[aslyfox]

some things to add to the certain list [ death and taxes ]

some will refuse to be vaccinated

misinformation -

1 about the Covid-19 virus and its variants

2 about the vaccines

3 about the hoped for pills to be taken after someone catches Covid-19

4 about natural immunity

5 about " cures "

health workers -

1 being overworked

2 attacked verbally and otherwise

medical facilities being taxed by those who refuse to be vaccinated

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Last edited by aslyfox; 12-21-2021 at 12:38 PM.

[slartibartfast01]

some things to add to the certain list [ death and taxes ]

some will refuse to be vaccinated

misinformation -

about the Covid-19 virus and its variants

about the vaccines

about the hoped for pills to be taken after someone catches Covid-19

health workers -

being overworked

attacked verbally and otherwise

medical facilities being taxed by those who refuse to be vaccinated

I often wonder how much difference it would make to the number of new cases if all the vaccine "hesitant" were vaccinated. I suspect it would make a big difference.

[Rondec]

I often wonder how much difference it would make to the number of new cases if all the vaccine "hesitant" were vaccinated. I suspect it would make a big difference.

I think we would still see new cases. I think the big change would be that hospitalizations would drop considerably. People just don't get as sick if they are vaccinated and don't end up in the hospital.

[BigMackCam]

I have been so frustrated with the deniers

I often wonder how much difference it would make to the number of new cases if all the vaccine "hesitant" were vaccinated. I suspect it would make a big difference.

I think we would still see new cases. I think the big change would be that hospitalizations would drop considerably. People just don't get as sick if they are vaccinated and don't end up in the hospital.

I, too, got frustrated - at first - by vaccine deniers and those who, for whatever other reasons, declined to have it... but there's no convincing some folks, and in most societies we allow freedom of choice - and that's important... so I stopped worrying about it and got on with doing things as safely as possible, taking whatever precautions I could to protect myself, my family and others. What I found - and still find - more frustrating is those that object to restrictions placed on them because they're unvaccinated. For a time here in the UK (and I think it's been re-introduced recently) you had to produce proof of vaccination to attend or enter certain events and venues... I'm pretty sure football matches and other sporting events (horse races etc.) were some of the major ones. Some folks were up in arms about that... but the way I see it, if you won't have the vaccine, fine - but then, don't complain if you can't join in certain activities for a limited period of time. If missing those events bothers you that much - more than the sense of social responsibility in having the vaccine in the first place - get vaccinated. It's still your choice, still entirely within your control...

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Last edited by BigMackCam; 12-21-2021 at 01:46 PM.

[RobA_Oz]

I, too, got frustrated - at first - by vaccine deniers and those who, for whatever other reasons, declined to have it... but there's no convincing folks, and in most societies we allow freedom of choice - and that's important... so I stopped worrying about it and got on with doing things as safely as possible, taking whatever precautions I could to protect myself, my family and others. What I found - and still find - more frustrating is those that object to restrictions placed on them because they're unvaccinated. For a time here in the UK (and I think it's been re-introduced recently) you had to produce proof of vaccination to attend or enter certain events and venues... I'm pretty sure football matches and other sporting events (horse races etc.) were some of the major ones. Some folks were up in arms about that... but the way I see it, if you won't have the vaccine, fine - but then, don't complain if you can't join in certain activities for a limited period of time. If missing those events bothers you that much - more than the sense of social responsibility in having the vaccine in the first place - get vaccinated. It's still your choice, still entirely within your control...

Some people will always want it both ways. Self-centredness, ignorance, prejudice or carelessness. Call it human nature, but if there was an antidote to cognitive dissonance and a vaccine against greed, it would be helpful for the rest of us.

[noelpolar]

Fwiw.... I'm quite happy for people to not get vacinated.... as long as they are not permitted access to the hospital system if/when they get covid.... simple... no exceptions.... did I say no exceptions.

[slartibartfast01]

Fwiw.... I'm quite happy for people to not get vacinated.... as long as they are not permitted access to the hospital system if/when they get covid.... simple... no exceptions.... did I say no exceptions.

How do you feel about your friends refusing the vaccine?

[BigMackCam]

Fwiw.... I'm quite happy for people to not get vacinated.... as long as they are not permitted access to the hospital system if/when they get covid.... simple... no exceptions.... did I say no exceptions.

In principal, I agree... and yet... If your wife won't take the vaccine and subsequently has a heart attack or serious car accident, are you willing to accept she gets no hospital treatment because of her unvaccinated status? How about your Dad, or your son or daughter? It's trickier than it seems...

[slartibartfast01]

In principal, I agree... and yet... If your wife won't take the vaccine and subsequently has a heart attack or serious car accident, are you willing to accept she gets no hospital treatment because of her unvaccinated status? How about your Dad, or your son or daughter? It's trickier than it seems...

He did say if they get Covid not if they have a car accident.

[BigMackCam]

He did say if they get Covid not if they have a car accident.

And if they have a car accident and they're COVID-19 positive, what then? Do you deny them treatment for their injuries? Treat their injuries but not their COVID symptoms? How about if they're hospitalised for something other than COVID but catch it whilst in the hospital's care (which has happened)? Do you kick them out because they weren't vaccinated, or just deny them care for the COVID symptoms?

Next, we'll deny treatment to those that smoke (that's probably going to happen at some point)... those that drink... that eat too much... that don't eat enough of the right things (five vegetables a day etc.)... that willingly take part in dangerous sports and pastimes... tha sunbathe... etc.

I'm not trying to be difficult, but rather to say that whilst I agree emotionally with the concept that those who won't help themselves are less deserving of help, the civilised nature of our society - thank goodness - prescribes that we help people when they need it, regardless of their follies and misadventures...

[slartibartfast01]

And if they have a car accident and they're COVID-19 positive, what then? Do you deny them treatment for their injuries? Treat their injuries but not their COVID symptoms? How about if they're hospitalised for something other than COVID but catch it whilst in the hospital's care (which has happened)? Do you kick them out because they weren't vaccinated, or just deny them care for the COVID symptoms? It's not straightforward, whichever way you dice it...

Maybe it is more difficult with family but I have no intention of seeing our anti vax friends for a long time. Their point of view is that as long as other people are vaccinated they aren't harming anyone by being unvaccinated.

[BigMackCam]

Maybe it is more difficult with family but I have no intention of seeing our anti vax friends for a long time. Their point of view is that as long as other people are vaccinated they aren't harming anyone by being unvaccinated.

Agreed, 100%. I won't let anyone in our home that hasn't been vaccinated and boosted. I'm having to exclude my much-loved cousin (who my parents and I are very close to) from staying with us over Christmas and New Year because of his anti-vax stance. Honestly, I'm even wary of mixing with vaccinated and boosted folks in anything other than an outdoor setting, at least for now. Every trip to the supermarket still concerns me. I don't let it get in the way of my life, but it's on my mind...

[reh321]

Fwiw.... I'm quite happy for people to not get vacinated.... as long as they are not permitted access to the hospital system if/when they get covid.... simple... no exceptions.... did I say no exceptions.

on the local news last night, they showed federalized National Guard troops who have arrived to reinforce local hospital workers {who have long since been over-worked}.

[reh321]

Every trip to the supermarket still concerns me. I don't let it get in the way of my life, but it's on my mind...

We went grocery shopping yesterday; I had troubles social distancing while awaiting service at the checkout. They ask us to mask, but even some of their own employees don’t - and it’s not like they can be too demanding ….. they have problems finding employees as it is.

[BigMackCam]

We went grocery shopping yesterday; I had troubles social distancing while awaiting service at the checkout. They ask us to mask, but even some of their own employees don’t - and it’s not like they can be too demanding ….. they have problems finding employees as it is.

Thankfully, our supermarket staff are wearing masks again, as of recently - and they have perspex shields up at every check-out. Some customers get closer than I'd like, so when I go through check-out I trail my trolley behind me... that gives me a couple of metres of space. I get a few funny and accusatory looks, but they can look all they want...