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06-09-2023, 12:14 AM - 1 Like   #1
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Forum threads as Q&A

The forum has been a great ground of observation, especially about three aspects of interpersonal communication:
1) the balance between affirmations and questions
2) the benefit of identifying problems as well as the orientation towards solution
3) punishment of problem finding doesn't lead to a solution

About affirmations and questions:
As I noticed for myself, affirmation is my default mode of posting (as well as in this post). And I also noticed the same one way affirmations from many forums members.
However, when I decided to ask more questions, discussions immediately ran more smoothly.

About problems:
People are naturally more sensitive to problems and negativity than they are to solution and positivity. This is known as negativity bias.
Problems often considered as bad. That said, problems are necessary part of a solution. Between the solution and the problem is the problem solving process, the problem is not the end , it is the starting point. Solution can't exist without spotting the problem first. Therefore, affirmation of problems don't need punishing for a solution, they need a process that lead to a solution.

About punishing:
Punishing is not a process of problem solving, it is the evidence that someone ran out of problem solving skills. Punishing used to be the default method for discipline in schools & education. Now , punishing has been recognized as ineffective, reinforcement of proper behavior has been found to be far superior.

About silence and asking questions:
Finally , about the power of silence and asking questions.
Saying nothing is the safest thing to do, there is no risk that comes with saying nothing. So, if you don't know anything useful to say, just say nothing.
Asking questions is the second safest thing to do, the quality of questions determine the quality of answers, and therefore the quality of problem solution.
When asking questions, worse case you learn nothing, best case you get some additional understanding for solving the problem.
Affirmation implies risks, create likes or dislikes as you will never know where other persons are coming from (experience wise), some people may like the affirmation, other people will dislike.

Before you decide punish, you have two good options to try before: 1) saying nothing and 2) asking questions.
If you do this, forum discussion will flow like water among the rocks, which is heavy work.
Consider forum threads as Q&A.

Now, what's your take about forums discussions?
What do you like? What do you dislike?


Last edited by biz-engineer; 06-09-2023 at 12:24 AM.
06-09-2023, 01:09 AM - 3 Likes   #2
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I think it's perfectly reasonable, if someone claims to have identified a particular problem in a camera or lens, to begin by trying to establish objectively whether or not that problem actually exists. Many of the "problems" that people claim to have identified turn out to be user error in one form or another. Either that or it turns out that somebody is repeating something they have read somewhere else on the internet without qualifying the source.

As you say, question and answer is a good way to work through that initial process.

Only if that original round of discussion concludes that, yes, the problem really does exist in that camera or lens does it become time to start considering solutions. If that first round of discussion concludes that the problem doesn't actually exist, this does not constitute "punishing" the person who raised the non-existent issue.

If the conclusion is that the problem does exist but is a very minor one that most people aren't concerned about, then the person who raised the question might feel punished because to them it IS important. But perhaps that person is merely suffering hurt feelings because others don't agree with them about the importance of the question.

If the conclusion is that the problem with the camera or lens really does exist, and is a significant one, then of course it's wrong to try to make the problem go away by ignoring it and punishing the person who identified the problem.

I think your main point about how you'd like forum debates to work really comes down to the difference between eristic and dialectic discussion.

In an eristic debate, the aim of both sides is merely to win the argument and the truth is irrelevant. You can spot an eristic debate by the presence of personal attacks, shouting down, "cancelling", rhetorical tricks such as straw man arguments, etc.

In a dialectic, the aim of both sides is to consider each other's arguments fairly with a goal of achieving a synthesis of the two original positions that gets closer the truth.

Sadly, in internet discussions eristic argument tends to be the norm and dialectic rarely happens.
06-09-2023, 03:57 AM - 4 Likes   #3
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Forum discussions are peppered with fact, theory, fiction, opinion, subjectivity, bias, hearsay, different levels of knowledge, skill, practical experience; misunderstandings, misinformation, tropes, emotions, motives and more - and when evidence relating to problems or criticisms is presented (which isn't always the case), the source, quality and interpretation of it varies considerably. Given all that, some discussions just aren't going to result in a single solution or conclusion, or one where everyone reaches consensus. That's the nature of discussion forums - they're like enthusiasts' clubs that meet up socially for a beer and a chat; they're not scientific bodies performing quality-controlled, peer-reviewed investigations and experiments where everyone involved is qualified to contribute, methods are clearly defined, and data is analysed objectively to guarantee an unambiguous conclusion.

When you consider the above and the variety of personalities here, it's amazing most of us manage to get along pretty well most of the time. IMHO, this comes down to the majority being mindful of the dynamics of a brand-specific enthusiast community, and contributing (or trying to contribute) in a manner that's constructive and positive towards that, by considering their audience at least as much as themselves.

Any member raising criticisms, problems or frustrations with equipment that the large majority of members here get along fine with - and bought with their hard-earned money, so may have some attachment to - should reasonably expect some counter-argument and/or disagreement, often (but not always) based on experience. Some of it may be valid, some may not. Rebuttal of a criticism or the claimed existence of a problem doesn't imply blind brand loyalty or head-in-the-sand denial (which I believe is in the tiny minority here, if it even exists at all); nor is it intended as punishment. It's just simple disagreement - a difference of understanding, opinion or personal experience. Parties on both or all sides of a discussion should be prepared to consider they may be wrong or may have misunderstood something, or else that their "personal truth" is contextual and is specific to their own requirements and expectations - and not necessarily everyone else's. That's essential if we're to learn (personally, I've learned I was wrong or misunderstood something on numerous occasions). Evidence to support or refute a claim is always helpful, especially when it's produced by the member(s) in question rather than harvested from other sources. It's usually the best way to demonstrate a problem or solution, or offer rebuttal.

Over time, I think we can all benefit from re-reading the forum rules and considering whether we're following them to the letter. A few choice excerpts that I think relate to this discussion are:

QuoteQuote:
Whilst some of our members shoot with other brands of equipment, the majority are dedicated Pentax enthusiasts. All are here to enjoy friendly and constructive discussion related to Pentax.
QuoteQuote:
Be nice. Correspond with others as you would your friends, except nicer.
QuoteQuote:
we politely ask that you show the same consideration and courtesy as you'd expect in return.
QuoteQuote:
Take some time to establish yourself as you would in any community before expressing opinions or statements which might be contentious or controversial.
QuoteQuote:
Always try to present your views in a friendly, courteous, constructive, balanced and reasonable manner.
QuoteQuote:
Meaningless posts, one word replies, posting only a link, posting the same thing multiple times, spamming and trolling, illegal activity (or discussion of the same), and brand wars / brand bashing are not allowed.
QuoteQuote:
please help us to keep PentaxForums a friendly and enjoyable community for all concerned
That last excerpt is really the catch-all, and something by which we can all judge our posts. Is what I post contributing to and maintaining an enjoyable community? Is it serving the community, or is it merely self-serving? Am I looking for a solution or simply an opportunity to complain or vent? Is there a way I can present my criticisms, problems and frustrations, rebuttals etc. in a way that's constructive, avoids friction so far as possible, and doesn't affect the enjoyment of others given the community dynamics?

In my own forum engagement, I sometimes (perhaps often) fall below the standards I feel we should all aim for in being good, constructive, helpful community members - but I do try. I think most folks here try, and for the most part they're doing a grand job...

Last edited by BigMackCam; 06-09-2023 at 06:00 AM.
06-09-2023, 04:48 AM - 2 Likes   #4
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The Forums have been a great place of learning for me and I believe many others. I started in 2012 and digital concepts were still forming. It was a shiny new world with very vigorous discussions. Of course don't mention the "equivalence" word!.
There has been not a lot of significant technical gains made in the last few years and I feel our threads have stagnated somewhat.
This is not a Pentax thing - the Niknon families moving to mirror less is more a fashion trend rather than technological gain.
And it is not a bad thing - I personally see no imperative to improve on a camera whose capabilities dwarf my abilities!. (K-1).
Technology is currently still demanding that the downside of smaller pixels is largely offsetting any gains in increasing in pixel count and there hasn't really been any conceptual leap forwards since the introduction of sensor shift stabilisation, pixel shift and astral stabilisation. And personally I am not asking for any.
But this means things like issues with gear, faults and breakages gets a little too high a profile as well as the inevitable ongoing whine of wanting something new.
As an amateur photographer who was developing colour neg in my own darkroom in 1990 I can say it is a wonderful place we are at now - lets celebrate it and concentrate on being positive.

06-09-2023, 05:35 AM - 5 Likes   #5
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I think the biggest issue on the Forum is the fact that for many here, English is a second or third language. This can lead to them using language that can seem more antagonistic or forceful, than maybe they intend. Also, we are like a family here and that means that we have heard each other's takes multiple times and that can lead to frustration.

Being willing to have some grace towards others goes a long way to having a pleasant Forum for others, even when we have disagreements.
06-09-2023, 06:11 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Over time, I think we can all benefit from re-reading the forum rules and considering whether we're following them to the letter. A few choice excerpts that I think relate to this discussion are:
All the rules quotes are about putting something forward, no matter how politely, respectfully, nicely, still a monologue.
06-09-2023, 06:13 AM - 1 Like   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
All the rules quotes are about putting something forward, no matter how politely, respectfully, nicely, still a monologue.
I'm not sure I understand your point, biz? (apologies if I'm being thick )...

What I tried to show in those excerpts is that folks are here to enjoy constructive discussion. Enjoyment is a key aspect, and if someone's posts - whether they be repeated criticism that others believe is unfounded or has been proven incorrect / inaccurate / largely irrelevant, trolling (i.e. posting valueless comments that are likely to incite reaction), venting / repeated complaint or brand negativity / brand-bashing, etc. - bring a negative mood to proceedings, that affects other members' enjoyment. Identifying a problem (ideally with evidence), debating it, looking for a solution and perhaps - after discussion - reaching conclusions (or not, as the case may be) can be interesting stuff. I don't think there's anything wrong with raising a criticism or claiming there's a problem if that has some constructive value to the community... and if the potential for rebuttal is accepted. If it's just venting or whining, or obsessing over the tiniest thing, that has no value and just annoys folks... In effect, it's a lack of consideration for the broader membership.

I'm not pointing my finger at you with these comments, biz - absolutely not. I'm speaking in general terms about all members, myself very much included... and, as I say, I'm quite aware that I don't always reach or maintain the standards of discussion and debate that I hope we all aspire to, in terms of friendliness, courtesy and tolerance (though as I also said, I do try). Frustration with others sometimes gets the better of me, and I invariably regret it (as has been the case with some of the discussions you and I have had over the years)


Last edited by BigMackCam; 06-09-2023 at 08:51 AM.
06-09-2023, 07:12 AM - 4 Likes   #8
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I have to say (and I have said it before) I have learned more about photography and using my cameras more in this forum than anywhere else and the overwhelming majority of that knowledge would apply to photography generally, not just Pentax cameras. In any forum covering any topics, there is going to be some off the wall topics as well as some very off the wall replies to any post. I have become very used to just dismissing some posts. It's something I expect. Lots of people are naturally going to have different opinions. I'm old school and treat people with respect in forums in the same way I would in a face to face discussion. Since I spend more time in biker bars than on the internet, respect becomes a way of life.

In a Q&A thread, if I don't really know enough to be helpful, I skip it. To be honest, so many topics concerning digital photography are so technical, very few of us understand any of it. In the end, the best answer is to go out and shoot and learn what works and what doesn't. There is a learning curve to everything and far too many people are looking for short cuts to avoid it. Even perfectly correct answers to a question won't work sometimes if the person doesn't really understand how to apply it. Then the problems start. Anyhow, that's my morning monologue. LOL
06-09-2023, 08:58 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I'm not sure I understand your point, biz? (apologies if I'm being thick )...
I read your post about the enjoyment by forum members. Your comment has a wider scope than my OP which is only about communication as a dialog, as opposed to one way communication where everyone put something in with ever showing interest or curiosity or effort of understanding via asking questions. About your comment, I agree with your point about how a forum is supposed to be, for the appreciation, enjoyment of forum users, or at least this is how it should be in theory.


Now, and this could be discussed with forum experts, which I'm not. I am not sure if a bit of emotional agitation is that bad for forums. I've seen forums threads develop very much because of agitated discussions about controversial topics, between people having different view points on the matter (such as format equivalence and other things). I would rather attribute slow down of forum traffic due to absence of news, or slower pace of new product releases. Usually, when there is no news for a long time, forum discussions tend to slow down as well. On the other hand, when a new camera is released, with something controversial to talk about, makes forum members participate more into sticky and passionate discussions. I remember when the K1 was released, I think there were 300 members active in the news section. Now, in absence of news, the counter indicates ~30 members looking into the news section. Too quiet isn't good either./
06-09-2023, 11:53 AM - 1 Like   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Now, and this could be discussed with forum experts, which I'm not. I am not sure if a bit of emotional agitation is that bad for forums. I've seen forums threads develop very much because of agitated discussions about controversial topics, between people having different view points on the matter (such as format equivalence and other things). I would rather attribute slow down of forum traffic due to absence of news, or slower pace of new product releases. Usually, when there is no news for a long time, forum discussions tend to slow down as well. On the other hand, when a new camera is released, with something controversial to talk about, makes forum members participate more into sticky and passionate discussions. I remember when the K1 was released, I think there were 300 members active in the news section. Now, in absence of news, the counter indicates ~30 members looking into the news section. Too quiet isn't good either./

So your position is simply that more emotionally volatile discussions will result in more forum views?

In which case, logically, you don't think that the real point of a discussion is to get closer to the truth. Instead it's just about an entertaining argument that will increase forum traffic?

So that, when you talk in your original post about whether or not to punish people for starting threads about problems with cameras or lenses, it doesn't matter whether or not those problems actually exist? If the result is an entertaining argument then it's irrelevant whether or not the claimed problem with the camera or lens truly exists?

Perhaps this gives us a good starting place to work from. Is the goal of a forum discussion to find out something true? Or is the goal simply to have an entertaining discussion?

Last edited by Dartmoor Dave; 06-09-2023 at 12:06 PM.
06-09-2023, 02:04 PM - 2 Likes   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Your comment has a wider scope than my OP which is only about communication as a dialog, as opposed to one way communication where everyone put something in with ever showing interest or curiosity or effort of understanding via asking questions.
Sorry for the scope-creep

To your original post:

I don't think there's an issue with affirmation when it pertains to indisputable facts... something like, for example, the exposure triangle. When it's used to present subjective opinions and assessments as fact, then it can be problematic... For instance, someone makes a statement that lens X is a piece of junk and Pentax has messed up. That's highly subjective, not to mention a little arrogant, and stating such opinions as if they were fact is quite obviously going to elicit push-back, not least from those who own the lens and like it. It's easy enough to avoid that by using language that isn't inflammatory and being clear that it's a personal opinion based on one's own preferences, requirements and expectations, accompanied by a willingness to accept that other folks may validly feel different.

As for using questions rather than affirmation, I think they're great if they represent a sincere desire to learn or harvest others' opinions, if they're asked and discussed with an element of humility, and they're followed up with a little gratitude for any information provided or lessons therein, even if the OP respectfully chooses to disagree. If they're simply used to create opportunities to push personal opinions or agendas, or the person asking isn't truly open to challenging their own opinions or understanding (i.e. they simply want folks to agree with them and discount anyone who doesn't), then they're just as risky as affirmation, IMHO.

In any forum discussion, be it Q&A, sharing of experience, opinions, whatever, I think one of the most important things is to be mindful of the community dynamic and your audience, and couch your questions or statements in ways that are most likely to encourage constructive response and discussion rather than create friction and division. It's not hard to do - most folks do it every day at work, or at weekends with family and friends - so I'm sure they can apply the same basic relationship management and communication skills here if they've a mind to.

On your point about a little emotional agitation potentially being good for the forums, it may temporarily increase activity, but not - IMHO - the good kind. I can't speak for other members, but for me personally, I'd rather a lull in forum activity than folks ruffling feathers unnecessarily. I've no problem with spirited discussion when there's good reason for it and folks remain civil, but agitation for the sake of it? No thanks

Last edited by BigMackCam; 06-10-2023 at 12:53 AM.
06-09-2023, 02:40 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dartmoor Dave Quote
So your position is simply that more emotionally volatile discussions will result in more forum views?In which case, logically, you don't think that the real point of a discussion is to get closer to the truth.
QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I don't think there's an issue with affirmation when it pertains to indisputable facts...
QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I think one of the most important things is to be mindful of the community dynamic and your audience
I am not sure how to answer those questions, an approach, telling facts while being mindful of what's accepted by the audience, probably the British approach.
I am French (from the other side of the channel), worked in the UK, USA, worked with French, Italians, German and most recently lived and worked in Austria for more than a decade. The difference can be huge. In the UK, you don't get fired , you are being made "redundant", although it's the same thing. I often felt Italians can be very dramatic. At some point I had an Italian manager and the first time he reacted I literally panicked, but after 10 minutes of drama everything came back to normal as if nothing happened, whereas the same reaction from a French manager would mean huge problem ahead. In Austria, it is the total opposite of Italians, every word and manner is sanitized before it comes out, even if the person hates you deeply (unless they lose control), a bit like in Japan, because it's part of education from childhood, you should behave in a certain way no matter what happens. When dating a French lady she will tell you or show you right away if she has no interest in you, which saves a lot of time as you can try your luck with another person. An Austria lady will keep dating even if she has no interest at all just because of her education, she was told from a young age to behave a certain way with men, so things will go on forever but nothing will happen. The Austrian way is enjoyable at first but then interpreted as fake, lacking clarity, and difficult to trust because you never know how much truth is in what you receive. I am back to France and completely amazed how spontaneous and transparent expressions are, not harsh but emotions just flow as they are, there is no hiding of what one think or feels. In Germany, as perceived by French, it can be either very polite, rigorous and/or totally blunt. In the UK, it's all about style, softening the blow. "I hit you on the head because I have to, but very gentle". In the USA, I am not sure how to interpret, you take the lift at your hotel and a guy that you never met before tells you boldly "hello my friend, how are you doing, have a nice day", thinking you already made a friend you see the same person in the street the next day and he doesn't know you, leaving a big question mark in your European mind "huhh??".

Last edited by biz-engineer; 06-09-2023 at 02:59 PM.
06-09-2023, 03:33 PM - 1 Like   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer:
I am not sure how to answer those questions, an approach, telling facts while being mindful of what's accepted by the audience, probably the British approach.
I am French (from the other side of the channel), worked in the UK, USA, worked with French, Italians, German and most recently lived and worked in Austria for more than a decade. The difference can be huge.
Having worked in those countries and with different nationalities, biz, did you adapt over time and learn how best to present, interact, negotiate with colleagues so that your dealings with them were mostly productive and harmonious?

Last edited by BigMackCam; 06-09-2023 at 03:42 PM.
06-09-2023, 10:50 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Having worked in those countries and with different nationalities, biz, did you adapt over time and learn how best to present, interact, negotiate with colleagues so that your dealings with them were mostly productive and harmonious?
That's a very good question. I did learn and adapt which cause me more problems later. When I moved to Austria, I was lucky to have an Austrian boss who taught me the Austrian right way, he would start his sentences with "We Austrians...", so I was happy to learn the superior Austrian way of doing things. My boss was so convinced that the Austrian way is superior that I just bought into it, I believed in it. But then the Austrian business was purchased (M&A) by a French company and we had huge problems, a number of our Austrian team members resigned because the French were trying to force the French right way upon us. Finally, after a lot of failures, I've found that listening (no talking) was the safest position, asking questions (being curious etc) was the second safest position, and negotiate was the route to optimal (beneficial) outcome. Does this make sense to you. How about your experience of conflict situations and how to resolve them? You may say "the best way to solve conflicts of interests is to avoid them in the first place" .

Last edited by biz-engineer; 06-09-2023 at 10:55 PM.
06-09-2023, 11:52 PM - 3 Likes   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
I am not sure how to answer those questions, an approach, telling facts while being mindful of what's accepted by the audience, probably the British approach.
A really important aspect, I think, is being able to differentiate between facts - real, indisputable, unambiguous facts - and personal opinions or beliefs that we've convinced ourselves are facts, when really they're not or may not be. They're very different things. Stating real, unambiguous facts - assuming they serve a constructive purpose in discussion - is low in risk, and likely to be accepted by the audience even if they don't like them. Stating personal opinions, beliefs or ambiguities as if they were facts - especially if they're in any way contentious - is always going to be risky; it pretty much guarantees disagreement from some quarter, and when friction occurs in these forums, that's often the cause IMHO. Real, indisputable, unambiguous facts are constant for everyone; people's opinions and beliefs vary - and that's where the high potential for disagreement comes in. I'm not sure that's an exclusively British thing

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
I did learn and adapt which cause me more problems later. When I moved to Austria, I was lucky to have an Austrian boss who taught me the Austrian right way, he would start his sentences with "We Austrians...", so I was happy to learn the superior Austrian way of doing things. My boss was so convinced that the Austrian way is superior that I just bought into it, I believed in it. But then the Austrian business was purchased (M&A) by a French company and we had huge problems, a number of our Austrian team members resigned because the French were trying to force the French right way upon us. Finally, after a lot of failures, I've found that listening (no talking) was the safest position, asking questions (being curious etc) was the second safest position, and negotiate was the route to optimal (beneficial) outcome.
What you learned about listening, asking questions and negotiation is very valuable, no doubt about it. These are useful, positive, well-recognised techniques in managing relationships of all kinds; for getting on in life, basically. Going back to your time in Austria, though, I find it interesting that you effectively "converted" to the Austrian way - you became fully invested in it, rather than adapting your approach to suit a specific occasion, and adding that approach to your personal "tool kit" to deploy when appropriate. I can see how it must have been very frustrating when the French company became involved after you'd converted to the Austrian way. Still, you succeeded in the end, and that's to be applauded.

For what they're worth, here are my own experiences and opinions...

Like you, I've worked in several countries. I've managed, worked for, and worked with individuals, teams, departments and entire divisions of different nationalities and cultures, some of whom were located in their respective countries and others who'd transferred to the UK. I learned what approaches worked best with certain individuals and nationalities, but for the most part I was dealing with people from multiple backgrounds at the same time. The cultures were intermingled, and different groups developed their own dynamics beyond any one specific national culture. I had to adapt my communication and management methods to suit different group dynamics, and there was no "one size fits all" cookie-cutter approach. I learned from reactions to things I said and did, from individual and team performance and productivity, and from feedback (once in a while, even the occasional complaint).

I guess the point I'm making is, I think the dynamics of a multi-cultural group are more than the sum of its cultural parts. I don't think anyone can expect to understand and flourish within a group - nor explain or excuse why they don't - by looking at it purely from the point of view of nationalities and cultures. Cultural differences play a part, for sure, but the group as a whole evolves its own unique dynamics over a period of time. New members to the group might experience a few difficulties in the very short term until they understand how things work, but if they participate for any reasonable length of time, they learn to adapt. They learn what works within the group, what makes its members happy or unhappy, what results in harmony and disharmony, what triggers reward and reproach. They learn how to get along. It's not essential for them to fully believe and invest in the group's dynamics - they just have to learn how to operate effectively within it. That shouldn't take long if they have their eyes and ears open, they're receptive to feedback and open to change. On the other hand, trying to significantly influence or alter the group's behaviours to suit their own is likely to be a struggle - and if it's a large, well-established group with long-entrenched behaviours, probably a fruitless one (unless you control that group - but even then, it's not straightforward). It's much easier for the individual to observe, learn from, and adapt to the group and its quirks... "Change comes from within"

-----

A puppy dog joins its new human family... it doesn't understand them or their ways, but they feed it, give it somewhere warm and cozy to sleep, take it with them for walks, and show it affection. When it poops on the living room carpet for the first time, they seem unhappy and put it out into the garden. When it poops on the carpet a second time, they're even unhappier and put it in the garden again. It doesn't take long for the puppy dog to learn that whenever it poops on the carpet - a seemingly natural, reasonable and acceptable thing to do so far as the young dog is concerned - its human family don't react well... so it learns to ask to be let into the garden and poops there instead. The dog is still a dog amongst humans; it still doesn't really understand their ways, nor has it completely forsaken its own... but it has adapted, and everyone's life has become that bit easier.

We humans do much the same thing... we have to learn what works and doesn't work within any groups we're part of - society in general, friends, neighbourhood communities, business, home life, social groups etc. - and adapt accordingly... or else we're in for a pretty rough ride

Apologies for the long, wordy response, biz. I don't know whether you can take anything of value from it, but I hope so.

This has been quite an interesting discussion, but I don't think I can add anything more (much to everyone else's relief, I'm sure ). I'll keep watching with interest, though, to see if any conclusions are reached

Last edited by BigMackCam; 06-11-2023 at 02:28 AM.
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For Sale - Sold: (AUS) SMC Pentax-M 50mm/1.4 & A35-105mm/3.5 & MV1 body & DB1 Grip (AUS) ddhytz Sold Items 4 04-22-2010 03:28 AM
For Sale - Sold: [US] K7 Body & grip, K20 Body & grip, DA* 16-50 2.8, DA* 50-135 2.8, & more andyschwartz Sold Items 4 03-09-2010 10:23 PM
Stock M42 Mount Threads vs. Adapter Threads zx-m Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 3 08-27-2008 08:02 AM



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