[X Man]

See, that is the problem. I am not quite convinced that we do remain friends with all of the arguments flying back & forth. I truly feel that every comment about how "X is responsible for ___...

...takes a little bit of our civility away and replaces it with a bitter sense of divided partisanship.

X here, honestly I don't know how my name {X} got dragged into this but I resent it!

ROTFL, Sorry, but we're all wound a little tight and have been for at least the last 8 yrs. Hopefully some of the promised change will include, well, more inclusiveness and we can move forward.

But, BS and Politics go hand in hand obviously, and that won't change regardless of where the subject is broached.

Regards,
X

[Mallee Boy]

X here, honestly I don't know how my name {X} got dragged into this but I resent it!

ROTFL, Sorry, but we're all wound a little tight and have been for at least the last 8 yrs. Hopefully some of the promised change will include, well, more inclusiveness and we can move forward.

But, BS and Politics go hand in hand obviously, and that won't change regardless of where the subject is broached.

Regards,
X

.....but hang about ...aren't you the "X" factor ??

and guys...its not just unique to the US...come live over here during an election campaign......gggeeeeezzzzz us!!

I would probably align myself more with the Republican approach to life, but I sincerely, honestly, genuinely wish Obama all the very very best... for everyone's sake.

And i have but one question for the Bush detractors....which one of you would have liked to have been in his shoes on Sept 12 ???

Cheers people.

[Jasvox]

"General Talk This is a relaxed forum for intelligent conversation and discussion of topics unrelated to photography."

[benjikan]

"General Talk This is a relaxed forum for intelligent conversation and discussion of topics unrelated to photography."

Thanks for the reminder.

[JCSullivan]

I know that bitching about politics is an American national pastime, more popular than baseball, football, and apple pie, ...

This is NOT an American phenomenon by far.

In Malta where I spent many years working it is constant - they have 97 plus percent in voter turnout.
In Italy they have TV shows just to do that.
Here in Canada the Prime Minister (no matter the stripe) has it easy when compared to others.

[séamuis]

"General Talk This is a relaxed forum for intelligent conversation and discussion of topics unrelated to photography."

Thank you.

[RoxnDox]

"General Talk This is a relaxed forum for intelligent conversation and discussion of topics unrelated to photography."

And the idea is to keep the "relaxed" and "intelligent" parts to a maximum...

Jim

[RoxnDox]

X here, honestly I don't know how my name {X} got dragged into this but I resent it!

ROTFL, Sorry, but we're all wound a little tight and have been for at least the last 8 yrs. Hopefully some of the promised change will include, well, more inclusiveness and we can move forward.

But, BS and Politics go hand in hand obviously, and that won't change regardless of where the subject is broached.

Regards,
X

Sorry 'bout that, X. We can make "Y" the placeholder then!

Jim

[RoxnDox]

This is NOT an American phenomenon by far.

In Malta where I spent many years working it is constant - they have 97 plus percent in voter turnout.
In Italy they have TV shows just to do that.
Here in Canada the Prime Minister (no matter the stripe) has it easy when compared to others.

Oh, believe me, I know it's not limited to the USA. That seems to be the hottest topic hereabouts, though...

Jim

[Wheatfield]

Here in Canada the Prime Minister (no matter the stripe) has it easy when compared to others.

That's because we don't elect leaders, we elect carefully selected dictators by electing representatives who don't represent our interests (unless they happen to coincide with the interests of the sitting dictator).

[rormeister]

Thanks for the reminder.

Coming from the one who lit the fuse....

[heatherslightbox]

I didn't vote for Obama, nor do I think he's the second coming of the messiah. With that being said, I'm taking an attitude of cautious optimism when approaching the Obama presidency. Although I don't agree with him on a lot of things, I want to at least give him a chance to prove himself. I'm trying to keep an open mind.

I still think the behavior of some folks towards Bush at the inauguration was shameful though. Even if you can't stand the guy, at least show him enough respect and let him go in peace.

I wish both Obama and Bush well.

Heather

[Blue]

I didn't vote for Obama, nor do I think he's the second coming of the messiah. With that being said, I'm taking an attitude of cautious optimism when approaching the Obama presidency. Although I don't agree with him on a lot of things, I want to at least give him a chance to prove himself. I'm trying to keep an open mind.

I still think the behavior of some folks towards Bush at the inauguration was shameful though. Even if you can't stand the guy, at least show him enough respect and let him go in peace.

I wish both Obama and Bush well.

Heather

Very good points Heather. Obama is going to be on a learning curve for 6-8 months. Lets see how it goes. I think these stimulus packages are wasting Trillions and will have the wrong effect.

[navcom]

I hold no grudges here either. I will probably get some groans for getting upset about "the letter". But politics is politics. Sometimes you need to vent and sometimes it ends up on this forum. No biggy.

I agree with graphicgr8. I had similar debates about politics during the election and I really appreciated the civilized opposing views out there. Damn Brit, jssherman999, séamuis, etc. all have different views than mine but I think they are great! Some really good "one-liners" came from those debates!

What ties us all together IS the photography.

[stewart_photo]

Compared to the American tendency to avoid discussions about politics and religion, I find the European tendency to openly discuss these things quite refreshing. In my own case here in Germany, that tendency is even greater since two of our immediate neighbors are college professors, one is a high school English teacher, two are college students (one studying international law and the other physics), and two are international businessmen. In other words, I'm surrounded by knowledgeable people willing to discuss what they know (the teachers & students) or what they've experienced (the businessmen). Luckily, we've also traveled extensively and both have similar education levels, with my wife also a licensed secondary school teacher with degrees in history and math.

In this environment, no topic (history, religion in history & modern times, science, social issues, world affairs, the disproportional influence of some on Europe & the Americas, African & Middle-Eastern migration into Europe and the Americas, the possible implications of an African-American president in what was once a predominantly Western country & culture, etc) are entirely off the table. That includes topics many Americans will often not touch with a ten-foot-pole for fear of being accused of racism, anti-semitism, spreading hate speech, or whatever.

But that tendency to openly discuss politics and religion goes far beyond Germany into most other European countries as well. While vacationing in Spain, Italy, or Greece, it's not at all uncommon to hear similar discussions at roadside cafes or bars. English pubs are well noted for their discussions about politics and more, as are many Scandinavian pubs. And I suspect some Americans would be quite shocked by some of the things written in internet forums here. Heated discussion are relatively rare (not unheard of, but rare), with outright arguments even less so. Most just exchange a few messages to make or defend their points and then move on to other topics before the discussion escalates into something more than just that.

stewart