[frogger]

Hey, where's my '79 VW Rabbit?

Chris

If it was anything like mine it caught on fire

[ChrisPlatt]

If it was anything like mine it caught on fire

If no one was hurt, consider yourself lucky - just think how much money and grief it saved you!

Chris

[stevebrot]

that's not even close to being true. only the very first cars had any problems, (swing-axle rear suspension) and GM fixed those rather quickly. starting in 1962. results from a federal study released in 1972, three years after Corvair production ended, concluded that the Corvair was safe. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) exonerated the Corvair. hell even Don Yenko made a high performance version called the Yenko Corvair Stinger, that did rather well in SCCA. that alone speaks volumes about the car. it was also a damn good looking car, arguably one of the best GM ever produced. its a shame so many people still remember the car as being unsafe... its a damn shame.

This is quite true regarding the Corvair. What is not well-appreciated in these enlightened times is that back then most cars were dangerous and/or poorly built. Many used and/or leaked oil from the factory. The true indicator of quality construction was whether, with regular maintenance, your vehicle would make it to 100,000 miles on the original engine and transmission. Most did not. (My dad drove Buicks and he ALWAYS made it to 100,000 and beyond...)

Handling was marginal at best for many autos. The original Corvair handled about as well as its competition, but it was not a Porsche despite the similarities in drive-train layout. It was closer to a Karmann Ghia. The later years were the best with power train and handling enhancements that made the car much better to drive. I almost bought a 1966 turbo coupe in the early '70s, but decided against it due to some body rust.

Steve

[Sailor]

Handling was marginal at best for many autos. The original Corvair handled about as well as its competition, but it was not a Porsche despite the similarities in drive-train layout. It was closer to a Karmann Ghia. The later years were the best with power train and handling enhancements that made the car much better to drive. I almost bought a 1966 turbo coupe in the early '70s, but decided against it due to some body rust.

Steve

Steve, you are right on; the Corvair felt very much like a KG. Also, the Corvair, the Vega, the '65 full-sized Ford, and other cars were introduced before being "completely engineered." Many ran on two-ply tires with drum brakes, but had 325 HP under the hood. Muscle Cars, after all, were simply cheap, mom-and-pop sedans with big mills and fancy decals. Not to say I didn't love 'em then or don't love 'em now!

For example, I owned a '69 Mach I Mustang - I adored it, but the chassis wasn't up to the engine.

Jer

[Tom S.]

Regarding the Corvair, in the beginning, Chevrolet noted the handling properties were suspect and needed a stabilizer bar. The bean counters determined that the car was safe enough without the added cost, which at the time would have added about $15 per vehicle. As is often the case, bean counter decisions are often cause for customer dissatisfaction. In the case of the the Corvair, it also caused the ire of Ralph Nader. While Nader was later proven wrong in his assessment of the car's safety, the fact remains that had Chevy added the stabilizer bar, the car probably would have never been noticed by the self appointed consumer advocate.

Ralph Nader aside, the Corvair suffered numerous other defects that while not of the safety variety, let to numerous complaints. For instance, GM was forced to reimburse numerous owners when it was determined the heaters were defective. The engines were also a source of numerous complaints ranging from oil leaks to over heating. One particular flaw could prove deadly: due the heater design, exhaust leaks could fill the car with carbon dioxide. Additional engine problems were timing and carburetor (especially on the Monza/Spyder dual carb), broken valves and pistons.

[reeftool]

The Corvair was air cooled and the heater was nothing more than ducted air from an engine shroud around the exhaust manifold. VW's were similar. Exhaust leaks which will eventually happen on any car as it gets old ended up blowing in your face. The optional heaters mentioned started out as aftermarket products for VW vans and are similar to small hot air furnaces in operation and its possible for them to misfire and load up with fuel. These same heaters are still on the market today and are used as cargo heaters and also cab heaters in trucks as most states have laws against idling now. They come in gas or diesel models.

[RoxnDox]

Steve, you are right on; the Corvair felt very much like a KG. Also, the Corvair, the Vega, the '65 full-sized Ford, and other cars were introduced before being "completely engineered." Many ran on two-ply tires with drum brakes, but had 325 HP under the hood. Muscle Cars, after all, were simply cheap, mom-and-pop sedans with big mills and fancy decals. Not to say I didn't love 'em then or don't love 'em now!

For example, I owned a '69 Mach I Mustang - I adored it, but the chassis wasn't up to the engine.

Jer

And I owned a '73 Vega (put a new engine in it), and a 2001 Aztek (loved it, traded it in after 79,000 miles on a new small commutermobile).

Jim

[cmv]

that list is idiotic. the reasons behind some of the choices is mind boggling. most have nothing to do with the car itself.

Here, here. I was just coming back to say the same. Although after getting half way through, it is a fun and entertaining read. How could they slag on the "1985 Mosler Consulier GTP" though? Maybe I just like boxy cars .

edit: Ah! The top shot of the Mosler Consulier GTP is deceiving. It is one fugly car:

http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper274/stills/3b7xa3x3.jpg

[Sailor]

And I owned a '73 Vega (put a new engine in it), and a 2001 Aztek (loved it, traded it in after 79,000 miles on a new small commutermobile).

Jim

I endured a Vega for a time, as well. Builds character.

Jer

[Nature_30]

Got to admit his reasoning is helter skelter. I don't think a vehicle that is innovative or ahead of its time should be on that kind of list. I felt most of his choices were bogus. What he should have done was shorten the list and place the really bad ones on it.

I was really suprised that the Yugo didn't find it's way on there. BUT ...., it was nice to see some of the more unusual vehicles.

[RoxnDox]

I endured a Vega for a time, as well. Builds character.

Jer

Actually, I loved that car. Cute little '73 hatchback coupe, it handled wonderfully and had plenty of pep to it. Granted, not all models did (mine was a factory special "millionth Vega" with better engine/tranny/drivetrain). I got it from my aunt for $75, learned a lot by putting in a new engine with steel-sleeved block, drove it a few years and sold it to a high school kid for $600

And, as it turned out, the new engine was not necessary... My aunt basically gave it to me because it was burning 2 quarts of oil a week. AFTER getting the new engine 90 percent reassembled, we went to clean out the oil pan, and found a hole in hte damn thing from a bump she had hit. A $10 fix would have gotten the problem taken care of for quite awhile, considering the original aluminum cylinders were in good shape.

Wish I still had that car. It was fun!

Jim

[GaryML]

I agree with the Chevette being one of the best small cars. One of my first cars was a Chevette. It got excellent fuel mileage. I put 200,000 on it and it leaked no oil!. The only thing I had to do to it was put in a clutch. I gave it to a friend who put another 30,000 miles on it. I liked the fact that the Chevette was also rear wheel drive.

I disagree about the Chevette. I had the misfortune of owning one of these things many years ago (a 1981 model as I recall). Badly designed and poorly built. The assembly quality was terrible, with ill fitting panels on the exterior and interior. Everything looked and felt cheap. And of course the thing broke all the time requiring constant repair. It was slow, noisy, and ugly. With rear wheel drive it performed poorly in the snow, and had a very cramped interior due to the large hump for the drive shaft. Lousy fuel economy for a small and cheap car (maybe 25 mpg max on the freeway).

Some of the pleasure of this car: You couldn't turn the heat off (factory A/C model - you choose heat or A/C - nothing in-between). The engine front crank damper assembly was under-designed and the retaining bolt holding the front pulley to the damper snapped when I was driving it. An updated part was available from Chevy but no recall on this item. Thanks Chevy - I love being stranded! The heater core failed at about 25,000 miles since it was made of paper-thin aluminum. The water pump bearing failed catastrophically allowing its pulley to twist and knot up all of the fan belts, again stranding me on the side of the freeway. It leaked some sticky white goop into the front passenger foot well from some sound insulation (white goop in a plastic bag - great design)! I could go on and on, but you get the idea.

I owned some old klunkers as a starving student for many years (college, grad school and then professional school). The Chevette is the clear winner as the worst car that I have ever owned.

[RobA_Oz]

I can understand the Renault Dauphine appearing on that list, for the sole reason that they rusted faster than Alfas of ten years later! Performance, however, was another thing altogether. While the standard car was slow by comparison with contemporary larger-engined barges from the other side of the Atlantic, the Gordini version was far from slow. Finding one that hasn't melted into the countryside by now might be a problem, though.

On the other hand, the MGA twin-cam and the Lotus Elite hardly deserve inclusion in the list. If you can find either one cheap nowadays, you should get hold of it quickly. They mightn't be as rare as a Dauphine Gordini, but they're highly prized, and priced accordingly.

The Triumph Stag, like the Elite, is also a car dogged by a problem that was identified and fixed relatively early. There are plenty around still, and their value continues to increase.

Too much time on their hands, prejudice and plain old ignorance in this list.

[ll_coffee_lP]

Hey, where's my '79 VW Rabbit?

Chris

I love the VW Rabbit. Owned one before and own a new one now.

c[_]

[rormeister]

I don't think a vehicle that is innovative or ahead of its time should be on that kind of list.

He hit a home run with the TR-7. I had one, thought if TR-6 was good, 7 is better. HA. It was really "The Shape Of Things To Come APART! Suspension bolts would literally fly off the car at all times. If you turned the wheel a bit too far, it would tear out of your hand, locking the wheels in the direction of the turn and you're just along for the ride. Lemon if ever there was one.