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04-19-2021, 11:00 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by The Madshutter Quote
I would love to be one of those fools who bought a few grand worth of Bitcoin a few years ago


I own Bitcoin. I believe it's prices are manipulated and rigged. For example, last Saturday night, at around 10:30pm the Bitcoin price suddenly dropped about $8,000 USD, and then in short order went back up. Free and fair markets don't act like that!

I suspect NFTs are the same. Initially there were some widely reported NFT sales for incredible prices. I suspect it was all a show to drum up interest. Everyone I know who have entered into the NFT market has lost money. Who do you know (other than those early adopters we all read about) who has actually made money making and selling NFTs?


Last edited by Fenwoodian; 04-19-2021 at 11:10 PM.
04-19-2021, 11:26 PM - 1 Like   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fenwoodian Quote
I own Bitcoin. I believe it's prices are manipulated and rigged. For example, last Saturday night, at around 10:30pm the Bitcoin price suddenly dropped about $8,000 USD, and then in short order went back up. Free and fair markets don't act like that!

I suspect NFTs are the same. Initially there were some widely reported NFT sales for incredible prices. I suspect it was all a show to drum up interest. Everyone I know who have entered into the NFT market has lost money. Who do you know (other than those early adopters we all read about) who has actually made money making and selling NFTs?
It *was* a show! The big one was essentially a guy selling to himself.

Interestingly that's fairly common in the "normal" art market. Galleries buy work from artists they own at high prices to inflate the value of the works they own. Part of the attractiveness of the art market is that it allows people with to much money to associate with something they belive is pure namely art. It's also very interesting as a financial instrument because it's not regulated in the same way as other financial products. Arguably NFT's are hot because they are feed off techy buzzwords but also because they are a way of expanding the scammyness of the art world.

It's such an amazing amalgamation of dubious or outright dangerous (energy waste) stuff.
04-19-2021, 11:58 PM - 3 Likes   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by pkboy Quote
Any recommended reading then? I understand the concept and the technology, just the part where I post work on a marketplace so the more important bit. Any recommended platforms? Any specific to photography / digital art? What are the requirements, I imagine some digital currency wallet.. and so on.
Any NFT marketplace has their own system to get in, and since there are so many it would be impossible for me to link them all for you here - since I am on Foundation, here's the Foundation guidelines: Foundation Help Center. If you prefer a different marketplace, I recommend you go to their website and read their "how to" guides, most are very clear. Hope this helps!

QuoteOriginally posted by Fenwoodian Quote
I own Bitcoin. I believe it's prices are manipulated and rigged. For example, last Saturday night, at around 10:30pm the Bitcoin price suddenly dropped about $8,000 USD, and then in short order went back up. Free and fair markets don't act like that!

I suspect NFTs are the same. Initially there were some widely reported NFT sales for incredible prices. I suspect it was all a show to drum up interest. Everyone I know who have entered into the NFT market has lost money. Who do you know (other than those early adopters we all read about) who has actually made money making and selling NFTs?
"Physical" Art works the same way. There are inflated artists by gallerists, artists who buy their own work at auctions to inflate their own value, and so on. Same with NFT, but with a very important difference: since ALL transactions are recorded forever, and out there for everyone to see, you can very easily open any art and see the whole sequence of bids, which will make it very clear if the bidders are legit or not so legit. So, in a way, it is MORE transparent than the regular Art world.

There are many artists that are making money with NFT. To remain in the realm of photography, check out Rebuen Wu, for instance: Reuben Wu (@itsreuben) | Foundation.

As with everything new, it seems to me that there are a lot of preconceived opinions, and a lot of people expressing their opinions without really knowing what they are talking about. Which is to be expected, it's nothing new and it's the same with most things (including photography, brands etc).

My recommendation is, if you are interested, do your homework and don't believe people on forum - including me, of course I did, I got intrigued by the possibilities of NFT and I am going to pursue these possibilities and see what happens - side by side with my Fine Art prints, of course, not instead of them.

Best regards,

Vieri

Last edited by The Madshutter; 04-20-2021 at 12:06 AM.
05-03-2021, 12:27 AM   #34
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I have a scheme to create gold from seawater, breeding mules and also for a very great idea of progit for everyone but no one to know what it is. Dont fancy any of them, how about investing in tulips, very profitable.

Lots of people bought in to them already.

Ok it was a few hundred years ago and they all went bust in the end but bad ideas never really die, you just have to wait for the suckers and the mugs to forget how the game works.

To me anything without an intrinsic value based on physicality ( gold, vintage car, solid art ) is always a scam in the making. Scams dont mean people dont make money...some people always win in a scam but its always a scam none the less. See to many in my time that had lots of people convinced johoba oil for one.

05-03-2021, 03:46 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Astro-Baby Quote
To me anything without an intrinsic value based on physicality ( gold, vintage car, solid art ) is always a scam in the making. Scams dont mean people dont make money...some people always win in a scam but its always a scam none the less. See to many in my time that had lots of people convinced johoba oil for one.
Software would like to have a word with you .

---------- Post added 05-03-21 at 03:48 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Fenwoodian Quote
I own Bitcoin. I believe it's prices are manipulated and rigged
So, like the "normal" stock market? .


QuoteOriginally posted by Fenwoodian Quote
Free and fair markets don't act like that!
The cynic in me insists that the freer the market the more open to manipulation it is, in fact. A free market, by definition, won't be a fair market - it will benefit those who exploit the freedom to prey on those who don't.
05-03-2021, 03:51 AM   #36
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One of the issues are that "normal" finance, business etc. are sometimes close to scams. Adding to this the concepts of money, value etc it all gets rather complicated No wonder there's a constant creep as there is always money to be made at the edges of law, reason etc. When the foundational concepts are barely understood by anyone boundaries are even more blurred.

---------- Post added 05-03-21 at 03:56 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
Software would like to have a word with you .
But software IS very interesting. You have to create a powerful and violent legal structure to enforce scarcity of something that can be copied at no cost. The interesting thing is that that's how it works with many things it's just more obvious with software.
05-03-2021, 04:07 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
One of the issues are that "normal" finance, business etc. are sometimes close to scams. Adding to this the concepts of money, value etc it all gets rather complicated No wonder there's a constant creep as there is always money to be made at the edges of law, reason etc. When the foundational concepts are barely understood by anyone boundaries are even more blurred.

But software IS very interesting. You have to create a powerful and violent legal structure to enforce scarcity of something that can be copied at no cost. The interesting thing is that that's how it works with many things it's just more obvious with software.
Yep - even the idea of money itself as a construct is its own massive, messy can of worms.

Software (and, in general, intellectual property-related things) are indeed very interesting. On the one hand, absolute lack of protection (since there is a lack of physicality, and like you say many things can be copied at no* cost) runs the risk of removing incentives for creativity, because anyone can take advantage of your time and effort and you don't see any compensation. On the other hand, excessively aggressive legal protections remove the incentives for anyone else to iterate or improve on an idea. We all know cases of abusive patents, for example, or software with ridiculous malware-like DRM developed as part of the piracy** arms race...


*Computational power excepted, but it's more or less negligible.
**Ironically, tightening DRM to the point where the service quality for legal users suffers has the completely unexpected and unforeseen result of encouraging piracy. What are the odds.

05-03-2021, 04:21 AM - 1 Like   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Astro-Baby Quote
I have a scheme to create gold from seawater, breeding mules and also for a very great idea of progit for everyone but no one to know what it is. Dont fancy any of them, how about investing in tulips, very profitable.

Lots of people bought in to them already.

Ok it was a few hundred years ago and they all went bust in the end but bad ideas never really die, you just have to wait for the suckers and the mugs to forget how the game works.

To me anything without an intrinsic value based on physicality ( gold, vintage car, solid art ) is always a scam in the making. Scams dont mean people dont make money...some people always win in a scam but its always a scam none the less. See to many in my time that had lots of people convinced johoba oil for one.
The abundance of extremely clever people going around with their 2-bit sarcasm telling others they are fools for investing or working in cryptocurrency never cease to surprise me. True genius, congratulations.

Me, I am very sorry for not have been one of those fools who got into Bitcoin a few years back, I would have made millions out of my foolishness. Unfortunately, I was one of the "clever" ones Lesson learned, contrarily to others who persist in their "cleverness".

On a general note, I am always open to discuss anything with civil people expressing their opinions in a respectful and civilised manner. On the other hand, I have enough of a certain breed of sarcastic, rude people - to each their own, but I have nothing to say to them, sorry. You, Astro-Baby, are one of them.

Best regards,

Vieri
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