[BigMackCam]

This has been quite an interesting discussion, but I don't think I can add anything more (much to everyone else's relief, I'm sure ). I'll keep watching with interest, though, to see if any conclusions are reached

After saying I had nothing more to contribute, I came across this last bit of your post which I hadn't answered (I think it was an edit of yours while I was writing my original reply):

How about your experience of conflict situations and how to resolve them? You may say "the best way to solve conflicts of interests is to avoid them in the first place" .

I can't claim any expertise in these matters, but here are a few personal thoughts and ideas:

Acknowledging the other party's point of view, as well as ensuring and demonstrating that you understand their reasoning is helpful, IMHO. I believe most people generally appreciate it if they can see you've taken the time and made the effort to see things from their side of the fence, and that even though you currently disagree, you're open to the possibility they may be right. Clarifying the context for both parties' points of view on a topic is important, as if contexts differ, there may in fact be no disagreement - the parties may be claiming subtley or even wildly different things, and might even agree on each others views once they understand their respective contexts. As part of that, perhaps clarify what you're not claiming as well as what you are - (e.g. "I'm not saying lens X is a bad lens; I'm saying it's not sharp wide open, and doesn't sharpen up across the frame until f/4 - and that's a problem for my applications"). Identifying and stating any elements or areas within the disagreement where you more-or-less agree can be a positive step... Establishing some common ground helps both parties realise that perhaps they're not so far apart in their understandings and beliefs, not quite as opposed as they thought they were, and it refines the conflict to something more focused and easier to deal with. Then, evidence... clear, specific evidence that matches the established context and backs up your claims unambiguously (bonus points if it's your own results produced specifically for the discussion at hand), along with directions for the other party on how to process that evidence so they can reach the same conclusion as you (i.e. don't expect them to do the work - make it easy for them; remove any obstacles). Throughout the discussion, try to remain open-minded, be ready to accept the other party may be partially or wholly correct, ready to say so and show appreciation if you learned something. A little humility and gratitude go a long way (that may be a cultural thing - but I don't think it's wasted on anyone)... BUT, if it turns out you were entirely right and they were entirely wrong, try to establish that without embarassing them or hurting their pride (it can be useful to reiterate the elements you already agreed on, to remind them you weren't that far apart to begin with - or even admit how the discussion was useful to you in clarifying and validating your own understanding, if that's the case). Either way, don't leave the disagreement hanging by disappearing from the discussion if you can help it... If you were proven wrong, accept and admit it graciously, but if not - and if you haven't convinced the other party even in light of clear evidence - agree to disagree and try to end the exchange on a positive (or at least amicable) note, perhaps identifying any progress you made as a result of the debate, and maybe even suggesting you pick it up together later or via PM. It shows you valued the discussion, even if there was no resolution. Oh, and when it becomes clear you're not going to reach a resolution for whatever reason, that's usually the time to draw things to a close. There's no value in continuing to hammer home your views, and every possibility that might just annoy folks

I don't have a blow-by-blow playbook for conflicts, and I don't always handle them in the same way. I didn't have the above points written down... frankly, I'd not even thought of them until you asked. I had to think through the things I believe I do sometimes naturally, automatically, subconsciously... but I don't think I necessarily go through all the same steps, or in the same order, in every situation - and there are probably other things I do that I haven't realised, depending on the situation. I play it by ear, so to speak, and it comes naturally - it's not planned or calculated in any way (though much of it has probably been learned over time, through trial and error). If you try to implement a fixed, inflexible, easily-recognisable step-by-step resolution process (as if it were a sequential customer service call-centre script ) for every conflict with an audience that's familiar with you, and it doesn't present naturally, I think folks might see through that and feel they're being "managed" somehow, or that you're being insincere and/or condescending... but if you feel any of the above might be useful in addition to (or instead of) your existing methods, or they give you some new ideas, you could try introducing them gradually when opportunities arise and see if they help.

OK, that really is it for me now! Good luck

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Last edited by BigMackCam; 06-10-2023 at 08:51 PM.

[csa]

"Metaz12
Lift Off

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Posts: 2
Joined: 09 Dec 2021

On your point about a little emotional agitation potentially being good for the forums, it may temporarily increase activity, but not - IMHO - the good kind. I can't speak for other members, but for me personally, I'd rather a lull in forum activity than folks ruffling feathers unnecessarily. I've no problem with spirited discussion when there's good reason for it and folks remain civil, but agitation for the sake of it? No thanks

I've been a Moderator on another forum since 2005. I can assure you (OP) that a "little emotional agitation" is not good for the forums, rather is a turn off for the majority of the membership; not to mention the additional work on the staff moderating it. Many of the members on my other site have said repeatedly, that if someone wants this type of action on the site; that there are many other sites that offer this.

This forum is a laid back, friendly place for us to engage in our love of photography. We gather many "friendships" thru these forums, that are indeed very gratifying. If this changed, and "emotional agitation" started creeping into the forums, it would no longer be our haven of enjoyment.

[biz-engineer]

I've been a Moderator on another forum since 2005. // This forum is a laid back, friendly place for us to engage in our love of photography.

Sounds like the atmosphere of your forum is really good, friendship being created around photography sound great. How did you manage to create such situation?

As a moderator, is you role limited to moderation only, or both moderation and participant?

Did you receive a training on how to moderate effectively?

[BigMackCam]

I've been a Moderator on another forum since 2005. I can assure you (OP) that a "little emotional agitation" is not good for the forums, rather is a turn off for the majority of the membership; not to mention the additional work on the staff moderating it. Many of the members on my other site have said repeatedly, that if someone wants this type of action on the site; that there are many other sites that offer this.

This forum is a laid back, friendly place for us to engage in our love of photography. We gather many "friendships" thru these forums, that are indeed very gratifying. If this changed, and "emotional agitation" started creeping into the forums, it would no longer be our haven of enjoyment.

Sounds like the atmosphere of your forum is really good, friendship being created around photography sound great. How did you manage to create such situation?

As a moderator, is you role limited to moderation only, or both moderation and participant?

Did you receive a training on how to moderate effectively?

The way I read Carol's post, I thought she was referring to PentaxForums being a laid back and friendly place (in which case I'd generally agree). I'll be interested to see if I mis-read that...

[StiffLegged]

The way I read Carol's post, I thought she was referring to PentaxForums being a laid back and friendly place (in which case I'd generally agree)...

Agreed: long may it continue that way. I also would not welcome a more "emotionally agitated" style.

[csa]

The way I read Carol's post, I thought she was referring to PentaxForums being a laid back and friendly place (in which case I'd generally agree). I'll be interested to see if I mis-read that...

No, I was definitely referring to Pentax Forums!

[csa]

Sounds like the atmosphere of your forum is really good, friendship being created around photography sound great. How did you manage to create such situation?

As a moderator, is you role limited to moderation only, or both moderation and participant?

Did you receive a training on how to moderate effectively?

I did not create this situation. I'm referring to Pentax Forums, that all of us help to create a friendly atmosphere.

I'm not a moderator here, but on another site, and yes; same as here; moderators are members also, and participate as such.

[biz-engineer]

I'm not a moderator here, but on another site, and yes; same as here; moderators are members also, and participate as such.

The reason I was asking if moderators also participate as forum members was because I research about the job of moderator online. I found some materials about moderation of panel talks, and in that case, the moderator's goal is to follow an planned agenda (depending on topic), stay on topic and allocate talk times, but the moderator doesn't act as one the experts invited for the panel talk / round table. The role of moderation in internet forums seems to dual, as moderators can moderate as well as participate and even push their own agenda using the status of authority (as moderator).

[StiffLegged]

…The role of moderation in internet forums seems to dual, as moderators can moderate as well as participate and even push their own agenda using the status of authority (as moderator).

C’mon, biz, you know perfectly well what the job of moderator on this forum is and how it’s done. Leave other forums to their own problems.

[BigMackCam]

The reason I was asking if moderators also participate as forum members was because I research about the job of moderator online. I found some materials about moderation of panel talks, and in that case, the moderator's goal is to follow an planned agenda (depending on topic), stay on topic and allocate talk times, but the moderator doesn't act as one the experts invited for the panel talk / round table. The role of moderation in internet forums seems to dual, as moderators can moderate as well as participate and even push their own agenda using the status of authority (as moderator).

Most internet forums are necessarily moderated by unpaid voluntary staff who are also part of the general membership, giving their time for the benefit of the broader community - and for little or no reward other than an occasional note of thanks or support, and ongoing privileges to enjoy the forums as regular members (if you can't pay them, you can't very well take those privileges away... no-one would volunteer ). A moderator's involvement in discussion threads (in their capacity as community member) and concomitant moderating action (in their capacity as staff) might appear to be a conflict of interest or abuse of power - and some may choose to assume such if they're on the receiving end of that moderating action - but in my experience, having been a forum moderator myself, it rarely is. I'm sure it can happen occasionally though (mods are fallible like everyone else), and if a member ever feels a moderator has acted inappropriately, most forums provide mechanisms for complaint and/or appeal - to be handled privately, away from the public gaze, as befits such a process.

Panel moderation is very different to internet forum moderation. Discussion panels are usually limited to a small few participants, and the professional moderator / facilitator - dedicated to that role, and remunerated for their time and effort - generally has more explicit / overt authority to direct and control the flow of discussion in line with a planned and circulated agenda. I've moderated a couple of panels over the years and participated in several others, and I think a panel moderator's job is somewhat easier than a forum moderator's. In the latter role, it can sometimes feel like you're herding cats whilst treading on egg-shells and wearing a high-vis vest with a big, bright-red target painted on it

If you want to get along smoothly in an internet forum community, adapting to its moderating practices is just as important as adapting to any of its other dynamics... IMHO, of course.

[biz-engineer]

Panel moderation is very different to internet forum moderation.

I 'm aware of that. It's just that when I searched about moderation, what came up was mostly about moderating panels.

Most internet forums are necessarily moderated by unpaid voluntary staff who are also part of the general membership, giving their time for the benefit of the broader community - and for little or no reward other than an occasional note of thanks or support, and ongoing privileges to enjoy the forums as regular members (if you can't pay them, you can't very well take those privileges away... no-one would volunteer ). A moderator's involvement in discussion threads (in their capacity as community member) and concomitant moderating action (in their capacity as staff) might appear to be a conflict of interest or abuse of power - and some may choose to assume such if they're on the receiving end of that moderating action - but in my experience, having been a forum moderator myself, it rarely is.

Side note: on the other forum, I've seen moderation posts specifically flagged as moderation posts, and while other regular posts from the same person are without authority, can't be used for the purpose of moderation.

[BigMackCam]

on the other forum, I've seen moderation posts specifically flagged as moderation posts, and while other regular posts from the same person are without authority, can't be used for the purpose of moderation.

Most forums provide members with some means of contacting the moderating team and/or site owner(s) to make suggestions or raise complaints (PentaxForums definitely does). As and when necessary, I'd say that's the appropriate method of dealing with such matters...

[csa]

as moderators can moderate as well as participate and even push their own agenda using the status of authority (as moderator).

A moderator that does that, on forums such as this one, would not last very long. If there's a conflict of interest of a moderator participating in a thread, then they leave the moderating to the rest of the team.

I don't know why you are so concerned about moderating. I can tell you, without moderating; this site, and many others would simply disolve into complete chaos.

As Big Mack said, the moderating/administration staffs are volunteer! No pay, whatsoever; simply that we wish to keep the sites as it should be, friendly, and welcoming to all members.