[pschlute]

I have been a member of this forum for 15 years. I fear after this post I may be no longer ?

I understand that political discussions are frowned upon, like almost all the other forums I am a member of. But is that right ?

Yes we are Pentax shooters, but we are also citizens of the world. If it right for nation states of which the majority of forum members belong, to sanction a country for its actions...why cannot it be mentioned ?

Sporting bodies like The Olympic committee; FIA (F1); FIDE (Chess); FIFA... refuse to allow certain countries to take part in events. Most large Western companies are withdrawing from the country

The country in question (Russia) has completely banned the free press. The military invasion of a free sovereign nation, involving: bombing hospitals; maternity wards; civilian apartments; a theatre where over 1,000 people were sheltering ... none of this is known to the population of Russia, because it has been censored.

So why Pentax Forums do you too censor us ?

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

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Last edited by pschlute; 03-18-2022 at 12:30 PM.

[BigMackCam]

I understand the desire to express political opinion, but it's so divisive. Even when the vast majority of the free world under democratic administration agrees with a high level central tenet, there's a multitude of individual opinions on finer related points that can be incredibly polarising and emotive. Once you allow discussion of these things in a forum like this, it's not long at all before you'll end up with arguments between members, tempers boiling over, breaking of friendships, or some members no longer taking part - or feeling generally unwelcome - because of specific political beliefs they hold, or simply their country of domicile or birth.

There are lots of social media outlets and other communities for folks to discuss politics, religion, etc. I think it's great that these things are kept out of PentaxForums. As I see it, this place brings us together through a common interest... and allowing political and/or religious discussion will end up pulling us (or some of us) apart.

I'm following the news hourly through various trusted distribution channels, and doing my little bit (such as it is) for the humanitarian efforts, but I'm doing that away from these forums. This is the little oasis I visit to decompress and discuss Pentax and photography, away from (well, mostly away from) the world's troubles and my own...

EDIT: My oldest friend and I differ in our basic political beliefs, and we've learned that we're both passionate enough about them that even as the best of friends, who've never fallen out once in 40 years, politics is the one thing that could feasibly cause us to do so. Whenever I'm lucky enough to talk or meet up with my good old buddy, we steer clear of politics

[pschlute]

I understand the desire to express political opinion

Mike, you know I love your posts and knowlege about photography in general and Pentax in particular, but you miss my point.

This is terrorism we are witnessing...not politics.

Am I wrong to condemn a murderer or a torturer ?

My father was at school when his country, Holland was invaded in 1939. He spent the last two years of the war in a hole under his parents house with his four brothers...with a pot between them to piss in, fearful they would be arrested and sent to Germany to work in the munitions factory. He never spoke of this to me, but i found out from my uncles. He would be turning in his grave. What Putin is doing is not politics....it is murder.

[aslyfox]

I love to discuss politics but

it is getting harder and harder to do so

instead more and more people argue about politics

I understand the forums' fear about " the slippery slope " which might lead to political discussions here

I have noticed that some have found ways to indicate support

good for them

[BigMackCam]

Mike, you know I love your posts and knowlege about photography in general and Pentax in particular

Likewise, mate. I hope I can safely say we're forum friends who agree on much and like / respect each other enough to be able to disagree occasionally too

but you miss my point. This is terrorism we are witnessing...not politics.

Am I wrong to condemn a murderer or a torturer ?

You're not at all wrong to condemn a murderer or torturer - of course not. The problem arises when that individual is a political figure, because whenever you discuss their activities, it has an indelible link to politics... so even if your original intent in a discussion isn't at all political, another member will steer the discussion that way soon enough

[Parallax]

I understand that political discussions are frowned upon, like almost all the other forums I am a member of. But is that right ?

Is it right?
I'll answer your question another way. I'll answer your question with a question at the end, but first:

<In my best Rod Serling voice>
Imagine if you will the following scene: Your living room on Super Bowl Sunday.
As a superfan you've invited several other enthusiasts over to watch the game. Your invited guests are enjoying the game talking about football in general, the plays, the individual players, the coaches, the referees, the halftime show, etc. All things football. Then one of the invited guests says "what do you all think should be done about the world's problems?"
"Awe, c'mon, we're watching the game."
"I know, but there are horrible things happening in the world."
"Yes, but we're all here just to relax, watch the game, and leave the outside world outside for a bit, so please............."
Then another invited guest or two join in. "But, but, it's important that these things be discussed."
Do you think it would be wrong of you to politely explain to those invited guests, that though you are sympathetic to their position, it is your house and you don't want the discussion held there? After all, there are plenty of other places where this type of discussion is welcomed and encouraged.

There is another aspect of the issue relative to the forum. We have a published set of rules; one of which prohibits political discussion and commentary. When members join the forum they are required to acknowledge those rules and agree to them. No one here has been caught off guard by the rule.

My question:
"Is it wrong?" Is it wrong for the owner of a property, either physical or virtual, to set rules or limits for his invited guests?

[timb64]

Them’s the rules,end of story.

[Unregistered User 8]

Is it right?
I'll answer your question another way. I'll answer your question with a question at the end, but first:

<In my best Rod Serling voice>
Imagine if you will the following scene: Your living room on Super Bowl Sunday.
As a superfan you've invited several other enthusiasts over to watch the game. Your invited guests are enjoying the game talking about football in general, the plays, the individual players, the coaches, the referees, the halftime show, etc. All things football. Then one of the invited guests says "what do you all think should be done about the world's problems?"
"Awe, c'mon, we're watching the game."
"I know, but there are horrible things happening in the world."
"Yes, but we're all here just to relax, watch the game, and leave the outside world outside for a bit, so please............."
Then another invited guest or two join in. "But, but, it's important that these things be discussed."
Do you think it would be wrong of you to politely explain to those invited guests, that though you are sympathetic to their position, it is your house and you don't want the discussion held there? After all, there are plenty of other places where this type of discussion is welcomed and encouraged.

There is another aspect of the issue relative to the forum. We have a published set of rules; one of which prohibits political discussion and commentary. When members join the forum they are required to acknowledge those rules and agree to them. No one here has been caught off guard by the rule.

My question:
"Is it wrong?" Is it wrong for the owner of a property, either physical or virtual, to set rules or limits for his invited guests?

This sums up the situation we all find ourselves in perfectly.

[aaacb]

This is not politics.

[BigMackCam]

This is not politics.

Perhaps not directly, but because of the actors involved, it's inseperable from politics... so, at the very least, discussion of non-political elements acts as a lead-in to political opinion and discussion... and division. Plus, of course, there's the potential discouragement / exclusion issues I mentioned pertaining to certain members based on their country of domicile or birth. That's a considerable aspect we shouldn't forget, IMHO...

[Unregistered User 8]

Them’s the rules,end of story.

While technically correct, Tim, a little harsh in the delivery methinks.

As to the OP's genuine, heartfelt concerns, there are many members (I'm one of 'em) that come to the forums to get away from topics that polarize because I know their discussion is forbidden. I need a safe space, free from other opinions, to digest for myself what I have seen on every news bulletin, or read in every newspaper, or heard every time I put on the radio. Too much information can be just as damaging as too little IMO. To be sad, or angry, or feel helpless at the atrocities of the world 24/7 is not healthy. The forums are an oasis where I/we can escape the real world for a little while. It is one of the few places left.

Edit - There is nothing stopping like-minded members from swapping PM's though.......

[timb64]

While technically correct, Tim, a little harsh in the delivery methinks.

As to the OP's genuine, heartfelt concerns, there are many members (I'm one of 'em) that come to the forums to get away from topics that polarize because I know their discussion is forbidden. I need a safe space, free from other opinions, to digest for myself what I have seen on every news bulletin, or read in every newspaper, or heard every time I put on the radio. Too much information can be just as damaging as too little IMO. To be sad, or angry, or feel helpless at the atrocities of the world 24/7 is not healthy. The forums are an oasis where I/we can escape the real world for a little while. It is one of the few places left.

Edit - There is nothing stopping like-minded members from swapping PM's though.......

Sorry if it comes across as harsh and I fully understand the wish to express our sorrow and dismay about the tragedy currently unfolding but I’ve been about on PF long enough to realise these things usually take a turn where they are not regarded as acceptable or conducive to the principles of the site and I have no problem with that.

[RoxnDox]

Back on the days when PF had a sub forum for politics and religion, the one thing you could always count on was the descent into chaos, no matter how innocent a topic may have been to start. There’s very good reason it was known as the cesspool.

No, you are absolutely not wrong to stand up for your principles. Yes, many/most of us are in agreement with you. No, PF is not a place where we want to have those discussions. We need a place without a cesspool, and the rules give us that. Political talk can take place in other arenas. Please!

[Ex Finn.]

Oh c`mon, that sub-forum was pretty entertaining for the most part.

[StiffLegged]

I’ve spent some years on another (unrelated) forum with the same rules and same facility - thorny political stuff is redirected to another forum site where people vent if they want to. I’ve looked in there but it’s not my idea of fun.