[AndrewShirley]

<SNIP>

It's composition and perspective that I'm having problems with (I think); stuff that can't be explained with formulas. Oh, those dreadful formulas.....

Actually, most of the books I read try to explain good composition and perspective... they invariably have 30 or 40 rules to good composition. And invariably the last one is always "break the last 39 rules". Hope this helps lol!
- Andrew

[monochrome]

Despite this, she still consistently turns out better photos than I do!

Chris

Advice to OP -

Doesn't matter what the subject is, my wife consistently turns it out better than I do. That was the attraction from the first day. (After 30 years I never have figured out the reciprocal).

Forget the photographs. Marry the girl.

Everything else improves with time.

[TimB]

Advice to OP -

Doesn't matter what the subject is, my wife consistently turns it out better than I do. That was the attraction from the first day. (After 30 years I never have figured out the reciprocal).

Forget the photographs. Marry the girl.

Everything else improves with time.

"If you can't beat them, join them" approach, eh?

Definitely, a valid technique. Although, singing up for a photo course is the kind of level of commitment I expected to follow this discussion. But maybe you're right.

[TimB]

<SNIP>


Actually, most of the books I read try to explain good composition and perspective... they invariably have 30 or 40 rules to good composition. And invariably the last one is always "break the last 39 rules". Hope this helps lol!
- Andrew

Ha, that's why I don't read

[Votesh]

Like others have said, keep taking pictures. Also, if you haven't already, read some books or online tutorials and the like.

I find it helps to either take pictures of subjects that you normally wouldn't or in ways that you normally wouldn't. You might stumble on to something that works for you and you can go from there. Like, if you normally focus on nature photography, try some city shooting or portraits. The nice thing about photography is that the fundamentals work in most, if not all, situations.

Another resource I find helpful is looking through the explored pictures on flickr. Usually they just leave me thinking how much I suck at photography, but the more pictures that you like that you can see and study, the more you realize what goes into making a picture you like.

If all else fails, just don't let her use the K10D anymore. Either that or buy a K20D

My girlfriend wants a camera now and I'm worried about the pictures she'll produce. Hopefully she's not TOO much better than me.

[monochrome]

Everything else improves with time.

"If you can't beat them, join them" approach, eh?

Definitely, a valid technique. Although, singing up for a photo course is the kind of level of commitment I expected to follow this discussion. But maybe you're right.

And practice.

Including the photographs.

Especially if you take a course (forgot that part).









Where's the course on better married?

[AndrewShirley]

There's an old saying that I made up... "Never let the guitarist play your bass". (Oh and the "drummer is always late"). What I mean by that is exactly what Votesh just said... Don't let her use your camera

- Andrew

[Arpe]

2) Now - ask yourself - "why are these better?"

What he said. Then once you figure it out, dump her, you won't need her anymore!

Some people just "have the gift" of composition etc. My sister knows nothing about the technicalities but is a good photographer, and artist. She just knows what to do. Whereas I know the technicla stuff, but struggle to make "arty" shots.

[Ratmagiclady]

Frankly, it could be the spontaneity you're lacking, and it's appealing in your GF's stuff. I'm not sure what 'level' you're on with the technical stuff, TimB, but it's possible you 'know' a lot of stuff you haven't really absorbed, and you still haven't gotten out of your own way with it. Oftentimes I'll start feeling inhibited or uncreative, usually cause of some physical discomfort or being a bit down, and thinking too much about 'How am I going to catch up with the times, where's the darn WB set at now, am I in a good enough frame of mind to do anything worth doing, etc etc.'

Best antidote for that for me is to whip out the F-1 and start making that winder sound. Nothing does so well at getting one in a frame of mind to use what you got, and what you know. The sound really tells my mind, 'You're shooting, we're in that space.' If you're shutter-shy, you might overthink things.

If you're making a lot of exposures you're unsatisfied with, then it's kind of the same thing, you may find that if you're 'loosened up,' then you have more attention to focus on what you're doing, rather than having your headspace occupied with how things 'should' be, and perhaps shooting more out of frustration or trying to force things, rather than confidence.

With automation getting smarter, it's a lot more often that someone perhaps with a bit more of a 'natural eye' will 'show up' a technical photographer, cause they simply shoot, with full expectation the photo will 'come out,' (whether this will actually happen or not: it just happens more, with better automation. ) People have different approaches, though: some seem to have a natural eye and are bewildered by the simplest technical things, some can assimilate reams of data and technique and their real challenges are more on the artistic and social ends.... and that's mostly a matter of headspace, and 'finding a voice.'

I like to say, 'tools teach,' ...if you're not getting what you want to 'capture' out of a scene, listen to what your images are showing you. If it *is* something technical, it could be too basic to notice, like you're holding too firmly, too tense when you shoot, thus fouling the shot there,

(And, if it's about sharpness, as someone mentioned, I've been driving myself *nuts* trying to get sharp images out of this old 28, till I've figured out that with this wide of a lens, apparently the SR is quite counterproductive for me. ...compared to old-school film cameras, this K20 is just so stable and soft of release I must be getting 'tripod' effects, cause I get more hits without the SR, more like I'm accustomed to with film... better, even, with less mirror slap and no film transport, and a really good design. Could be you're being *too* steady for the tech, even. )


(Also, I see, now, Timb, that this tab was one from before you posted a couple more times. I should have refreshed.


As for perspective and such, what do *others* think of your photos? )

[Alfisti]

Try shootin gin P mode, just set Ev comp to where you feel the lens/camera combo works and forget changing any settings and then go shooting for a day.

[Eaglerapids]

I know exactly how you feel. In my case I hate my freakin' kid. He's a photographer for the Air Force.
After weeks of overtime I took off early from work Friday and some snowkiters I'd heard of were snow boarding out on the Rathdrum prairie. I found them and took a boatload of pics. To me I got a ton of keepers, everything was clicking, sharp photos and I was feeling pretty good about myself. Well, I hooked up with Nathan this afternoon and he trashed almost all of the ones I thought were good. And he was right but damn it hurt. I was looking at the technical aspect of how the ones I got were well exposed and sharp and he was looking at the perspective of the shots and wondered why I didn't walk up to the guys, talk to them and work with them to get close and REALLY tell a story instead of just standing back and getting basicly snapshots of the going's on. I tried, in vain, to come up with some excuse that sounded lame, even to me. He would have gone right up to the guys and set up some awesome photos, but I have a very hard time doing that, I didn't want to "bother" them.
Nathan didn't like the initial crop of this photo I came up with and out of all the photo's I showed him, he kinda was ok with this crop (not 1:1 but close) but complained that you can't see the guy's face.



We went to some snowkiter's web sites and I could see exactly what he meant. I've got some awesome equipment, now, and I bet you do too, but it's not enough. Now we have to learn to use it, to develop an "eye" to see things in a way that people who just take snapshots don't see. We have the equipment, now comes the hard part, to develop a style..... even if it means that we sometimes actually have to talk to people, to take charge of the situation. To build confidence in ourselves. I've shot some things in the past year where I didn't take charge of the situation mainly because I didn't have confidence in myself to get the shot, I was worried about the technical things... could I get the shot in focus, I was worried about exposure for crying out loud. And all this crippled what little bit of creativity I may or may not have.
We have to keep pushing to the next level.
Failure is not an option.

Guys, I would like to state that in fact I do NOT actually, really hate my kid as I don't believe TimB hates his girlfriend:-). I can count on Nathan to always give me his honest opinion, an opinion I can trust. It's one of his greatest virtures and very valuable to me. He's pushed my photography forward more than any other. Yes, there have been times I didn't agree with him, especially at first, but then when I reflect on what he's said I have to, many times, realize he's right. Today he was right. Damn it:-).
TimB, I've said all this because I can relate to what you're going through and I'm sharing with you some of my experiences to tell you that it's ok to take a crappy picture (if in fact you have, you haven't shown us any):-). That's not a crime, I have and I bet most all of us have. Heck, sometimes the pictures we don't think are all that good are the ones others really like. I'm just saying that what's a crime is to give up, not that I think you were serious about that either.
BTW, you're not an idiot.

[dave sz]

Well, actually, I don't.
However, every once in a while, when we're on a hike, or on a beach, or some such thing where I'm firing away with my trusty K10D and producing gigabytes of crap, she would grab my camera, click a couple of times and have THE keepers for the day. And then my train of thought goes something like this: "God damn it, how does this happen and why is she better than me at everything....."

The point I'm trying to make is that I am a horrible photographer. But I can't quite figure out why?
The pictures coming out of the camera always look different than what I have in my head. It just doesn't quite happen, doesn't quite connect.

Maybe I lack perspective, maybe I'm just an idiot.

Oh well, maybe I'll try yodeling for a hobby....

I guess she just has the eye for it. She sees things differently and that's why she gets the shots. I'm in the same boat as you my man...

[TimB]

I think I'll try the technique of not letting her shoot.
If I could only manage not letting her speak, then I would be all set.

Perhaps I think too much about the right exposure, settings, and such and that gets in the way of actual picture taking.
I'm not really worried about sharpness, shutter speed, etc.
The main focus is the subject and that's what I'll concentrate on. And will see how that goes.

Now, if only I had some free time and it wasn't raining non-stop. Hopefully soon!!!

[Ratmagiclady]

. To me I got a ton of keepers, everything was clicking, sharp photos and I was feeling pretty good about myself. Well, I hooked up with Nathan this afternoon and he trashed almost all of the ones I thought were good. And he was right but damn it hurt. I was looking at the technical aspect of how the ones I got were well exposed and sharp and he was looking at the perspective of the shots and wondered why I didn't walk up to the guys, talk to them and work with them to get close and REALLY tell a story instead of just standing back and getting basicly snapshots of the going's on. I tried, in vain, to come up with some excuse that sounded lame, even to me. He would have gone right up to the guys and set up some awesome photos, but I have a very hard time doing that, I didn't want to "bother" them.

Well, as I was referring to above, and I've taught some things about photography to a lot of people, ....there is the technical end, and there is the 'artistic' end, but there is also the *social* end. And it's this third thing that is usually-neglected, particularly on the Internet where it's not something you can actually talk about for hours.


Both tech-geeks and 'artists' tend to have an antisocial streak, I find. One that's, I think, often hard to overcome for many. (Also why flower and animal photos are so popular on the Net, I'm sure, apart from obvious not-so-okayness about posting random people shots for all the Net to see, but you saw this *before* the Net, too. when the *technical* knowing wasn't quite so easy to get, either.

Some say a long lens to pick unobserved with from a distance, or a wideish one you don't have to be clear where you're pointing is 'the' thing to do for street photography, ..ideally, I like to engage with the subjects and environment, and, really *interact* with what's going on. Being *comfortable with people, and being the one with a camera *among* people* is a key skill that is so often overlooked. It's so elementary and so rarely talked about. My biggest troubles these days are about the difficulty of putting people at ease when *I'm* in pain, but for a lot of photographers, it's really about the idea of social barriers, how to respectfully approach them, how to present the camera, how to, not try and *hide,* but be *part* of whatever's going on.

It's kind of easy to see a camera as something to insulate yourself from social interaction, ...this is in fact where certain images come from. When you put a camera to eye, metaphorically and socially, though, it's not a shield, ....maybe at times a mask. The people you meet don't know how well you select for highlight exposure, to them, you're an incidental character in whatever their day is. You can play a role, hopefully an expressive one, which makes you and your camera a *welcome* presence in their life, however fleetingly.

If *you're* comfortable with what you are doing, and who your meeting, so will others tend to be. People *want* to be. If you see how to let them. It's not a mechanical process, that, or even about 'artistic vision.' It's about meeting people.

Even with film, I've always said, 'Taking photographs is performance,.... You need to give the performance that lets your subjects behave more naturally than they would with a sneaking suspicion they are being watched.' If you need to blow a frame or two to make the noise that says they are getting skilled attention while you compute your guide numbers, you *do that.*

You're allowed. You're the photographer.

See, there's a lecture for you. But, important as it is, don't let all the technical talk make you think that your subjects have any blessed idea what you're doing, they only see the worry on your face. Some will talk about studio or formal portrait situations like that's all the more controlled and picky and scary-for-you.. Especially with children, this is a totally-unnatural environment *you* are supposed to be the one guiding them through, and if you act like 'It's very important you stand still just like this while I do this other stuff you don't need to worry about, ...you get wonderful lighting on faces trying hard not to be stressed-out faces. I consider it a seminal moment in my photographic education where I had to take over for a photog in some formal portrait situation, was faced with a young family with a young child of flagging patience, ...no idea where to find the diffuser or flashmeter or whatever darn thing.

Was a fairly random inspiration, but I did my best Columbo. Because a child was there, I was allowed to play the silly role, look bewildered at every piece of gear while I checked settings, rummaged through drawers, and basically ham it up. Get the subjects on my side, and of course hit the trigger where appropriate. It's been like standup sketch comedy every time I've been within five feet of a light stand ever since.

[rfortson]

Fortunately, my wife doesn't like taking pictures, but she'll consistently point out the shot I should be taking, and more often than not, she's right. It used to bug me, but now I love her for it. Some of the shots she's suggested have been published even.