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01-17-2009, 05:49 PM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by lithos Quote
Tipping f*cking sh!ts me. (snip)
QuoteOriginally posted by Alfisti Quote
That doesn't make it right or less annoying. I'm with the skippy above.

Oh, we can pretty much all agree the concept of tipping sucks. Even the waitesses and waiters would probably agree with that. Restaurant owners who benefit by not having to pay waitesses and waiters decent wages might be the sole exception. In my dream world, I can easily visualize a magical place where all have good jobs with good wages paid. But that's not the way it is in America where waitesses and waiters are paid little or no wages, with much or all of their income derived from tips. Blame the restaurant owners riding around in the luxury automobiles for that, not the waitesses and waiters. They just work there, not set working conditions or policies.

stewart

01-17-2009, 07:45 PM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
If you think a string of insults, swear words and bad logic make some sort of convincing argument, then you might well applaud. Unfortunately nothing Lithos said is based on fact or any knowledge of the service industry.

Really it's simple, folks. Tipping is a social convention when dining out in N. America. It's the only thing that pays a server's way. Of course it would be better if people were paid for what they are worth. But that is not the current reality.

Don't like it? Don't eat out.

If you do eat somewhere where tipping is the norm and you do not tip then you are breaking social convention. You should expect to be treated likewise.

Any other expectation is immature and simply stupid.

That's the bottom line. I could add "**** this" and "**** that" periodically if you think it makes my post any better.

[EDIT: Oh dear, the post has be auto-censored. Be assured I did not withhold the correct epithets.]
You realise that the point of his diatribe was the fact that the tipping culture is spreading itself into Australia, and probably other Western nations, when we already have decent minimum wage laws here for service staff, not the underpaid crap that occurs inside the USA? Thus tipping a bar tender or a waiter is complete crap, since you don't tip the guy who works at a non-food service industry, even though they work under the same wage laws.

And yes, good looking people get better tips for their looks, not their service. Exposing the fraudulent bullshit that the tipping system is.

The whole world is not North America, and by the way, lighten up a bit, it's obviously just a funny rant.
01-18-2009, 08:49 AM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by Maxington Quote
The whole world is not North America
Not living in N. America I might perhaps have a small understanding that the whole world is not N. America.

QuoteOriginally posted by Maxington Quote
lighten up a bit, it's obviously just a funny rant.
Ah yes, it was hilarious.
01-18-2009, 09:28 AM   #79
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Minimum wage in Australia is $17 to $19 an hour??
I don't make that much money and I've got 32 years experience in my job and on top of that I'm fortunate enough to work for the best cabinet shop in my area...and the best paying.
Does anybody there know what a skilled cabinetmaker in Australia makes?

01-18-2009, 09:49 AM   #80
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You'd make enough to support a family.

The high wages for unskilled work sounds good on paper but in reality it drives the cost of things through the roof.

I have been in Canada a while now and the difference in prices for basic convenience items is just mind blowing. A can of coke at a gas station back home is $2.50, it's a dollar here. A coffee is what, $3.50 to $4 ... it's $1.30 (shitty coffee though).

A 42 inch Sony TV is $2k at home, $1100 here ... it goes on and on.
01-18-2009, 12:47 PM   #81
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Wow, I was wondering how you guys could even afford a camera seeing the prices you have to pay but this explains it.
01-18-2009, 10:25 PM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
Welcome back Lithos mate.
Have you been on vacation or something?
Spending a few months legally dead for tax purposes.

Wait. Don't tell anyone that.

Seriously, I'm living with a dour luddite who's hogging the phone line's ADSL capacity. And they're on a plan with Telstra.
01-18-2009, 11:37 PM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
If you think a string of insults, swear words and bad logic make some sort of convincing argument, then you might well applaud. Unfortunately nothing Lithos said is based on fact or any knowledge of the service industry.

Really it's simple, folks. Tipping is a social convention when dining out in N. America. It's the only thing that pays a server's way. Of course it would be better if people were paid for what they are worth. But that is not the current reality.

Don't like it? Don't eat out.

If you do eat somewhere where tipping is the norm and you do not tip then you are breaking social convention. You should expect to be treated likewise.

Any other expectation is immature and simply stupid.

That's the bottom line. I could add "**** this" and "**** that" periodically if you think it makes my post any better.

[EDIT: Oh dear, the post has be auto-censored. Be assured I did not withhold the correct epithets.]
I appreciate the epithets. We're weird like that, us Aussies. "Bastard" is a compliment down here, depending on context and delivery.

If you want to talk about social conventions, then, down here, it is the service staff who are breaking with tradition. We are, more or less, an egalitarian lot. True egalitarian, not just Champagne Socialist, say-one-thing-do-another sort of egalitarian - "I gave a hundred dollars to a charity for people like him, but why should I have to consort with him?"

Makes for extremely boring daytime soap operas, but there you go.

Which is why tipping bugs me. It's from societies - Imperial Blighty (ages ago, frowned upon now), the US - that aren't as egalitarian. It reinforces the notion that, despite them doing all the worst work, the "masses" rely on their social "betters".

Call me a proponent of Tall Poppy Syndrome. It's what you get when you stick a bunch of convicts in a land filled with animals that're more venomous than my wit.

Extra money's nice, yes. And some people do deserve it. But not automatically.

I want to preserve that underlying facet of our social conventions: we're all an equal bunch of bastards. More or less.

No bastard out there is better than me, and I'm not better than them.

And I have worked in the hospitality industry - dammit, I went to uni!

It's hot, you have to be on your feet for eight hours or so, work fast, often have a prick for a boss, learn to read lips...but that's all the more reason we owe them a wage, a guaranteed income.

I'm happy if I get my meal in a reasonable amount of time. That's all. I don't expect the waitstaff to smile, compliment me, or give me head.

I don't like the tips-are-necessary-for-living idea...because I care for the waitstaff.

QuoteOriginally posted by Maxington Quote
You realise that the point of his diatribe was the fact that the tipping culture is spreading itself into Australia, and probably other Western nations, when we already have decent minimum wage laws here for service staff, not the underpaid crap that occurs inside the USA? Thus tipping a bar tender or a waiter is complete crap, since you don't tip the guy who works at a non-food service industry, even though they work under the same wage laws.

And yes, good looking people get better tips for their looks, not their service. Exposing the fraudulent bullshit that the tipping system is.

The whole world is not North America, and by the way, lighten up a bit, it's obviously just a funny rant.
Aye. About 60/40 funny/serious.

If I'm gonna write something long, I'll make it interesting. I'm not writing a scientific paper.

As Arpe says, if tipping's so great, why not have doctors run off the tipping system? Lawyers? Presidents?

CEOs? Might've avoided the financial crisis, I'll give you that.

QuoteOriginally posted by Eaglerapids Quote
Does anybody there know what a skilled cabinetmaker in Australia makes?
Cabinets.

Sorry. I couldn't resist.

I'll see if I can find out. Our neighbour did our kitchen, so I'll see if I can ask.

And remember, those figures were in Aussie dollars, and Aussie dollars are great for buying stuff in Australia, not so good anywhere else. And stuff is more expensive than the US.

01-19-2009, 07:49 AM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by lithos Quote
Cabinets.

Sorry. I couldn't resist.
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