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01-14-2009, 08:54 PM   #61
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Lucky for George Bush he doesn't have to earn from tips...

The point being - why single out waiting staff?

01-15-2009, 06:27 AM   #62
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f*ing basterd waiter...so get this, went to restaurant last night with about 10 other people, everyone paid seperatly, my bill came to $7.48 with tax...i put two $5 bills in the bill thing, and nothing...he comes back to the table a couple times for other people, but i hear nothing from him for the next 30min...i ended up asking for my change just out of principle...you assume you're getting a 30% tip?? note: we didn't all pay at once, i paid with one other person, who used a card, and got their card back, so he just didnt bring my change...
01-16-2009, 07:55 AM   #63
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Some of you make it seem like when you tip, it makes you feel superior to the wait staff. As though they are simply slaves or poor souls and you feel sorry for them or society has taught you to treat them as charity. By leaving a tip, you feel you hold perverse power over the wait staff. Waiters and waitresses are being paid to serve you and tipping is your way of clearing your conscience somehow. Reform in the industry is what is needed for an antiquated idea. And that is not the fault of consumers.
Try this next time. Put ten dollars on the table and tell the wait staff and cooks, "There is your tip but I will remove money from it each time I'm dissatisfied."
01-16-2009, 08:22 AM   #64
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I manage a restaurant (will remain nameless). Our servers are forbidden to ask if they would like change. It is rude and presumptuous (and I've waited tables, bartended, managed, washed the dishes........) I have to agree with Nowhere Matt. It is an antiquated system, mostly designed to let the company off the hook for paying at least a minimum wage.

01-16-2009, 12:45 PM   #65
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on the other hand, some waiters/ess end up making a ridiculous amount of money that they wont be able to anywhere else.
01-16-2009, 01:18 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by baltochef920 Quote
I've said this before, and I will say it again..

Good to exemplary service in restaurants and bars should be the norm, and patrons should not have to compensate any member of these establishments for doing their job properly..

All members of a restaurant should be paid a decent living wage..Period..

All members of society should be insisting that the laws are changed so that people working in those professions where tipping is expected can be paid a fair wage..

Tipping should be discouraged, as an everyday practice..

If patrons wish to tip in restaurants for an extraordinary dining experience, then those tips should be equally distributed, by law, to every single member of the restaurant's staff that was working on the day that the tip was collected..

The owner of the restaurant, and any salaried staff members, should not share in the tip money..

Servers and bartenders should be paid an hourly wage that is at least equal to the average hourly wage being earned in the kitchen..

Prep cooks, chefs, waiters, waitresses, bartenders, hostesses, hosts, maitre'd's, dining room managers, restaurant managers, and dishwashers all share responsibility for the quality of the dining experience..

No restaurant can put forth a good meal without the efforts and cooperation of all of the people listed in the above sentence..

The entire tipping situation for bartenders and servers only encourages a divide that most definitely exists between the front-of-the-house, and the back-of-the-house staffs..

The average line cook in the United States makes between $7.00 to $12.00 per hour..

Any line cook making $9.00 per hour for an 8-hour shift is going to resent it when they see a server tallying up several hundred dollars in tip money for even fewer hours work than they just put in..

Servers almost always arrive later for a shift, and leave earlier than the cooks/chefs do..

I will be the first to admit that serving is a hard job..

I will also be the first to admit that cooking in a hot kitchen, and washing dishes is an even harder job than serving..

I've worked at just about every job there is in a restaurant except for tending bar..

Pay everyone working in restaurants a fair hourly wage that is representative of their abilities; the same as in virtually all other walks of life..

Allow the best people in restaurants to excel, and to earn raises, according to their abilities..

Allow people eating in restaurants to know the true cost of the meal in advance..

The argument I constantly hear regarding all of those areas in life where tipping is common is, "But, they are providing a personal service to you, aren't they??"..

My reply to that is bull***t!!!..Is there anything more personal than going to a doctor to be cured of an ailment??..

Do we tip doctors??..Do we tip auto mechanics??..Do we tip the person in the department store??..

Why do we condone a system where we underpay, and consequently must tip, hairdressers, barbers, waiters, waitresses, bartenders, etc.??..

Should not every person contributing to society be paid a fair wage depending on training, experience, talent, etc.??..

Tipping, if done at all, should be reserved for those very special occasions in life where everything was just perfect..

Tipping as an everyday occurrence is not a good thing..

It just encourages a sense of entitlement that is far too prevalent in today's society..

Bruce
This also echoes some of my thoughts.

And to the people who suggest that waiters and waitresses are giving less than minimum wage and depend on tips I again suggest that more of the burden be placed on the management and less on the consumer.
My wife is a Director at a corporation with wages based on an anual salary of six figures but divide that between the hours she works, she makes less than minimum wage. You can send her some gratuity via PayPal if you would like.
What about the people at McDonald's and Chuckie Cheese. They probably make minimum wage, serve you food and drinks. Do you tip them?
It just does not make much sense to me unless someone has really put forth an effort and makes you feel welcome with outstanding service and food. That's all I'm sayin'
01-16-2009, 01:23 PM   #67
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So some friends we have not contacted for a while and should keep in touch with want to meet up on saturday nigth at a Vodka Bar/Lounge. God freakin help me, let me guess, a bunch of pretentious ******s pretending to be bigger than they are whilst some muppet serves Vodka and expects a shiny nikel for doing me the honour.

WHAT is wrong with our generation (late 20's/early 30's) and their refusal to grow up and never set foot in places like these again once you're hooked up? They could all just come over our palce, I have Vodka or most other spirits you care to name but nooooooo .. that's not cool enough, you're not "seen".

01-16-2009, 01:32 PM   #68
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vodka should not be drank without food, period.
01-16-2009, 07:54 PM   #69
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Tipping f*cking sh!ts me.

There, I said it.

Bit of history: no, I've never been to the States. It sh!ts me here, like it annoys Arpe over yonder Tasman.

Truth is, most young kids here who do the waiting are raised on a strict diet of American TV and movies think that tipping is the norm. People give waitpersons tips.

Oh no, lith, you're being racist and blaming Americans for the woes of the world!

No. I'll bet my last buck that 90% of all..."knowledge" retained in the minds of anyone under 35 comes from popular culture. The US just cranks out more than anyone else, and that's mostly all we get down here (but if it means people stop watching McLeod's Daughters, fine by me. Here's a hint, denizens of Drover's Run: you'd lose less money on the farm IF YOU STOPPED BLOODY WEARING $100 RM WILLIAMS SHIRTS IN THE PADDOCK.)

Anyway, you get this tip thing happening.

'Cept were all a bunch of pinko socialists down here - first country to introduce Minimum Wage laws! - and we have said Minimum Wage laws in place.

It's about $17-$19/hour down here, in the hospitality sector.

But, lo, tip jars keep popping up. Yes, I'll give a tip if I'm feeling generous, or it was exceptionally good service, or good food.

But I don't f*cking well owe you anything! Are you going to take me to court over my non-tipping?

Oh, I see how you get around it. You'll just take the tip from my change, without my permission. Quaint little legal term for that:

Theft.

And if I was going to tip you anyway, and you do that, you're not getting a tip. Ever.

Or, next time, you'll spit in my food or stick a pube or two in it...

Then I sue you from here until the next millennium, and you have to work out a resumé that neatly sidesteps you being the person "who got that restaurant shut down". Once you get outta jail.

But, lith, you're obviously a tightarse!

No. No, I'm not. If I were a tightarse, I wouldn't eat out. I wouldn't pay $3 for a coffee that cost 15c to make. Wouldn't pay $6.50 for a kebab. Or, as I did this morning, pay $9.90 for two poached eggs on wholemeal toast, five dollars for some fresh-squeezed OJ (admittedly, that was pushing it), and $3.50 for a doppio.

And if another dessicated coconut like Johnny H tries to take the laws away, again, I'll be with on the barricades.

You goddamned commie! People should be paid in accordance to how well they do their job! Tipping is the purest form of that! It encourages people to work hard and do a good job!

Oh, piss off.

Seriously. That meritocratic, libertarian male bovie-faeces can kiss my ring. And I don't wear jewellery.

Every single person who wheels out that argument, I've seen, is invariably some who claims to have had to work harding for is some smug bastard who of course, never did do anything of the sort (Dubya!), because the easing of work-related laws (bringing the work conditions similar to the Industrial Revolution in Britain, or the robber-baron eras of the the US).

Or they're stuck in some shite, dead-end job, where they'll most likely die before they reach sixty, and all they've got is pride. They sure as hell don't have a decent house or the ability to afford a balanced diet.

Or they're commission-based salespeople, and, frankly, what I want to do to commission-based salespeople would land me in The Hague.

You want to know how tipping works?

I lived with a girl who worked in a certain pub in Brisbane, and she explained how it worked:

"I get good tips, because I've got big tits."

QV, that. I'm guessing they were well past the 44DD stage. Actually, I think they were off the musical scale, if you catch my drift. Didn't exactly get my tape measure out. And she was slim, too. It got to the point of men buying a pot with a twenty and letting her keep the change.

I guarantee, it won't go to the person who works the hardest. It will go to the most attractive. Attractive people tend to be stupider, my theory goes, as they don't need to be smart or work hard. People will fall over themselves to help. They don't need to know if they're hot or not - they'll just get used to the treatment..

Sit in a bar, and watch it. If an utter babe delivers the drinks, people won't give a soaring shag as to how long it took. And they'll tip - specially men, who tapdance through a minefield if they think there's the slightest chance of a root.

They'll have some poor ugly bastard as the glassie (busboy), though. His tips will be what he can fish out of the urinal.

But, of course, you can reverse-engineer this by measuring people's performance by counting how many tips they make, and say "Tips are only ever awarded to people who do good work, and, ergo, the person with the most tips is the most hard-working."

So you keep the one with the biggest tip intake, fire the ones with the smallest, and, voila! Your workforce gets less efficient.
01-16-2009, 08:52 PM   #70
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Welcome back Lithos mate.
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01-16-2009, 11:19 PM   #71
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I think Lithos summed up the problem with tipping rather nicely.

*applause*
01-17-2009, 05:44 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by Maxington Quote
I think Lithos summed up the problem with tipping rather nicely.

*applause*
If you think a string of insults, swear words and bad logic make some sort of convincing argument, then you might well applaud. Unfortunately nothing Lithos said is based on fact or any knowledge of the service industry.

Really it's simple, folks. Tipping is a social convention when dining out in N. America. It's the only thing that pays a server's way. Of course it would be better if people were paid for what they are worth. But that is not the current reality.

Don't like it? Don't eat out.

If you do eat somewhere where tipping is the norm and you do not tip then you are breaking social convention. You should expect to be treated likewise.

Any other expectation is immature and simply stupid.

That's the bottom line. I could add "**** this" and "**** that" periodically if you think it makes my post any better.

[EDIT: Oh dear, the post has be auto-censored. Be assured I did not withhold the correct epithets.]
01-17-2009, 11:52 AM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
Tipping is a social convention when dining out in N. America. It's the only thing that pays a server's way. Of course it would be better if people were paid for what they are worth. But that is not the current reality.
That probably sums it up. And it probably holds true for the entire Western culture, not just the U.S.

Does anybody know how all this started?

I mean, in the beginning, tipping must have been the exception and poeple must have paid the bill excatly, period.

Or otherwise stating, tipping a sales clerk in a retail store isn't the norm, right? Why did it become the norm in restaurants then?
01-17-2009, 12:25 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
Really it's simple, folks. Tipping is a social convention when dining out in N. America. It's the only thing that pays a server's way.
That doesn't make it right or less annoying.

I'm with the skippy above.
01-17-2009, 03:56 PM   #75
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As an ex-chef myself I agree completely with most of what Bruce (Baltochef) said. Having said that I would like to add that I expect different service depending on the establisment. If I'm at a high end white table cloth place I DO NOT expect to see the food "auctioned off" ie "Who gets the Softshell crab?" Front-of-the-house in such a place should make sure their wait staff are properly trained. At the local diner, I expect much less professional service. A waiter/waitress in a high end establishment should know the food, the basics of it's preparation and the major ingredients. I wouldn't expect that of my local 'eatery'.

NaCl(now I'm hungry!)H2O

Last edited by NaClH2O; 01-17-2009 at 04:19 PM. Reason: changed "everything Baltochef said" to "most"
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