Originally posted by rparmar If you think a string of insults, swear words and bad logic make some sort of convincing argument, then you might well applaud. Unfortunately nothing Lithos said is based on fact or any knowledge of the service industry.
Really it's simple, folks. Tipping is a social convention when dining out in N. America. It's the only thing that pays a server's way. Of course it would be better if people were paid for what they are worth. But that is not the current reality.
Don't like it? Don't eat out.
If you do eat somewhere where tipping is the norm and you do not tip then you are breaking social convention. You should expect to be treated likewise.
Any other expectation is immature and simply stupid.
That's the bottom line. I could add "**** this" and "**** that" periodically if you think it makes my post any better.
[EDIT: Oh dear, the post has be auto-censored. Be assured I did not withhold the correct epithets.]
I appreciate the epithets. We're weird like that, us Aussies.
"Bastard" is a compliment down here, depending on context and delivery.
If you want to talk about social conventions, then, down here, it is the service staff who are breaking with tradition. We are, more or less, an egalitarian lot. True egalitarian, not just Champagne Socialist, say-one-thing-do-another sort of egalitarian - "I gave a hundred dollars to a charity for people like him, but why should I have to consort with him?"
Makes for extremely boring daytime soap operas, but there you go.
Which is why tipping bugs me. It's from societies - Imperial Blighty (ages ago, frowned upon now), the US - that aren't as egalitarian. It reinforces the notion that, despite them doing all the worst work, the "masses" rely on their social "betters".
Call me a proponent of Tall Poppy Syndrome. It's what you get when you stick a bunch of convicts in a land filled with animals that're more venomous than my wit.
Extra money's nice, yes. And some people do deserve it. But not automatically.
I want to preserve that underlying facet of our social conventions: we're all an equal bunch of bastards. More or less.
No bastard out there is better than me, and I'm not better than them.
And I have worked in the hospitality industry - dammit, I went to uni!
It's hot, you have to be on your feet for eight hours or so, work fast, often have a prick for a boss, learn to read lips...but that's all the more reason we owe them a wage, a guaranteed income.
I'm happy if I get my meal in a reasonable amount of time. That's all. I don't expect the waitstaff to smile, compliment me, or give me head.
I don't like the tips-are-necessary-for-living idea...
because I care for the waitstaff.
Originally posted by Maxington You realise that the point of his diatribe was the fact that the tipping culture is spreading itself into Australia, and probably other Western nations, when we already have decent minimum wage laws here for service staff, not the underpaid crap that occurs inside the USA? Thus tipping a bar tender or a waiter is complete crap, since you don't tip the guy who works at a non-food service industry, even though they work under the same wage laws.
And yes, good looking people get better tips for their looks, not their service. Exposing the fraudulent bullshit that the tipping system is.
The whole world is not North America, and by the way, lighten up a bit, it's obviously just a funny rant.
Aye. About 60/40 funny/serious.
If I'm gonna write something long, I'll make it interesting. I'm not writing a scientific paper.
As Arpe says, if tipping's so great, why not have doctors run off the tipping system? Lawyers? Presidents?
CEOs? Might've avoided the financial crisis, I'll give you that.
Originally posted by Eaglerapids Does anybody there know what a skilled cabinetmaker in Australia makes?
Cabinets.
Sorry. I couldn't resist.
I'll see if I can find out. Our neighbour did our kitchen, so I'll see if I can ask.
And remember, those figures were in Aussie dollars, and Aussie dollars are great for buying stuff in Australia, not so good anywhere else. And stuff
is more expensive than the US.