[roentarre]

Most of the time, the postage fee is already hiked up to a degree. A common problem that could not be avoided as this is the only large scale internet sale service we can really get.

[shadowraven]

I remember a big purchase I made with paypal a few years back. The agreed price was $1500, I paid it and after fees it was less. I had agreed on a price, but paypal paid the recipient less. As it was a good deal to begin with I sent him the difference.

I've been using Ebay and Paypal for MANY years and at first did not charge the fees, then I did but made a note about charging extra for paypal, then after a similar concearn as the first poster made, I just added the fees into my asking price ($50 became $55) and called it even.

Fair, no. But neither is Paypal. If it's a good deal, fees or not, I'll pay it

What a crock... Let the seller tell me exactly what he wants for a lens. And I will buy it if it is what I want to pay. Besides the shipping charges are almost always bumped up anyway.

But to charge me more for the lens than someone with google checkout, or a bank account connected paypal, or some other way way of paying is simply a slap in my wallet. In all my lens buying addiction I have yet to buy a lens where I have been asked to pay the paypal fees. In fact I just scroll away when that is mentioned in the ad.
And what is the special protection afforded me for the extra dough? What I see is a seller getting instantaneous money deposited in their account. While I wait a week or two to see how much fungus is in the lens I just bought.

Retail stores do not add on charges for their merch if you pay with a credit card! (and they pay fees for it) It costs the same as cash. The stores pay the fees for the convience and protected transaction.

We are already paying ridiculous interest rates on credit cards... why should we pay even more when we buy a used lens?

Now I am all about the free market system, even if my country seems to have abandoned it. If the seller wants to add paypal fees, packaging fees, transportation to post office fees, and a "your lucky I am selling you this lens" surcharge... Go for it.
But I wish this marketplace was more like it was, instead of becoming 'freebay' for the sellers! You all are forgeting that this market place does not charge you a fee like the other one does... and yet you want to stick your forum brothers and sisters with a fee...

Wow this attitude will cost me some deals here I bet... haha
Nothing but love to my lens selling friends,
gus

[Gooshin]

so if Joe Smith offers you a lens for 60 dollars all included

and Smiling Jack offers you the same lens for 40 dollars, but also states that he will collect 4% more if you choose to use paypal, and also add the actual cost of shipping.

you're gonna go to Joe? when the seller is one state over and you know that for a lens this size shipping is a mere 5 or 7 dollars?

come now people! Seriously?

[magnum1]

so if Joe Smith offers you a lens for 60 dollars all included

and Smiling Jack offers you the same lens for 40 dollars, but also states that he will collect 4% more if you choose to use paypal, and also add the actual cost of shipping.

you're gonna go to Joe? when the seller is one state over and you know that for a lens this size shipping is a mere 5 or 7 dollars?

come now people! Seriously?

My answer is YES!

Just on principal alone, I will trust someone who sticks to the rules and policies first. When someone asks for such fees knows it is wrong, why should I trust such an exchange. Such offers will be an automatic pass on my part.

[Gooshin]

My answer is YES!

Just on principal alone, I will trust someone who sticks to the rules and policies first. When someone asks for such fees knows it is wrong, why should I trust such an exchange. Such offers will be an automatic pass on my part.

why are you so sure that people are aware of these policies?

and i still fail to see what is so "wrong" about it that you would scuff your nose at these people.


when you stuff at a convienience store, and the price ends up higher than whats advertised, do you get angry with the store clerk and storm out? It always says "X.XX + % tax", this must drive you up the wall!!

Well for me it is just wrong because the 'sellers' on this forum are not being charged any fee to list and sell on here... but recently some of them have decided that they have the right to charge a paypal fee to the forum members.
Do you not see that as a bold move? Do you really not see anything wrong with that?

That is my gripe... it did not use to be this way. As someone mentioned, it is a fairly recent phenom. And it may have very well been started by someone who only came on here to sell... There have been a lot of those folks recently also.

But now many long time sellers are doing the same thing.

[Eaglerapids]

When I go to buy a lens I look at the price asked and then decide. If I have to do more figuring to see how much the fees add to the price, I pass. If you want to sell to me, tell me how much you want up front or else I'm zooming on to the next listing.

[Gooshin]

Well for me it is just wrong because the 'sellers' on this forum are not being charged any fee to list and sell on here... but recently some of them have decided that they have the right to charge a paypal fee to the forum members.
Do you not see that as a bold move? Do you really not see anything wrong with that?

That is my gripe... it did not use to be this way. As someone mentioned, it is a fairly recent phenom. And it may have very well been started by someone who only came on here to sell... There have been a lot of those folks recently also.

But now many long time sellers are doing the same thing.

how is it a bold move?

i am selling an item for X amount of money, that is how much i want for it.

i am open to all sort of methods of payment, such as cash, money orders, direct deposits, wire transfers and paypal.

cash and money orders/cheques do not burden the seller, you send me the amount of money that i requested for my item

wire transfers, some banks wont charge the reciever anything (very few, usually offshore), TD bank for instance charges $10 for incoming wire transfers. If you opted to use a wire transfer and i held a TD account, i would state that you add an extra 10 dollars to your wire to account for this.

paypal charges the reciever a set amount (what is it, 3%? cant remember now) in which case i would request that you add 3% to the amount of money that you send.


if i am selling you my goods for a set price, that is how much i want, you can choose the cheapest method of payment most convenient for you, but if you choose a method which will result in me recieving less than what i asked, i would like to be re-inbursed for that loss

i see nothing wrong with that

now, if you charge more to the buyer than paypal charges you, that i will agree is not right, but i unless i misunderstood the OP that is not what we are discussing.

the other option is for the seller to just state an "inclusive" price, in which case you can guess as to what the "true" value of the item is, but you never really know until you get it and see the cost of shipping printed on the package, and then do a little backwards math.

this is very easy for the buyer, but as someone that works as a bookkeeper, i would like to know how to distribute that cost among all the proper factors, because you have your cost associated with a particular good, and you have the cost associated with delivery and payment.

when my company invoices clients, we provide them with an invoice that clearly outlines what they are charged for.

1. service
2. payment extras
3. shipping

we forgive our clients wire transfers because $10 per wire is a set price and we deal with relativly large amounts, but if a client opts to use a credit card we explicitly state that we will charge them an additional %, because point of sale terminals work like that.

Visa charges my company %2.75 for every visa sale, %2.75 from 5000 dollars is alot more than $10

i think thats perfectly fair considering the buyer has options in how he/she wishes to deal with us.

[geauxpez]

Well for me it is just wrong because the 'sellers' on this forum are not being charged any fee to list and sell on here... but recently some of them have decided that they have the right to charge a paypal fee to the forum members.
Do you not see that as a bold move? Do you really not see anything wrong with that?

As someone who has sold a few things on this site as well as another that does ask for (but does not require) a 1-3% donation on the items you sell, the following policies works well for me:

Set a price that you are comfortable with including fees that you may incur. I primarily use Paypal because it 1. It has protections for me as a seller, 2. It offers protection to the buyers as well and I want them to feel safe, and 3. Convenience -- I have less free time to play around at the bank than I do to go to the post office. It's really easy to transfer money electronically from my home computer at any time of the day.

I will often pass over items for sale just because someone is openly charging me for "their" Paypal fees however negligible the amount. It just doesn't sit right, but I don't complain...nor do I feel guilt for the seller if 2 weeks later they are dropping the price because they have spent money elsewhere that they have to cover.

I guesstimate postage as close as I can based on what the USPS site tells me. It is usually pretty close on domestic uninsured stuff. On international and insured it's a crap shoot. I guesstimate a charge and sometimes I slightly overcharge...other times I slightly undercharge...but I never intentionally overcharge on shipping.

Finally, I take a little perspective. Most classifides except Craigslist require payment. I don't mind paying back a few dollars to a site that I visit often and that provides me with so much information. It's just good business.

A final note: lighten up guys!

Adam -- Site Supporter

[Gooshin]

here is another real world example

when you get your salary, lets say 3000 a month

if one day you got 2995 instead, because the company subtracted 5$ to cover their banking fees associated with a direct deposit, you'd be pretty unnerved even though its a small amount?

you as an employee expect for the company giving you money to eat that cost, right?

same here

some people will give you a price inclusive, others will give you a price broken down into parts

why is the latter so evil? when the end result is the same?

[Sirfishalot]

Wow, I just stumbled upon this thread and it seems folks are not happy with sellers charging PP fees for items listed here. I personally had no clue that there was any policy by Paypal prohibiting this. On another well respected Buy & Sell forum it has been the norm for quite some time for folks to charge extra for Paypal fees.

I can understand both arguments for and against but isn't it really just semantics?
If sellers bump up the price to cover the Paypal fee they have to absorb will that make the buyers feel any better? Would you rather have someone tell you that you have to pay an additional cost for an item or have them tell you that they are charging you a higher price for that item to begin with?
I personally have found it customary for buyers and sellers to split the Paypal fee which also seems fair. I have price adjusted the lenses I'm currently selling to "remove the requirement for the buyer to pay the fee", but I've also raised my prices slightly to cover and will provide a discount for other forms of payment.

Go figure
JayT

[aamir515]

i am not a big fan of paypal with their exorbitanat fees..... why should a seller not charge extra if he is using paypal? why should a seller charge everybody extra even if the buyer wants to pay in cash? talking bout principles and rules, first make paypal follow some principles and then it will be fair to ask others........

[augustmoon]

Deal, or No Deal?

I also thought that on this forum, the seller can ask any amount of money for an item here in the marketplace and I thought it was against the forum rules to publicly debate the price. I've seen "mint" FA77's go for $400 up to $700 this last year. I've seen used lenses listed for more than new ones can be had from B&H for.....

I see a lot of ads in the marketplace here and on other forums, (fountain pen, medium format, rangefinder, etc.. etc.. etc...) and even commercial and retail sites where the seller offers various payment methods, and asks for PayPal fees if paying by PayPal. (Or sometimes splitting) This seems to be normal now. I've never been offended by this and on the contrary feel like the seller is being fair with respect to the payment method. I know PayPal isn't free, and I know the seller will have to recoup those costs somewhere.

So I guess you could lobby to have this practice stopped or banned here, it won't save you a penny, however, because then folks would just add in the fees into their price, and then if you wanted go go a route of money order or local purchase, then you'd wind up paying even more, at least this way its fair to everyone. And if a seller wanted to give a buyer a discount for using a method other than PayPal, then that would by definition be akin to asking for PayPal fee reimbursement.

PayPal isn't free, if a person wants to sell a lens and needs $xxx for that sale, then OK by me if they ask for $xxx via cash or money order or $xxz via PayPal.

If you are selling an item and asking for a money order, the person sending in the money order will have the expense of the money order and the postage and the delivery confirmation... etc..

OR -- in the spirit (or rules) of this forum, let whoever is selling to ask whatever they want to ask, then by PM in private, the two parties can work out whatever type of deal is amenable to both parties??????

[Eaglerapids]

Hmmmm, I guess, for me it's this.
The seller has all the power in the exchange. I've always paid very quickly whenever I've bought something. The seller now has my money to do with as he pleases and meanwhile I'm at his mercy as to when he ships the item and if the item is even what he claims it to be. When I bought my 31Ltd the guy said it would ship the next day, I paid him $770 immediately. He then waited two days to ship and I can only guess he wanted to be sure I wouldn't cancel the payment or something, I don't know why, exactly, he waited but I was getting a bit antsy about my $770, I can tell you. It was the most money I'd spent in this type of situation and it would have been disastrous to me financially if the deal had gone sour. It didn't and the lens was in perfect shape as he described it, but still.
Now, if a seller would ship me the lens and I could inspect it and see if it met the standards he claimed in his ad and THEN I sent him the money, sure, I'd pay the fees because I now have some power in the transaction. But why should I pay the fees when he has my money, now, and I have to wait to get my lens and see if he was indeed honest in his description and all that? In my opinion, this is why the seller should pay the fees. Which brings me back to my point. If the seller wants me to pay the fees, just add a bit extra into the cost but beware, if this extra puts the cost of the lens beyond what I'm willing to pay at the time, I will pass on the item. When a seller asks for the fees, I pass on the item.

While I'm at it and this is just me, I'm not lobbying for any policy changes or anything like that. I know in many parts of the world and even in cases here in the States (like buying a used car) bargaining is a part of everyday life. People add a bunch of money to their initial price because they know everybody is going to try to beat them down on the price and if they add $50 to a $100 sale, they might get the $100 they really want. To everybody but me, it seems, this is fun! This is why I drive an old beat up truck till it won't go any farther, I HATE bargaining! If I could go into a car lot and the prices were already to the point that they were fair to the seller AND to me and I could pay my money and walk out and jump into my new old beat up truck, I'd be a very happy camper! But no, it's like going into battle. I don't want a battle, I want a new old beat up truck. So, to avoid these hassles I'll drive my rig till it refuses to go another mile. I'm kinda naive, I suppose, in this regard and it may very well be I've passed on some stuff in the marketplace that I wanted but thought it was overpriced and all along the seller was actually wanting to bargain. Or maybe I've paid to much for some things because I didn't try to get the price down, who knows. But I have bought a few things when the seller dropped his price to something I was willing to pay. My point is that I presume when a seller states a price that is what he wants for the item and if he is willing to drop that price into my range, I will then react if I'm ready to buy.
Just my .02 worth.