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10-11-2021, 02:18 AM   #1
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California to Ban Gas Powered Garden Tools

Without taking sides in this, or considering the rights and wrongs, this claim seems a massive stretch. I'm not in the USA a, let alone California. But :
QuoteQuote:
Now, state officials say running a gas-powered leaf blower for one hour emits the same amount of pollution as driving a 2017 Toyota Camry from Los Angeles to Denver, a distance of about 1,100 miles (1,770 kilometers).
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/article254897052.html

What pollution are they talking about? The leaf blower would use about 1 litre of fuel, the Camry, I don't know, but lets say it does 40 mpg so would use about 140 litres. What is it in the 1 litre that is more than in the 140 litres? Have they picked on some tiny trace element to grab the headlines? It would be interesting to see a real technical reference for this claim.

10-11-2021, 02:45 AM   #2
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Well spotted. That does seem a bit rich. Quite a lot more than a bit actually.
10-11-2021, 03:00 AM   #3
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I don't know about that specific claim. I saw a different article that said that running a leaf blower for an hour was the same as driving a car 100 miles which seems more reasonable.

The EPA says that about 20 percent of volatile organic compound pollution in the US is from gas powered implements and 30 percent of carbon monoxide emissions. As far as CO2 goes it seems that only about 5 percent of it comes from these tools.
10-11-2021, 04:11 AM - 1 Like   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
Without taking sides in this, or considering the rights and wrongs, this claim seems a massive stretch. I'm not in the USA a, let alone California. But :
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/article254897052.html

What pollution are they talking about? The leaf blower would use about 1 litre of fuel, the Camry, I don't know, but lets say it does 40 mpg so would use about 140 litres. What is it in the 1 litre that is more than in the 140 litres? Have they picked on some tiny trace element to grab the headlines? It would be interesting to see a real technical reference for this claim.
QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
Well spotted. That does seem a bit rich. Quite a lot more than a bit actually.
Are they two-stoke rather than four, perhaps? Plus, no catalytic converter...

10-11-2021, 05:02 AM - 2 Likes   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Are they two-stoke rather than four, perhaps?
Leaf blowers, strimmers, chain saws and hedgecutters tend to be two-stroke, not primarily for cheapness but because 2-stroke engines can work in any orientation - in their side, upside down - because the lube oil is in with the fuel. But California is banning gas-powered lawn mowers too, and they tend to be 4-stroke (at least the larger ones) because they remain upright. 2-stroke engines are also lighter than 4-strokes because of the absence of valve gear, so have been preferred for hand-held machines.
10-11-2021, 06:17 AM - 1 Like   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
Without taking sides in this, or considering the rights and wrongs, this claim seems a massive stretch. I'm not in the USA a, let alone California. But :
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/article254897052.html

What pollution are they talking about? The leaf blower would use about 1 litre of fuel, the Camry, I don't know, but lets say it does 40 mpg so would use about 140 litres. What is it in the 1 litre that is more than in the 140 litres? Have they picked on some tiny trace element to grab the headlines? It would be interesting to see a real technical reference for this claim.
1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 etc, etc, etc adds up

QuoteQuote:
The sale of new gas-powered leaf blowers and lawnmowers will soon be banned in California as the state aims to curb emissions from a category of small engines on pace to produce more pollution each year than passenger vehicles.

Gov. Gavin Newsom signed a new law on Saturday that orders state regulators to ban the sale of new gas-powered equipment using small off-road engines, a broad category that includes generators, lawn equipment and pressure washers.. . .

California has more than 16.7 million of these small engines in the state, about 3 million more than the number of passenger cars on the road. California was the first government in the world to adopt emission standards for these small engines in 1990. But since then, emissions in cars have vastly improved compared with smaller engines.

Now, state officials say running a gas-powered leaf blower for one hour emits the same amount of pollution as driving a 2017 Toyota Camry from Los Angeles to Denver, a distance of about 1,100 miles (1,770 kilometers). . . .
Gas-Powered Lawn Equipment Will Soon Be Banned In California – CBS Sacramento

with the issue of electrical power outages in the state the ban on gas powered generators jumps out to me

Last edited by aslyfox; 10-11-2021 at 06:31 AM.
10-11-2021, 09:24 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by aslyfox Quote
1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 etc, etc, etc adds up



Gas-Powered Lawn Equipment Will Soon Be Banned In California – CBS Sacramento

with the issue of electrical power outages in the state the ban on gas powered generators jumps out to me
Very good point. I do and I have wondered wonder how the state of California is going to cope, with their plans to ban all gas powered everythings, given that they are well known for having quite a history, of brown outs and black outs in their electrical infrastructure .

A question that comes to mind, is that a drive for little or no reliance on internal combustion power is fine, but has practical , effective planning/ building up the infrastructure, to handle future increased demands for California electrification taken place ?

To me, it would be like, I may want to drive the 1500 + miles, to the west coast, cross the Rockies in the middle of a Canadian winter, but all I have is an vehicle with a high mileage engine, dodgy cooling system and 10 year old tires that have worn badly. I have to question myself, do I have the infrastructure (my old beater car) to achieve my goal of getting to the west coast ?

Or do I need to get a whole, new infrastructure, like a new vehicle ?

10-11-2021, 10:06 AM - 1 Like   #8
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I always thought California had more leaf blowers than leaves. Anyway, I found this test:

https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/emissions-test-car-vs-truck-vs-leaf-blower.html

The 2017 Camry is a fixed case - its system is built and guaranteed to perform at a certain emissions level for 5 years, doing a defined task which is pretty easy until you get to climbing the Rockies. The leaf blower test could be anything. In my link it's a new leaf blower, but what about one that's four years old like the Camry? I think you could come up with reasonable test conditions where the leaf blower tests even worse than the Edmunds test.

I avoid small gas engines so I don't have to maintain them. My Ryobi 40V leaf blower is supposed to be rated at 59db which is another plus.
10-11-2021, 12:27 PM   #9
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That's a very interesting bit of test data. Who would have thought!
10-11-2021, 12:36 PM - 2 Likes   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
That's a very interesting bit of test data. Who would have thought!
I read about some place in California that banned watering lawns due to the shortage of water and then started handing out tickets to people for letting their lawns turn brown.
10-11-2021, 02:09 PM - 1 Like   #11
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This is an amazing thread. It is definitely apolitical for the OP, but has political overtones for many of us living on the U.S. west coast, where California's regulations tend to be a bell weather for the region.

Rather than comment directly on the bill, I will comment that the main use of the affected class of tools is by arborists, landscape and building maintenance companies, utility companies, logging companies, and similar where their use is basically stock-in-trade. I would expect significant push back from arborists and loggers having to deal with limbs and trunks far beyond the capabilities of lithium cell powered toys.

Steve

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10-11-2021, 02:30 PM - 1 Like   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I would expect significant push back from arborists and loggers having to deal with limbs and trunks far beyond the capabilities of lithium cell powered toys.

The use of battery powered tools is now widespread in the construction industry.
This is a real opportunity for smart manufacturers to advance cleaner technology.

Chris
10-11-2021, 03:47 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisPlatt Quote
The use of battery powered tools is now widespread in the construction industry.
Yes, for nail guns, drills, and such. The tech is also used by arborists for boom saws. How green the electric option is may be up for debate. My local electrical utility's source breakdown is pretty good:
  • 46% Hydroelectric (BPA via Columbia River and Snake River dams)
  • 32% Natural Gas (utility-owned gas-turbine plant)
  • 6% Nuclear (BPA via Columbia Generating Station)
  • 4% Wind (Combine Hills II wind farm)
  • 12% Market purchased (mixed source)
The low contribution from wind seems a little strange given the extensive wind farm development in the region, but the bulk of that capacity is actually owned by utilities in California and Arizona. Hydro power from the BPA (Bonneville Power Adminstration) is a bit of an environmental hot potato due to heavy impact of the dams on migratory fish runs. At least we have that option. Hydro power is a rare commodity through much of the country.


Steve
10-11-2021, 03:56 PM   #14
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I would imagine it will take many batteries to equal the productivity folks are accustomed to with their gas-powered gear.
10-11-2021, 04:05 PM - 3 Likes   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
This is an amazing thread. It is definitely apolitical for the OP, but has political overtones for many of us living on the U.S. west coast, where California's regulations tend to be a bell weather for the region.

Rather than comment directly on the bill, I will comment that the main use of the affected class of tools is by arborists, landscape and building maintenance companies, utility companies, logging companies, and similar where their use is basically stock-in-trade. I would expect significant push back from arborists and loggers having to deal with limbs and trunks far beyond the capabilities of lithium cell powered toys.

Steve

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Time to open up a chainsaw dealership in Las Vegas!
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