[Lord Lucan]

There are some very weak links in the royal descent. Henry Tudor (who became Henry VII) had one of the weakest; his father was a Welsh nobleman and his claim was through his English mother, Lady Margaret Beaufort as a great-great-grand-daughter of Edward III. Critics say his only claim was that he found Richard III's Crown of England lying under a thorn bush after the Battle of Bosworth. After Henry had won the battle he quickly consolidated by marrying Elizabeth of York, a daughter of Edward IV (Richard III's brother), but some believe that Edward IV was illegitimate (fathered by a common soldier) and had no Plantagenet blood in him anyway.

Margaret Beaufort gave birth to the future Henry VII at the age of 13, and it nearly killed her. But she survived even into Henry VIII's reign, becoming one of the greatest bitches in English history. Some historians believe it was her who arranged the murders of the Princes in the Tower, to clear the way to the throne for her own son, and to discredit Richard III at the same time.

Here is a photo I took of Henry Tudor when he was a baby, with Margaret and nurses at Pembroke Castle in 1457. Margaret, in red, and already a widow for the first time, looks somewhat older and in a somewhat better shape than I would have expected.

PS : For a portrait of Elizabeth of York, she is the Queen of Hearts in a pack of playing cards.

Lady Margaret Beaufort with the baby Henry Tudor, later Henry VII
Pembroke Castle, South-West Wales

Pentax K-1, DFA 24-70mm @24mm Available light.

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Last edited by Lord Lucan; 06-05-2022 at 04:34 AM. Reason: Added PS

[StiffLegged]

…Here is a photo I took of Henry Tudor when he was a baby, with Margaret and nurses at Pembroke Castle in 1457. Margaret, in red, and already a widow for the first time, looks somewhat older and in a somewhat better shape than I would have expected.

PS : For a portrait of Elizabeth of York, she is the Queen of Hearts in a pack of playing cards.

Far be it from me, but I’m sure I saw the same tableau last summer in Pembroke castle. You may be impressed that Margaret is remarkably well preserved for 564 years, but it’s really high time Henry was weaned.

[MarkJerling]

I recently had fun tracing my ancestry back.

Cerdic, King of Wessex (467-534AD) -> Creoda Cerdicsson -> Cynric, King of Wessex -> Ceawlin, King of Wessex -> Cuthwine of Wessex ->
Cuthwolf of Wessex -> Ceolwald of Wessex -> Cenred of Wessex -> Ingrid of Wessex -> Eoppa of Wessex -> Ealhmund, King of Kent, -> Ecgberht, King of Wessex -> Aethelwulf, King of Wessex -> Alfred the Great, King of the Anglo-Saxons -> Baudouin II -> Arnoul -> Baldwin III -> Arnoul II Le Comte de Flandre -> Baudouin IV, Comte de Flandre -> Baudouin V, Comte de Flandre -> William the Conqueror -> Henry I -> Geoffroy V Plantagenet -> Henry II, King of England -> John I, King of England -> Henry III, King of England -> Edward I, King of England -> Margaret, Dutchess of Brabant -> Johann III von Brabant -> Marguarite de Brabant -> Beatrix van Vlaanderen -> Philipine Tyncke -> Constantia van der Bruggen -> Johan Markus Coeymans -> Jeronimus Jansz Coijmans -> Casper Joost Jan Coijmans -> Abraham de Visscher -> Conraet de Visscher -> Jan Coenraad Visser -> Gerrit Jansz Visscher -> Johannes Visser -> Floris Johannes Visser -> Jacobus Visser -> Floris Johannes Visser -> Christiaan Burger Visser -> Hilletje Aletta Visser -> Jacobus Nicolaas Johannes Theart -> Arabella Theart -> me.

No, I was not invited to the jubilee. Dang.

[MarkJerling]

I will believe that England is a republic as soon as they can produce a constitution.

The UK's "Constitution" (and also New Zealand's) many not be one single document, but parts of it is pretty old.

The Magna Carta dates from 15 June 1215.

[RobA_Oz]

I recently had fun tracing my ancestry back.

Cerdic, King of Wessex (467-534AD) -> Creoda Cerdicsson -> Cynric, King of Wessex -> Ceawlin, King of Wessex -> Cuthwine of Wessex ->
Cuthwolf of Wessex -> Ceolwald of Wessex -> Cenred of Wessex -> Ingrid of Wessex -> Eoppa of Wessex -> Ealhmund, King of Kent, -> Ecgberht, King of Wessex -> Aethelwulf, King of Wessex -> Alfred the Great, King of the Anglo-Saxons -> Baudouin II -> Arnoul -> Baldwin III -> Arnoul II Le Comte de Flandre -> Baudouin IV, Comte de Flandre -> Baudouin V, Comte de Flandre -> William the Conqueror -> Henry I -> Geoffroy V Plantagenet -> Henry II, King of England -> John I, King of England -> Henry III, King of England -> Edward I, King of England -> Margaret, Dutchess of Brabant -> Johann III von Brabant -> Marguarite de Brabant -> Beatrix van Vlaanderen -> Philipine Tyncke -> Constantia van der Bruggen -> Johan Markus Coeymans -> Jeronimus Jansz Coijmans -> Casper Joost Jan Coijmans -> Abraham de Visscher -> Conraet de Visscher -> Jan Coenraad Visser -> Gerrit Jansz Visscher -> Johannes Visser -> Floris Johannes Visser -> Jacobus Visser -> Floris Johannes Visser -> Christiaan Burger Visser -> Hilletje Aletta Visser -> Jacobus Nicolaas Johannes Theart -> Arabella Theart -> me.

No, I was not invited to the jubilee. Dang.

I take it the kill list to get you first in line for the throne would be fairly long.

[gaweidert]

I take it the kill list to get you first in line for the throne would be fairly long.

Fairly long list but in keeping with the activities of some of his ancestors. What about the real king of England? A man named Michael who lives in Australia?


BTW, William the Conqueror was the great, great, great grandson of Rollo. Rollo is the founder of every royal house in Europe. He was also the brother of the legendary Ragnar Lodbrok. Now Lodbrok means leather breeches. They were to Spandex of their day. So another family rules England while you wear Spandex while cycling. Think of this as a tribute to your many times great uncle.

[pschlute]

Rio and Ripley just could not help themselves, and had to get involved.......

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[c.a.m]

Rio and Ripley just could not help themselves, and had to get involved.......

They enjoy marm'lade, do they?

[MarkJerling]

Fairly long list but in keeping with the activities of some of his ancestors. What about the real king of England? A man named Michael who lives in Australia?


BTW, William the Conqueror was the great, great, great grandson of Rollo. Rollo is the founder of every royal house in Europe. He was also the brother of the legendary Ragnar Lodbrok. Now Lodbrok means leather breeches. They were to Spandex of their day. So another family rules England while you wear Spandex while cycling. Think of this as a tribute to your many times great uncle.

[MarkJerling]

I take it the kill list to get you first in line for the throne would be fairly long.

Considering that Edward the 1st was my great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather, sadly yes.