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09-13-2022, 04:18 PM   #1
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sudo, sudo, sudo

As I mentioned in an earlier thread, I am trying Linux (Lubuntu) on an old 2012 Hewlett-Packard PC.

I have Linux up and running and I even have a wireless internet connection with Firefox. Wonderful!

But what is all this command line stuff? I can't remember the last time I used a command line. My computing goes back to 1982 and an Apple //e. I have had a variety of Apple and MS Dos machines along with Mac and Windows units. But have I seen a command line in the last 30 years? I sure am seeing it with Linux and I am not doing well with it.

Some things seem to work okay, but some things are frustrating and/or confusing. I click on a desktop icon (i.e. Libre Write) and it asks me if I want to Open or Execute. Can I get this to just automatically execute?

Why is installing a program such a project? This is a tarball and that is an appimage. It seems neither gets everything done. There is always something else to do. I installed the Arduino IDE (coding platform for Arduino microprocessors) and find I need to add some sort of permission to select a port to connect the computer to the microprocessor. I am not doing well with this, but I will persist.

Tonight or tomorrow I will try installing Darktable and Raw Therapee. Fingers crossed.

Most of the how-to resources I have found seem to fumble the ball when explaining things. They carefully explain part of something and then fall into jargon to complete the discussion. The result is I end up researching to understand an explanation. Aaarrgh!

Anyway, if you are a Linux user and can point me toward any resources that are aimed at the ultimate Linux newbie, it would be appreciated.

09-13-2022, 04:39 PM   #2
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Ubuntu user since about 2010 here and still fumble when it comes to the terminal.
But then I rarely use it.
I have never had a situation where the system asks me "
QuoteOriginally posted by AggieDad Quote
I click on a desktop icon (i.e. Libre Write) and it asks me if I want to Open or Execute.
"
Something is wrong in your setup.
And regarding installing programs I rarely use the command line (unless I have clear and simple commands to copy/paste).
The default installer suffices but I also install "Synaptic Package Manager" and use that in preference.
09-13-2022, 06:19 PM   #3
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Thanks for responding. I wish I could figure out how to not use the terminal. I am sure I will eventually (if I have the patience).

What is the default installer and where would I find it?

I didn't install the Libre Office – it was installed when I installed Lubuntu. What I did was was drag and copy the icon to the desktop.
09-13-2022, 06:56 PM   #4
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I don't know anything about the QT desktop but it looks like your software installer is called " If you need more, you can use the Discover Software Center to download the required app that suits your needs, for free."
https://lubuntu.me/
If you can't find it try your terminal with ' discover software centre'
Someone needs to confirm this for me but I believe Lubuntu is just Ubuntu with a different desktop (and default apps).
If you are disliking the usability of the interface (desktop) then you could try installing Gnome 3 desktop which is the default Ubuntu one. It is because of Gnome 3 that I stick with Ubuntu.
This "lightweight" concept of the lubuntu build is not as relevant as you may think. I have Ubuntu with Gnome running nicely on netbooks.

09-13-2022, 06:58 PM   #5
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https://distrowatch.com/
09-13-2022, 07:17 PM   #6
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I'm not too familiar with Lubuntu, although I did use Kubuntu (and my wife still does) before switching distros several years ago. If I were in your shoes I'd start here:
https://manual.lubuntu.me/stable/
For desktop icons, looks like Chapter 5.2 would be the place to start. Hope that helps a little bit...
09-13-2022, 10:04 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by AggieDad Quote
... But what is all this command line stuff?
My first Linux installation was in 1993. Today, you got it easy!

Linux is a Unix-like operating system steeped in the command line tradition. The desktop GUI is a client/server model where the GUI is not necessary have an up-and-running lightweight operating system like when used as a headless router or radio to copper bridge. And a savvy Linux user learns the command line. And most likely the people maintaining the operating system are very savvy users and programmers that probably find it much faster, easier and more consistent to write a how-to using the command line tools than a GUI version. And another important thing to remember is how much did you pay for the operating system. That will explain a lot.

09-13-2022, 10:43 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
And another important thing to remember is how much did you pay for the operating system. That will explain a lot.
No it explains nothing - I am constantly amazed and how comprehensive , sophisticated and up to date the open source world is. My Ubuntu use utilises the command line occasionally but mostly there is a graphical interface that is more than up to the job. That this is created and supplied free make you realise just how oppressive the Windows etc environment is. I feel history will perceive these parasites as a major setback to this era of software development.
Either the LXQt desktop has regressed into the command line world or user error is at play. I suspect the second and I sympathise very much with Aggiedad - the learning curve at the beginning has to be very steep.
09-14-2022, 02:53 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by AggieDad Quote
But what is all this command line stuff? I can't remember the last time I used a command line.
I am using it several times a day. I keep a command line session open all the time because it is the quickest way to do a lot of things. The bash * command line application is immensely powerful and can do far more than any GUI could ever do, low level disk formatting stuff for one example. For another, if I want to see my disk space I type df -h almost by muscle memory and I get an instant answer. You can install bash in Windows, and many Windows power users do so.

QuoteOriginally posted by AggieDad Quote
I click on a desktop icon (i.e. Libre Write) and it asks me if I want to Open or Execute. Can I get this to just automatically execute?
Yes. You need to set the icon's response to a click. I'm not a fan of icons, I do most things from the start menu, so I can't advise how and it depends on your desktop.

QuoteOriginally posted by AggieDad Quote
Why is installing a program such a project?
Depends on who wrote the program. In many cases it does it the simple way you would like, in others it does not and you need to get into the settings.

QuoteOriginally posted by AggieDad Quote
Anyway, if you are a Linux user and can point me toward any resources that are aimed at the ultimate Linux newbie, it would be appreciated.
I'm not a newbie so I'm not familiar with the available help for newbies. However I would recommend the O'Reilly books such as this one :
Linux in a Nutshell, 6th Edition [Book]

QuoteOriginally posted by GUB Quote
Someone needs to confirm this for me but I believe Lubuntu is just Ubuntu with a different desktop (and default apps).
Yes. While most Linux distros ("distro" means variety) come with a default desktop, you can install any other available desktop you like. I use the KDE desktop on the Devuan distro. "Linux" covers what are effectively many different operating systems sharing the low-level kernel.

QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Linux is a Unix-like operating system steeped in the command line tradition.
Windows has a command line pedigree too, going back to the can of worms that was DOS. Microsoft are just good at hiding the command line these days, but it is there. I think they call it the "Power Shell", I did manage to find it once on a Win10 system by digging deep, and if it had been my PC I would have moved it to a more prominent place in the menus. Similar with Apple PCs, they have bash installed by default last time I looked. Apple PCs actually run on a version of Unix set up in a very polished way. Linux is actually another version of Unix (but possibly some controversy there).

QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
And another important thing to remember is how much did you pay for the operating system. That will explain a lot.
At one time, Apple users had to pay extra for the command line - they called it the developer's kit or something.

Linux is an extremely versatile system. It can be adapted how you want it, as a server that has only a command line that is not even looked at for years (I have one such), or as a graphical interface that is so dumb that granny can use it. Android phones run on Linux, but most users are unaware and wouldn't care anyway. There is vastly more software available for Linux in its various forms than for Windows or anything else, some of it written very professionally (such as by IBM or even Microsoft!) and some of it by rank amateurs such as me.

It is true that you need to know your way around all this, and there is a learning curve. It is not a clone of Windows as some expect it to be, and those people tend to forget that they have got where they are on Windows via a learning curve.

* bash - the born again shell
09-14-2022, 08:21 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
Windows has a command line pedigree too,
I think you can make some computer knowledge assumptions about a person who installed and used Linux as far back as 1993. I have wrote a lot of code in my time using many different languages ranging from 8088/80286 Assembly Language to Powershell scripts. I wrote utility applications on Linux for work at one time too. I build my own headless firewall routers and radio to copper bridges on embedded devices using OpenBSD and even made an agitation machine to develop my film. So, yes, I'm very familiar with the command line in Windows and Mac too.

I built this machine from scratch in 2007 and even made my own single layer circuit boards for it. This machine runs OpenBSD for an operating system and the workings is programmed with Python. It has a stepper motor, serial controller and wireless access point running on a Sokeris net4801 general purpose communications board.



New And Improved Ag-O-Matic II
by tuco, on Flickr

Last edited by tuco; 09-14-2022 at 12:52 PM.
09-14-2022, 09:38 AM   #11
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When my boys were still home they wanted me to install Linux on one of our older computers. So we went through the process and they were all excited until we came to the command prompt. I gave them a Linux book and told them, now you really learn how to operate a computer. They lost interest pretty quick.
09-14-2022, 11:12 AM   #12
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Windows : DA lens :: Linux : M lens

They both get you to the same place, it's just that one takes a little bit more know-how and button pushing to get there.

Just wait 'till you dig into that Darktable manual...

(your current editor) : DA :: Darktable : M
09-14-2022, 11:13 AM   #13
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Historically the biggest hurdle people seem to have with Linux is that you should install all apps through the "app store". Windows users were used to downloading from the website of each software.Now though app stores are on all phones and on windows and macos so that shouldn't be an issue anymore?

** To have a smooth experience on linux you should use the distro package manager and it's "app store" equivalent user interface. **

If you really want apps from outside the store it gets slightly more complicated. You're going outside of the carefully coordinated system. That said there are quite a few different systems now for easy sideloading of apps. Flatpak, Appimage etc. Just install the tools to handle said app type via the distro package manager.

The confirmation before executing a file is similar to what happens on other os. It's there to prevent your computer from being taken over by malicious hackers.
09-14-2022, 06:03 PM   #14
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Ubuntu is pretty good, but if you’re not thrilled with the command line, learning new things and having a long-term science project for a laptop, you might want to consider windows or osx.
If you stick with it though, Linux is lots of fun. Easy for me to say I guess, I predate Linux (been using unix in one flavour or another for 40 yrs or so) - if you end up needing a specific question answered by all means post!
09-15-2022, 03:00 AM - 2 Likes   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sir Nameless Quote
Windows : DA lens :: Linux : M lensThey both get you to the same place, it's just that one takes a little bit more know-how and button pushing to get there.
We usually get car analogies, but for camera analogies I would say :

macOS = Up-market P&S
Windows = Prosumer with scene selection modes and a 15-500 mm (equivalent) lens
Linux = Full frame DSLR with no scene selection modes and bring your own lens

QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
Historically the biggest hurdle people seem to have with Linux is that you should install all apps through the "app store". Windows users were used to downloading from the website of each software.
Most people don't get that far. The first hurdle is installing it, and then they realise it won't run their favourite Windows apps. You are not restricted to downloading apps from the Linux repositories, you can download from websites too. I have a website from which you can download a Linux app, but a better known example is Firefox - it is in the repositories too but probably not the latest version.

I don't find installing Windows particularly easy (I have some versions in VMs), in fact harder than installing Linux. That's to be expected because most people never have to install Windows because most home PCs have it pre-installed as an image by the makers. OTOH entities like Ubuntu have to lean over backwards to make it easy for the amateur to install. I also find Windows harder to administer, in fact extremely frustrating, when I have to sort out Lady L's Win10 laptop when things go wrong, which is usually after one of Microsoft's uninvited updates. I constantly run up against Catch 22 situations with Windows. I'm sure it depends on what you are accustomed to.

QuoteOriginally posted by rvandenbrink Quote
Ubuntu is pretty good, but if you’re not thrilled with the command line, learning new things and having a long-term science project for a laptop, you might want to consider windows or osx.
QuoteOriginally posted by gaweidert Quote
we went through the process and they were all excited until we came to the command prompt
I don't know why you have to involve the command line if you don't want to. I use it sometimes for its power and convenience, but it is a myth that it is essential for using Linux for routine things.

Last edited by Lord Lucan; 09-15-2022 at 04:57 AM.
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