[Denver]

Wow - a lot of presumptions here?

Name the USB cable that will not work on Windows 10 that worked on previous versions. - I will wait.

What does this mean? The only file format I know of is the old *.com (16 bit) programs that do not work. MS stopped working with 16 bit programs with Windows NT 64 bit editions. But the file formats did not change.

Mac - Really - Like Apple has not changed its processors and forced their users to fork over money for their transition?
To help you remember:
Motorolla --> Power PC --> Intel --> M1 (ARM).
Over the next four or five years - Apple will force their users to buy new hardware as they phase out Intel processors to go to M1 (ARM). The vendors of the software will slowly stop building Mac specific versions for the "old" Mac hardware so the ability to have current software will slowly die.
Also, let's remember that Apple does not support previous USB plugs on its current hardware (USB-A) so just who exactly is abandoning earlier USB plugs? What about SD cards?

This old trope again. I have heard this for will over 40+ years, it is surprising that MS has been on corporate deaths door for so long. $281.92 for MS a share today.

I run my flatbed scanner on a Vista box - so what?

Again - you trot out old tropes. But you suggest that everyone go out and buy a new Apple computer. I.E. they spend money.
Microsoft supports 32 and 64 bit programs - Apple only supports 64 bit programs on Intel devices.
Your attempt to bring up Borland databases (Paradox) is laughable. Borland is gone - bought out by Corel - Paradox has not been updated since 2009. Even MySQL is better than Paradox.

In the past, Microsoft worked to ensure that new versions of windows work with old hardware and software. With this new version they have abandoned that and have refused to work with old hardware. For us home users we will suck it up and somewhere in the future will be using Windows 11. I support many small businesses as their IT person and have done that for 20 years. Many have very specialized software for their business. Replacing one to keep Redmond happy is workable but when you have 25 computers and software to replace to keep Redmond happy because they refuse to support legacy hardware with this release (which is arbitrary as the beta testing was done on older hardware by beta testers without issues) it becomes a deal-breaker. Windows 11 will be a hard sell for the business community and their IT support teams. Yes, I will delay my install of Windows 11 till everyone else has fought all the bugs and non-compatibility issues it will bring. Many of the small businesses I support have decided that they will not be upgrading as the cost is too high and will look at other operating systems in the future. There is a reason that Unix and Linex are still around and widely used. As end users, we can always vote with our wallets. And no I did not tell my business to not use Windows 11 they made their choices after talking with the developers of the highly specialized software they use (many which cost 25 to 30000 a copy).

[PDL]

You make some great points here, most of which I agree with... but my oh my, your delivery sounds awfully grumpy!

As I stated in my post - I have been listening to this ant-MS drivel ever since Windows came out. My work history is being a Windows System Administrator for two Fortune 500 global companies. I have been on several Beta's for MS and I have created system images for SW Engineering teams consisting of thousands of workstations and servers on three continents.

Grumpy? - yeah just a bit. There is nothing wrong with Apple or Linux. Windows is just a Operating System like OSX or Linux.

P.S. Of the seven devices I have running Windows - only two will pass the test for Windows 11. I am not happy, but I am not going to go make stuff up to vent about it.

---------- Post added 10-01-21 at 10:12 PM ----------

In the past, Microsoft worked to ensure that new versions of windows work with old hardware and software. With this new version they have abandoned that and have refused to work with old hardware. For us home users we will suck it up and somewhere in the future will be using Windows 11. I support many small businesses as their IT person and have done that for 20 years. Many have very specialized software for their business. Replacing one to keep Redmond happy is workable but when you have 25 computers and software to replace to keep Redmond happy because they refuse to support legacy hardware with this release (which is arbitrary as the beta testing was done on older hardware by beta testers without issues) it becomes a deal-breaker. Windows 11 will be a hard sell for the business community and their IT support teams. Yes, I will delay my install of Windows 11 till everyone else has fought all the bugs and non-compatibility issues it will bring. Many of the small businesses I support have decided that they will not be upgrading as the cost is too high and will look at other operating systems in the future. There is a reason that Unix and Linex Linux (Fixed that for you) are still around and widely used. As end users, we can always vote with our wallets. And no I did not tell my business to not use Windows 11 they made their choices after talking with the developers of the highly specialized software they use (many which cost 25 to 30000 a copy).

The companies I worked for leased their devices. Not a problem, they just roll the new devices in as the costs/hardware failures occur. In the business world hardware capitalization is a known function. If you do not let your customers know, then you are not doing a very good job.

As for specialized software, yup that happens. We had a soldering machine that ran on OS/2 in 2009 and there were a few Windows 95 boxes hidden away to support some old devices. This is nothing new. The pressure should be on the vendor to provide software that runs on the current OS. unless - the company is too cheap to pay for current software, the vendor adds "features" that are garbage or the company is getting by on the "cheap" (not buying upgrades or new licenses). And yes, I have had instances of all three of these cases.

As for UNIX - well, geez perhaps you should talk to someone who had to work with UNIX from two vendors, say HP-UX and AIX (from IBM). I remember UNIX admins pulling out their hair because they had to re-write all of their scripts due to "inconsistencies" between the UNIX versions. UNIX is not as universal as you think, same thing goes for Linux based OS's. Your mileage will vary.

---------- Post added 10-01-21 at 10:12 PM ----------

In the past, Microsoft worked to ensure that new versions of windows work with old hardware and software. With this new version they have abandoned that and have refused to work with old hardware. For us home users we will suck it up and somewhere in the future will be using Windows 11. I support many small businesses as their IT person and have done that for 20 years. Many have very specialized software for their business. Replacing one to keep Redmond happy is workable but when you have 25 computers and software to replace to keep Redmond happy because they refuse to support legacy hardware with this release (which is arbitrary as the beta testing was done on older hardware by beta testers without issues) it becomes a deal-breaker. Windows 11 will be a hard sell for the business community and their IT support teams. Yes, I will delay my install of Windows 11 till everyone else has fought all the bugs and non-compatibility issues it will bring. Many of the small businesses I support have decided that they will not be upgrading as the cost is too high and will look at other operating systems in the future. There is a reason that Unix and Linex Linux (Fixed that for you) are still around and widely used. As end users, we can always vote with our wallets. And no I did not tell my business to not use Windows 11 they made their choices after talking with the developers of the highly specialized software they use (many which cost 25 to 30000 a copy).

The companies I worked for leased their devices. Not a problem, they just roll the new devices in as the costs/hardware failures occur. In the business world hardware capitalization is a known function. If you do not let your customers know, then you are not doing a very good job.

As for specialized software, yup that happens. We had a soldering machine that ran on OS/2 in 2009 and there were a few Windows 95 boxes hidden away to support some old devices. This is nothing new. The pressure should be on the vendor to provide software that runs on the current OS. unless - the company is too cheap to pay for current software, the vendor adds "features" that are garbage or the company is getting by on the "cheap" (not buying upgrades or new licenses). And yes, I have had instances of all three of these cases.

As for UNIX - well, geez perhaps you should talk to someone who had to work with UNIX from two vendors, say HP-UX and AIX (from IBM). I remember UNIX admins pulling out their hair because they had to re-write all of their scripts due to "inconsistencies" between the UNIX versions. UNIX is not as universal as you think, same thing goes for Linux based OS's. Your mileage will vary.

With reference to your first line, yes MS has gone out of its way to be backwards compatible. However, you can read - on this site - where that has not worked out all that well. Furthermore, if you follow the thinking is some quarters, MS is so full of backwards compatible vulnerabilities that the who thing should be thrown out (Linux users love to rant about this). I think it is time to move on.

[StiffLegged]

By the time 2025 comes around, this 7th gen Intel desktop – a home-assembled case of components – will be 10 years old. If it's still working I'll worry about Windows 11 then and not before. Maybe I'll have a newer Pentax by then too, but the K-7 is still working...

[PDL]

By the time 2025 comes around, this 7th gen Intel desktop – a home-assembled case of components – will be 10 years old. If it's still working I'll worry about Windows 11 then and not before. Maybe I'll have a newer Pentax by then too, but the K-7 is still working...

My 8th Gen laptop should be OK. My 2008 Toshiba will die when I say it dies (ran Windows update to day and got a download) same with my 2011 Asus tablet will not go to 11. My 2010 24GB 7TB desktop will not run 11. By the time 2025 rolls around my current laptop will be nearly a decade old.

Most of my devices are 10 - 15 years old. I still have a Windows 2000 box (although I have not turned it on since 2001). My XP box died in 2006 and I came home and loaded Windows 7 on it (currently running Vista).

OS upgrades and their trials and tribulations are just how things are. Talk to a few Apple owners running Capture One to feel the frustration with not being able to run the latest release on "old" versions of OSX. It happens everywhere, but the tropes of MS shooting themselves in the foot, "forcing" people to upgrade, ignoring backward compatibility etc. is getting just a little old and tiresome.

Yeah I am not all that happy with MS not supporting my decade(s) old processors - How Dare They (as I climb into my 1956 Huff). But then I said the basically the same thing with just about every version of WIndows and I have used nearly every one (versions of Server software have been missed since I retired when Server 2008 R2 was the version of choice). I have threatened to quit using MS products at least once every three or four years since I started using MS-DOS back in the early 80's. However, since my paycheck was coming from supporting MS OS's, I bucked up and got back to work.

[Ex Finn.]

I am ordering a pencil sharpener from the evil website while i still can.

[Lord Lucan]

I would wait a long time before doing windows 11. We still don't know what programs will be broken by it including the many photo programs that we all use.

Good advice. Don't be an early adopter, and Win10 or earlier is not going to stop working suddenly.

Microsoft has taken a hard stance that it will not support most legacy hardware and you are SOL.

I suspect the story is not over yet. The furore so far has only been within the IT media and the technically savvy, but when the issue hits the wider world MS might back-track somewhat perhaps by issuing a version called something like a "consumer edition". Failing that, I expect there will be third party hacks.

Microsoft is doing more harm than good to its name. When you burn so many customers and do it with arrogance

Microsoft just keep getting away with it, and always have done, partly because their main money earnings are from big corporates to whom the cost of "upgrading" is chump change, and whose buyers in many cases don't have a clue about IT anyway so they just take Microsoft's word for what they "need". It was like that at my company - the IT support people knew their stuff but the equipment was dictated by the buying department who were dictated to in turn by the Microsoft reps.

It was exasperating - we had to ditch a load of our own developed software, which was working well, because one day our chairman declared that we must only use Microsoft software from then on. It was probably after he had been treated to a good lunch.

[Serkevan]

My 8th Gen laptop should be OK. My 2008 Toshiba will die when I say it dies (ran Windows update to day and got a download) same with my 2011 Asus tablet will not go to 11. My 2010 24GB 7TB desktop will not run 11. By the time 2025 rolls around my current laptop will be nearly a decade old.

Most of my devices are 10 - 15 years old. I still have a Windows 2000 box (although I have not turned it on since 2001). My XP box died in 2006 and I came home and loaded Windows 7 on it (currently running Vista).

For the record, I just checked - my 6-year old i7-6700HQ isn't supported (and the laptop itself is just 4 years old).

[slartibartfast01]

For the record, I just checked - my 6-year old i7-6700HQ isn't supported (and the laptop itself is just 4 years old).

There is this workaround.
https://www.pcgamer.com/microsoft-reveals-how-to-bypass-its-own-system-requi...or-windows-11/

[Serkevan]

There is this workaround.
https://www.pcgamer.com/microsoft-reveals-how-to-bypass-its-own-system-requi...or-windows-11/

Oh, I don't really plan to upgrade in the near future. I'll probably wait until I upgrade my laptop in the next ~3 years. I just thought it interesting that even sorta recent hardware is unsupported.

[slartibartfast01]

Oh, I don't really plan to upgrade in the near future. I'll probably wait until I upgrade my laptop in the next ~3 years. I just thought it interesting that even sorta recent hardware is unsupported.

There is no rush anyway. My laptop is only 2 years and the processor isn't supported. I'll watch and wait.

[BigMackCam]

Apparently it's going to be the middle of next year before all current Windows 10 users have been offered the free upgrade. I'll want to see what new Windows 11 users think of it and any problems they run up against before I even think of upgrading. I also understand there's only a very short window allowing reversion to Windows 10 if you don't like 11, and allegedly it requires a full, clean re-installation. I'll need to be really convinced before I accept the update...

[cdd29]

I got a pop up on my computer saying 'congratulations, this pc is capable of running Windows 11.'

Hell no...

[Wheatfield]

I would wait a long time before doing windows 11. We still don't know what programs will be broken by it including the many photo programs that we all use. Will it still interface with the USB cable for our cameras? What file formats will be left behind that we use. Microsoft has taken a hard stance that it will not support most legacy hardware and you are SOL. For the corporate user, they are really getting a screw over. This upgrade with its non useable stance for past hardware and software may drive more of the artistic community (including Photographers) to abandon Microsoft and move to the Apple universe or Linux. It's hard to understand their desire to shoot themselves in the foot. My laptop is Windows 11 compliant but I will not be upgrading as I do not know which of the many programs that I use will be able to run on it.
My older laptop that is I use with my Epson 600 is not windows 11 ready and still will use it with windows 10. I really don't want to go through the hassle of having all my scanner software maybe or not upgrade to Windows 11.
In the end, Microsoft is doing more harm than good to its name. When you burn so many customers and do it with arrogance they can become another name in the history of computers like so many others. Think of Borland and databases. From the top of the game to a footnote in history.

I was looking at what Microsoft is doing and thinking that this is what Apple does every few years when they release a new OS. Win11 might not run on some hardware, but it's pretty unlikely that it is going to stop supporting jpegs.
Regarding Apple. be careful what you wish for, they've been pulling this sort of stuff since the beginning of time.

---------- Post added Oct 14th, 2021 at 03:24 PM ----------

You make some great points here, most of which I agree with... but my oh my, your delivery sounds awfully grumpy!

Yeah, if I'd said that in that manner I'd be lucky to just get a thread ban......

---------- Post added Oct 14th, 2021 at 03:35 PM ----------

For the record, I just checked - my 6-year old i7-6700HQ isn't supported (and the laptop itself is just 4 years old).

My machine, custom built in 2016 is an i7-6700. Apparently I have to turn on TMP or some such to become compliant. I'm not going to sweat it, I fully expect a new full frame camera with 60MP to be coming out in the next couple of years and I will want to upgrade my computer at that point anyway.
I've already found a motherboard that will mount 4 of those little PCIe drives, so I know what direction I am going.

[MarkJerling]

There is this workaround.
https://www.pcgamer.com/microsoft-reveals-how-to-bypass-its-own-system-requi...or-windows-11/

Cool, thanks for posting that. Although I'll probably leave this machine on Win10 as I'm currently shopping for a new laptop.

[slartibartfast01]

Cool, thanks for posting that. Although I'll probably leave this machine on Win10 as I'm currently shopping for a new laptop.

I just tried installing Windows 11 as dual boot on a separate partition on a 7th Gen Intel laptop. It gets updates at the moment. I'll just leave it there and see if it continues to receive updates.