep happy except for the electorate. That body is the final arbiter of whether they like the job being done.

For the most part it works pretty well. Some services are slower than others in normal times.

Right now a lot of services are not available because the system is overwhelmed at the moment. This is, from what I gather, a North America wide problem.

Note to Mods: if this is too off topic or has strayed into places we dare not go, my apologies.

[Parallax]

Note to Mods: if this is too off topic or has strayed into places we dare not go, my apologies.

It seems okay to me, Bill.

[PDL]

No. Period.
If you think that's true then the next time you or your loved one is sick or injured you should call an bean counter, not a doctor.

Let's suppose there were CMOs (Crime Management Organizations) or FMOs (Fire Management Organizations):

"Police department; how can we help?"
"My house was burglarized while we were out tonight"
"All right sir, I'll refer that to our financial experts to see if that's warrants investigating."

"911, what's your emergency?"
"My house is on fire."
"Very well. What's the value of your house? How old is it? What percentage of it is in flames? We need to asses the probability of a successful intervention before approving a response by the fire department."

Wow. Talk about making things up. Bean counters do not answer the phone - at least where I live. And there are CMO's and FMO's - look at how many Police and Fire Unions are fighting mask/vaccine rules/mandates.

---------- Post added 09-21-21 at 05:19 PM ----------

Your doctor is employed by a company that has a vested interest in maximizing it's profit off of you by minimizing the level of product you are paying for (the level of service your doctor is allowed to provide).
If there is a conspiracy anywhere, it's in your HMO's office, not on this forum. I'm just pointing out that the system is set up to allow for conflicts of interest.

My doctors employer has a vested interest in keeping me alive, so they can maximize their profit. If I die, no one gets paid and if I die unnecessarily then the lawyers get paid as my survivors sue the crap out of them for wrongful death.

[Wheatfield]

It seems okay to me, Bill.

Thanks Jim. Let's get back to our usual programming though. This has the potential to go over a cliff.

[tokyoscape]

I saw the truck photo on Instagram 2 days ago maybe, and this morning saw it made to the news.


It wasn't a real Funeral Home's Ad but the real people related to the funeral business has a (similar) grim message back in 2020. This is a quote from a news on another web site:
But as the COVID-19 pandemic continues to spread across the region Goldstein said he has now broken all his sales records in the past two months. In July, he sold 45 caskets. Normally, he said, he would be "very happy" with selling 30 in a winter month.

[PDL]

What benefit does the insurance company get from employing doctors then? They must think that they will save more than the doctor's salary or why would they employ them. In the UK the insurance companies have a list of consultants that they will accept but I don't think any of them work for the insurance companies.

And the US's medical system is a mess. One of the "solutions" to this was the invention of a HMO who's business model is to provide facilities, doctors and medical procedures to keep their customers healthy and alive. A dead customer does not pay - no customers - no business.

There is bureaucracy, it can take a long time to get an appointment, see a specialist etc. My GP, Optometrist and Gastroenterologist all work for the same HMO. One building - three specialists plus pharmacies - all coordinated because they all are working to keep me alive and healthy. Including contacting me to get Shingles, Pneumonia, Flu, Tetanus and finally Covid-19 shots.

If that is a conflict of interest then bring it on. I have good healthcare that's all. As I have said many times - I am fully vaccinated with three (3) shots. So far, so good.

Now, back to your regular programming.

[MarkJerling]

My doctors employer has a vested interest in keeping me alive, so they can maximize their profit. If I die, no one gets paid and if I die unnecessarily then the lawyers get paid as my survivors sue the crap out of them for wrongful death.

My doctor can't be sued. Everyone gets paid whether I die or not.
Yet, NZ's average life expectancy is 82.3 years, USA is 78.9, Canada is 82.4.
NZ child mortality is 0.5% before age 5, USA is 0.7%, Canada is 0.5%.
Maternal mortality rate in NZ is 11 deaths per 100,000 live births, USA is 14, Canada is 7.
Per capita spending on health care in New Zealand is $4,018.31, USA is $9,402.54 and Canada is $4,640.95.

I'm not convinced the "Sue the crap out of them for wrongful death" model is all that successful. Well, it's probably successful for the lawyers, but I don't think it's helping health outcomes.

[MarkJerling]

I saw the truck photo on Instagram 2 days ago maybe, and this morning saw it made to the news.


It wasn't a real Funeral Home's Ad but the real people related to the funeral business has a (similar) grim message back in 2020. This is a quote from a news on another web site:
But as the COVID-19 pandemic continues to spread across the region Goldstein said he has now broken all his sales records in the past two months. In July, he sold 45 caskets. Normally, he said, he would be "very happy" with selling 30 in a winter month.

Brilliant!

[PDL]

My doctor can't be sued. Everyone gets paid whether I die or not.
Yet, NZ's average life expectancy is 82.3 years, USA is 78.9, Canada is 82.4.
NZ child mortality is 0.5% before age 5, USA is 0.7%, Canada is 0.5%.
Maternal mortality rate in NZ is 11 deaths per 100,000 live births, USA is 14, Canada is 7.
Per capita spending on health care in New Zealand is $4,018.31, USA is $9,402.54 and Canada is $4,640.95.

I'm not convinced the "Sue the crap out of them for wrongful death" model is all that successful. Well, it's probably successful for the lawyers, but I don't think it's helping health outcomes.

And what part of "And the US's medical system is a mess." did you not understand?

The US has tried to have a single payer system multiple times in the past (and future). There are forces here that will deny common sense at all levels.