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04-10-2021, 09:04 AM   #1
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NFTs, the way of the future?

In today's fast developing cryptoworld, NFT are gaining new followers, collectors and creators everyday. While there are people on both sides of the fence, lovers and haters, supporters and denigrators, believers and sceptics, it is clear to me that NFTs are here to stay - as are blockchain and cryptocurrencies.

Personally, I find NFTs interesting for various reasons.

Commercially, I love the fact that hey are adding unicity to what would otherwise be just another digital file that everyone can copy, duplicate and share without recognising any compensation - or even credit - to the author.

Artistically, as a Fine Art landscape photographer who has been working for a long time on investigating the effects of time on still images, and on representing it in my photographs, I love the fact that they will stay around forever - as much as there can be such a thing as "forever" in the first place, of course - and that adds a layer of "timelessness" to my work on the effects of time. Plus, it gives me the possibility to play with moving stills in a way that the printed medium obviously doesn't allow me to do.

Last, I love the fact that the files are "out there" divided among all and belonging to none, so to speak - the beauty of blockchain applied to art.

Therefore, I started a Foundation account where I started collecting art, and where I also will be minting my own, starting soon now that I became a creator. Here it is, for those interested: Vieri Bottazzini (@vieribottazzini) | Foundation

So, what do you think about NFT and their application to the art of photography? Looking forward to your thoughts, best regards

Vieri

04-10-2021, 02:11 PM   #2
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Interesting concept. I read a very informative piece on it recently in the New York Times.
04-11-2021, 03:07 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
Interesting concept. I read a very informative piece on it recently in the New York Times.
Indeed, it is an interesting concept and one I am exploring - I just minted my first two works, will see what happens Best regards,

Vieri
04-11-2021, 04:06 AM   #4
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Its insanity, wont stop it spreading though. As far as I understand its generally tied to an uri? Those get lost all the time when someone forgets to renew the domain.

Its yet another example of the terrible combination of tech heads and yuppies.

Note I'm not arguing you can't make money out of it. Im arguing you shouldn't.

04-11-2021, 06:49 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
Its insanity, wont stop it spreading though. As far as I understand its generally tied to an uri? Those get lost all the time when someone forgets to renew the domain.

Its yet another example of the terrible combination of tech heads and yuppies.

Note I'm not arguing you can't make money out of it. Im arguing you shouldn't.
So basically you are telling me that you have no idea what's this is about (an url? lost when not renewing a domain??), but nevertheless is insanity and people shouldn't make money doing it?

Perhaps this might help: Why collect digital art NFTs? | Foundation

Best regards,

Vieri
04-11-2021, 07:06 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by The Madshutter Quote
So basically you are telling me that you have no idea what's this is about (an url? lost when not renewing a domain??), but nevertheless is insanity and people shouldn't make money doing it?

Perhaps this might help: Why collect digital art NFTs? | Foundation

Best regards,

Vieri
As a counterpoint:
<nettime> what does monetary value indicate?

If you are unfamiliar with the names in the thread google them and their research/publications. Some are quite prominent in the field.

A short quote from another thread linked to in that thread.
QuoteOriginally posted by Wareing:
Out of curiosity I dug into how NFT’s actually reference the media you’re “buying” and my eyebrows are now orbiting the moon

Short version:
The NFT token you bought either points to a URL on the internet, or an IPFS hash. In most circumstances it references an IPFS gateway on the internet run by the startup you bought the NFT from.
Oh, and that URL is not the media. That URL is a JSON metadata file
/…/
Which means when the startup who sold you the NFT goes bust, the files will probably vanish from IPFS too
/…/
In short: Right now NFT’s are built on an absolute house of cards constructed by the people selling them.
It is likely that _every_ NFT sold so far will be broken within a decade.
Will that make them worthless? Hard to say

“NFT startups are long-game blackmailers” is an entertaining concept
04-11-2021, 07:16 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
As a counterpoint:
<nettime> what does monetary value indicate?

If you are unfamiliar with the names in the thread google them and their research/publications. Some are quite prominent in the field.

A short quote from another thread linked to in that thread.
Well, quoting a thread where misinformation is reported is hardly evidence of anything I am suggesting at least a Wikipedia article, just for you to get acquainted with what NFTs are: Non-fungible token - Wikipedia

Best regards,

Vieri
04-11-2021, 07:22 AM   #8
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The wikipedia article actually says exactly the same thing!
QuoteOriginally posted by wikipedia:
However, data links that point to details like where the art is stored can die.
You might consider this a minor issue but you shouldn't

To clarify that's what the joking "long game blackmailer" comment is about. If someones buys your expensive nft they become very interested in you staying online. So much so that you will likely be able to extract a fee from owners just to stay online.

Much of the hoopla is engineered by people placed to make money from it. As explained in the nettime thread art has, already since before 2008, become a financial instrument in itself. NFT's are a thing because of how art has functioned in financial markets, pretty scammy stuff I can ensure you as I was very close to the top art movers around 2008-2012 when things got very extreme with Hirsts Sotherby's sale and the role of art after the crash. It's all circular monopoly stuff. Anyway the nft pushers have understood this aspect of the art market and joined it with the bitcoin/blockchain hype to create the worst possible amalgamation of some of the worst ideas this century. Because of bitcoins pyramid game structure it's vital to get in early and this thinking has been transferred to nft's. With to much money around looking for a place to invest nft's are like a seo optimized sales pitch for people with too much money. It weaves the sacred art world together with the hyped blockchain tech babble people making a very strong stew of bullshit certain to make a few people a lot of money.


Last edited by house; 04-11-2021 at 07:43 AM.
04-11-2021, 07:35 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
The wikipedia article actually says exactly the same thing!


You might consider this a minor issue but you shouldn't
You should have read better, the use of IPFS solves that - and pretty much all serious NFT websites use IPFS. The possibility that a file stored on IPFS fails is exceeding low; that is orders of magnitude lower than the possibility that anything happens to a physical paper print, or a physical painting. Just leave one under the sun for a year and you'll see where your investment is gone.

Sure, nothing is eternal, and sure, there is always the possibility of accidents. But patronisingly dismissing NFTs based on misinformation doesn't make much sense to me. Thinking that everyone using blockchains and everything based on blockchains are totally bogus, sounds pretty bizarre to me.

Best regards,

Vieri
04-14-2021, 02:35 AM   #10
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I find this NFT thing interesting, while I still don't understand everything about it. As far as I have understood, the NFT blockchain usually contains a link to the digital item's internet location. But could a checksum-like tech be used instead? The NFT would include an encrypted checksum of the media item, like a full resolution lossless image file. Would that be feasible?
04-14-2021, 03:09 AM - 4 Likes   #11
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Personally, I am concerned about the carbon footprint of running servers to maintain blockchain requirements.
Cryptocurrency mining is already a major problem in this regard, and if NFT's take off it will only be worse.
04-14-2021, 04:39 AM   #12
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Sorry to burst your bubble: NFT prices slump 70% | The Art Newspaper.
04-14-2021, 07:44 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Personally, I am concerned about the carbon footprint of running servers to maintain blockchain requirements.
Cryptocurrency mining is already a major problem in this regard, and if NFT's take off it will only be worse.
Yes, its absolutely absurd that anything requiring proof of work that equals raw energy wastage is accepted in 2021. Its a terrible idea any year but appaling in 2021. The energy cost per transaction is also very high.

Considering this a minor issue is mindblowing. But when there's money to be made people become blind to the negatives of their action. Anything can be rationalized.
04-14-2021, 08:08 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Personally, I am concerned about the carbon footprint of running servers to maintain blockchain requirements.
Cryptocurrency mining is already a major problem in this regard, and if NFT's take off it will only be worse.
About the environmental issue, that is a very real one. Personally, I do plant 250 trees for every Workshop participant joining me on my trips, to offset their carbon impact, and I funded the planting of over 13.000 trees so far. When it comes to NFTs, I am going to plant 250 / 500 trees according to the kind of work sold. Since a tree will absorb an average of a tonne of carbon each during their lifetime, I therefore will be compensating between one - and two-thousandfold for the impact of creating one artwork. Until power will come from renewable sources only (or from safe nuclear plants with no exhaust nuclear material problems), I believe that's the best I can do

And, if he refers to me, I am not even dignifying house of an answer when he says:

QuoteQuote:
...when there's money to be made people become blind to the negatives of their action.
since very few photographers and artists are as careful about their impact on the environment as I am. If he is not referring to me, then I would still ask him about what he is doing himself to preserve the environment - maybe a lot, maybe very little, but in my experience people who love to preach often fell in the category of those who see the mote in their brother's eye rather than the beam in their own, and I wouldn't be surprised if this were such a case

Best regards,

Vieri
04-14-2021, 08:35 AM   #15
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My comment was about bitcoin and similar enery wasting blockchains not about any person in particular. Apologies if that was unclear.
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