[Ratmagiclady]

I mean, OK, I'll just add one more thing. I thought this was a board full of *photographers.*


Aren't you *looking?*

Rather against my will, I've been travelling around this great nation of ours without much respite or pause, and what I've seen in the meantime seems to be the same.... A lot of local 'jobs' being about people borrowing money to invest in building more retail space while *existing* retail space is shuttered, collapsing... cause of 'high real estate values,' but 'investment' would mean that people would build *additional space out in the middle of nowhere... Around here, a lot of it never opened. Even if they bypassed local government to put the stuff up in the first place. Even if there was really never much possibility of profit for anyone but the investors and contractors.

Heard some of the stories from the locals.

That's not 'Free enterprise.' That's: We've been looted.

[stevebrot]

The parallels are only obvious if you dismiss all the salient inconsistencies and focus on superficial analogies. Hitler's politics were reactionary, militarist, imperialist, racist, pro-corporations, secretive, repressive and illiberal. Obama's are pretty much the straight opposite, and if anything are significantly more distant from hitlerism than the previous administration's.

Basically, the only thing that you apparently find chillingly Hitler-like in Obama is that he is popular and charismatic, but of course the same could be said of Ben Gurion, Mandela and Gandhi.

Read my post. The parallels are not between the men, but between the situations, some of the promises that were being made, and the social climate of the time. Hitler promised the people pride and prosperity and they bought it.

Steve

(BTW...the Nazis while anti-liberal and anti-communist, were also anti-capitalist. Sort of like the kind of socialism that existed in Iraq under Saddam Hussein. I believe that the term at the time was "Third Way"...)

I didn't think anything could be much worse than the "W" thing until the "O" thing came along.

But what made the W thing worse was the D thing in Congress which is making the O thing that much worse. But we sill have the hope for 2010.

I will say that there are 7 Democrats that do have some brain. They voted against the spendulous bill. Congratulations to them

[stewart_photo]

Oh, please, let's all chill out. (snip)

Not a chance in Hades.

That said, anyone who thinks Obama-love even approximates the slobbering worhip that supporters bestowed on Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld in 2002-2003, should probably just read this. (snip)

You're right. The two don't approximate each other, with the fanaticism for Obama far exceeding that for Bush & gang. I've lived through roughly ten presidential elections and have never seen anything even remotely similar to the fanatism of Obama's supporters. One tongue-in-cheek article, like you linked to above, doesn't equal the massive volume of clearly not-so-tongue-in-cheek articles written by Obama supporters during this last election. There's no phrase like your "Obama-love" regarding Bush. The was nothing in the 2002-2003 election like the "Obama-Girl," with many millions of hits on YouTube and elsewhere, wiggling her buttocks for Bush. Bush supporters didn't literally chase strangers down public sidewalks and into stores screaming for them to support their candidate.

I could go on nearly indefinitely pointing to the massive differences, but there's no real need given nearly everyone in America already knows about the unique fanaticism of Obama's supporters.

stewart

-

---

Last edited by stewart_photo; 02-14-2009 at 02:07 AM. Reason: spelling mistake

[Mike Cash]

Let's face it. We will soon start using the yen...

I've been using yen for a quarter-century. It ain't so bad.

[slomojoe]

Bush supporters didn't literally chase strangers down public sidewalks and into stores screaming for them to support their candidate.

LOL, sure. Ask the Dixie Chicks how unobtrusive Bush supporters are.

[Ratmagiclady]

Yeah, Joe. I seem to remember everyone who didn't support whatever W did, even after being proved right, being called 'traitors' by certain people.

Even after Bush in fact was the one who ran up all this debt, transferred the most wealth in history to the very rich, and increased the size of government more than anyone else in history. By Roveian doublethink,he had to be supported lest 'Tax and spend liberals' do anything constructive.

[jsherman999]

...
Sure it is great to celebrate. The king is dead, long live the king. I am just getting sick of hearing about how he represents ultimate good in comparison to Bush being ultimate evil. He is just a human person and a politician at that. Pretty much the same as Bush. The worst I can say about Bush is that he was incompetent in the office that he held. It is not the first time that has happened and it won't be the last.

Steve

He was incompetent in the office he held - the office of President of the United States of America. If only he had just remained an incompetent Governor, an incompetent ML Baseball owner, or an incompetent oil oligarch...

Pretty chilling...though the obvious parallels had crossed my mind. Not in regards to the character of Barack Obama, but to the expectations and attitudes of the German people at the time. A charismatic leader + bruised national ego + severe economic problems = ?

Steve

Weak stretch, Steve - this comparison could literally be made to dozens of leaders since Hitler, none of whom were fascists. A country looking for and wanting to believe in a charismatic leader does not a fascist state make.

Not a chance in Hades.


...

I could go on nearly indefinitely pointing to the massive differences, but there's no real need given nearly everyone in America already knows about the unique fanaticism of Obama's supporters.

stewart

-

It doesn't come close to the Nader supporters of 2000 in one way - there is a reservoir of rationality behind the Obama support. The Naderites were uniquely able to separate ideology from pragmatism to such a degree that... Well, they reminded me of the religious right. Scary stuff.




.

[stevebrot]

Weak stretch, Steve - this comparison could literally be made to dozens of leaders since Hitler, none of whom were fascists. A country looking for and wanting to believe in a charismatic leader does not a fascist state make, and making the comparison comes across as maybe a bit lazy and uninformed, not to mention offensive to certain older folks who still wear numbers tattooed on their arms. And their families.

.

Sorry, no intent to offend anyone, least of all holocaust survivors.

I may be intellectually lazy and almost certainly am uniformed. I was born a full decade after the war was over. My first hand knowledge is limited to contact with those that fought, those that survived, and episodes of "Hogan's Heroes".

While my personal experience is limited and my education sparse (I opted for the sciences over history), I still have a mild interest in world conditions between the two world wars, particularly in regards to the rise of fascist states in Europe. One of the nagging questions in my mind is why the German and Austrian people would buy into the Nazi agenda. I can't believe that they were all evil, hateful, racist, reactionary, expansionist fiends. I can't even believe that a slim majority were. Yet the historic fact is that they enthusiastically supported a government that did terrible things. Beyond that, they and their children actually committed those terrible acts.

The only comment I was making is that in desperate times people will suspend reason and embrace the unthinkable if the promise is compelling enough. The same is also true if the peril is perceived to be extreme.

Steve

[slomojoe]

Post deleted for purpose of detente.

[JavaJoe]

I've been using yen for a quarter-century. It ain't so bad.

Right. Not bad in japan but it would suck here. But still better than the peso.

[slomojoe]

Right. Not bad in japan but it would suck here. But still better than the peso.

Well, the US have options. If Denmark joins the euro zone, as it now looks like it will, the euro will become the official currency of the major non-continental landmass in North America. Canada will then need to follow suit soon, and from there it's all downhill to Washington.

[arbutusq]

Well, the US have options. If Denmark joins the euro zone, as it now looks like it will, the euro will become the official currency of the major non-continental landmass in North America. Canada will then need to follow suit soon, and from there it's all downhill to Washington.

We Canadians will resist the Danes with every fibre of our beings. We will not go down to the Euro without a fight, but if we do will Ikea stuff be cheaper?

[jsherman999]

Sorry, no intent to offend anyone, least of all holocaust survivors.

I may be intellectually lazy and almost certainly am uniformed. I was born a full decade after the war was over. My first hand knowledge is limited to contact with those that fought, those that survived, and episodes of "Hogan's Heroes".

While my personal experience is limited and my education sparse (I opted for the sciences over history), I still have a mild interest in world conditions between the two world wars, particularly in regards to the rise of fascist states in Europe. One of the nagging questions in my mind is why the German and Austrian people would buy into the Nazi agenda. I can't believe that they were all evil, hateful, racist, reactionary, expansionist fiends. I can't even believe that a slim majority were. Yet the historic fact is that they enthusiastically supported a government that did terrible things. Beyond that, they and their children actually committed those terrible acts.

The only comment I was making is that in desperate times people will suspend reason and embrace the unthinkable if the promise is compelling enough. The same is also true if the peril is perceived to be extreme.

Steve

Fair enough (If you noticed I edited out the part about uninformed and lazy when I felt bad about it later, shouldn't judge the messenger just because I don't like the message)

Yeah, Joe. I seem to remember everyone who didn't support whatever W did, even after being proved right, being called 'traitors' by certain people.

Even after Bush in fact was the one who ran up all this debt, transferred the most wealth in history to the very rich, and increased the size of government more than anyone else in history. By Roveian doublethink,he had to be supported lest 'Tax and spend liberals' do anything constructive.

Actually he had the help of the Liberal Congress and Senate. Since it had to originate there. At least he did veto some spending. Now the libs have a blank check and they will use it. Wait. They already are. And again, I didn't know I was rich. But my taxes went down. The liberals don't want you to be well off either. And they sure don't want you educated. Then you'd realize that they keep you down so they have the power. Well them and their elite group.