Please file a complaint re: Child Abuse

Wheatfield · 03-01-2009, 12:00 PM

Well, Stewart, I don't really think smacking that girl's head into a wall, then into the floor, then giving her a couple of shots to the head is going to bring your brother back to life or cure any of the other ills that you mention.

OTOH, it was only a mild beating, she probably didn't even lose any teeth, and I'm certain that that shoe, kicked in such a girly fashion, caused that cop tremendous pain and suffering, certainly he was within his jurisdictional rights to beat her completely senseless and he showed tremendous restraint by only smacking her around a little bit. I mean really, his partner showed enough restraint to not even throw a punch.
What an angel he is.

benjikan · 03-01-2009, 12:15 PM

I would suggest that all civil servants and parents should read at least three Alice Miller books, "Banished Knowledge", "Breaking Down the Walls of Silence" and "For Your Own Good", all of which I read in preparation for the long road of child rearing I would embark on. I have two teenage daughters of 13 & 15 years old and I cannot state more adamantly how much those books saved my children from the recycling of childhood trauma that I and many children endure, whether it be physical or psychological abuse. She has written approximately ten books on the roots of violence in our society and how one might come to grips with their own childhood personal trauma's. The man who committed this act, was no doubt abused as a child.

Thanks
Ben

**DAZ** · 03-01-2009, 01:36 PM

I live in this area and I can tell you that the local press had little if any interest in this case until the prosecutor filed criminal charges. It was only after charges were filed that the press requested the video and it went world wide. I say this because this is not a case of the prosecutor bowing the public opinion and filing criminal charges even if there is no merit. This is the same police officer that killed a suspect and the prosecution would not budge on filing charges when there was a lot of pressure. They are filing charges now even thou they may take a small political hit.

Prosecutors usually don’t like to file criminal charges on police officers. This is not because they like them but it is hard to get convictions. You and I are not aloud (except it extreme cases) to use force but a police officer may be required to use force as part of the job. This means they have to show the force was out side the force needed for the job. When you add “benefit of the doubt” it has to be way outside for the prosecutor to think it has merit.

I don’t see the point in jumping up and down telling the local authorities to file charges on this police officer when next to no one seemed to care until the local authorities file the charges that everyone is screaming for. What else are they to do, call for a lynch mob?

DAZ

MRRiley · 03-01-2009, 04:02 PM

Daz,

I wonder why your local press was not more vocal earlier but its no wonder that it took a while to have charges filed in this case. It takes a while to gather support to charge a police officer with a crime. It takes a while to gather the political courage needed to charge a police officer with a crime. This is because the "brotherhood" resists charging one of their own. This is also why it is hard to convict police officers of wrong-doing. Given the average police officer and the average "perp" the officer is generally considered the more reliable and the more likely to be truthful. The "perp" is naturally presumed to be untrustworthy while the officer is a trusted member of society. This is what makes criminal officers so despicable in my opinion. They have abused the trust which the community has bestowed upon them. This abuse compounds their criminal offenses to levels which eclipse those of the average criminal.

And you are correct in your statement that police officers are often required to use force as part of their job. The reason this officer is being charged (I assume) is that the prosecutor believes that the force used "was outside of the force needed to do the job." And regardless of what verble abuse this girl might have heaped upon poor sensitive Officer Schene, the force he applied to her was excessive.

There is a longer version of the video available which shows the period before when she was taken to the holding cell and then the period after she was removed until the paramedics arrived. This video starts with the girl in the booking area and the time stamp is just a few seconds before the opening time stamp of the holding cell clip. The girl looks cooperative and even appears to smile as they take her to the holding cell. This segweys to the clip from the holding cell that we have all seen. If you pay careful attention there is a slightly over 7 minute time gap between when the girl is removed from the holding cell after the assault and the officer coming back in to do whatever he did (which is unclear). After the holding cell clip ends the scene reverts to the booking area and the time stamp corresponds to the time the girl was removed from the holding cell. The officer is holding her hair and places her at the end of the bench. Though it is not visible he likely handcuffed her to the bench at that point. It is unclear at what point the paramedics were called or who called them, but at one point a 3rd officer approaches the girl and speaks to her briefly. Shortly thereafter the paramedics arrive and examine/treat her then leave after which the video ends.

Finally, no we don't need a lynch mob. We just want to make sure this officer is treated as a vicious predator who is much more dangerous to our society than a 15 year old girl who MAY have commited misdemeanor auto theft (of her own parent's car). Auto theft does not a violent felon make...

Mike

Last edited by MRRiley; 03-01-2009 at 04:26 PM. Reason: typo

**DAZ** · 03-01-2009, 04:31 PM

I am in no way defending this officer nor am I giving excuses for the prosecution. I am saying that these things are much difficult then they look and take more time then we wish. None of these things are in my direct power to change or influents. I am saying that a rush to judgment and a lynch mentality is not in the best interest of justice. My not saying so has me working for the hangman and I don’t want to be "the one who serves him best".

DAZ

MRRiley · 03-01-2009, 04:52 PM

My apolgies Daz.. After rereading your post I see more clearly what you were saying. It will indeed take time to prosecute this issue fully but a vocal public is a powerful incentive to conduct it both expeditiously and in the full light of day.

**DAZ** · 03-01-2009, 05:10 PM

MRRiley no apology necessary as it is extremely easy in forums for misunderstandings. I am all for vocal (I like vocal even thou I am not very vocal). I am mostly a live and let live person and if I don’t agree with someone that’s OK I just mostly don’t say anything. I do sometimes feel uncomfortable not saying something even if I want to agree with the statements made.

DAZ

Mike Cash · 03-02-2009, 03:51 AM

I still don't understand just what it is either the U.S. government was supposed to do at the Federal level to prevent this or just what it is some outside international body is expected to do about it (other than perhaps to compile it into a list of statistics).

There are laws against all sorts of things....that doesn't mean that crimes don't occur anyway. The U.S. can sign conventions until the cows come home and that will do nothing to prevent any particular individual from engaging in any particular action. This is strictly a matter of state law and it is currently being adjudicated. The only thing the Feds might do is to go after the officer on a civil rights thing, such as was done to the officers acquitted in the infamous Rodney King case.

stewart_photo · 03-02-2009, 05:22 PM

Originally posted by séamuis

(snip) your statement is complete biased bullshit, I don't care (snip)

I didn't truly expect anything more than exactly that.

stewart

bonovox · 03-02-2009, 06:27 PM

Originally posted by stewart_photo

And, yes, I do have a "chip on my shoulder" when it comes to this subject. My brother was murdered (execution-style) by a young black man only one year older than the "child" in this video (his third violent offense, yet charged as a juvenile - free today) and my wife threaten by a young black man with a gun under his belt inside Wal-Mart. And this doesn't include many lessor incidents over the years, like the young lady, bloody and brused, crawling in our door late one evening to escape the gang of "children" chasing her.
stewart

I'm sorry to hear of your terrible loss, and the other hard circumstances you and your family have had to endure. (I really am - I'm not being facetious at all)

I'm also sorry these terrible experiences have caused you to have a "ends justifies the means" mentality, which allows you to think horrible violence against a 15 year old girl is OK, because it might help stamp out other violence/criminal activity. Surely you can see this is flawed thinking?

Blue · 03-02-2009, 06:32 PM

This reminds me of the Alaskan State Trooper that tazed his 10 year old step son. The officer needs dealt with but it is not an international matter. What is the Hague going to do? Invade Washington?

03-01-2009, 04:52 PM	#36
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275	My apolgies Daz.. After rereading your post I see more clearly what you were saying. It will indeed take time to prosecute this issue fully but a vocal public is a powerful incentive to conduct it both expeditiously and in the full light of day. Last edited by MRRiley; 03-01-2009 at 05:15 PM.

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03-01-2009, 12:00 PM	#31
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,986	Well, Stewart, I don't really think smacking that girl's head into a wall, then into the floor, then giving her a couple of shots to the head is going to bring your brother back to life or cure any of the other ills that you mention. OTOH, it was only a mild beating, she probably didn't even lose any teeth, and I'm certain that that shoe, kicked in such a girly fashion, caused that cop tremendous pain and suffering, certainly he was within his jurisdictional rights to beat her completely senseless and he showed tremendous restraint by only smacking her around a little bit. I mean really, his partner showed enough restraint to not even throw a punch. What an angel he is.

03-01-2009, 12:15 PM	#32
benjikan Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Paris, France Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,308 Original Poster	I would suggest that all civil servants and parents should read at least three Alice Miller books, "Banished Knowledge", "Breaking Down the Walls of Silence" and "For Your Own Good", all of which I read in preparation for the long road of child rearing I would embark on. I have two teenage daughters of 13 & 15 years old and I cannot state more adamantly how much those books saved my children from the recycling of childhood trauma that I and many children endure, whether it be physical or psychological abuse. She has written approximately ten books on the roots of violence in our society and how one might come to grips with their own childhood personal trauma's. The man who committed this act, was no doubt abused as a child. Thanks Ben

03-01-2009, 01:36 PM	#33
DAZ Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Everett, WA USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 744	I live in this area and I can tell you that the local press had little if any interest in this case until the prosecutor filed criminal charges. It was only after charges were filed that the press requested the video and it went world wide. I say this because this is not a case of the prosecutor bowing the public opinion and filing criminal charges even if there is no merit. This is the same police officer that killed a suspect and the prosecution would not budge on filing charges when there was a lot of pressure. They are filing charges now even thou they may take a small political hit. Prosecutors usually don’t like to file criminal charges on police officers. This is not because they like them but it is hard to get convictions. You and I are not aloud (except it extreme cases) to use force but a police officer may be required to use force as part of the job. This means they have to show the force was out side the force needed for the job. When you add “benefit of the doubt” it has to be way outside for the prosecutor to think it has merit. I don’t see the point in jumping up and down telling the local authorities to file charges on this police officer when next to no one seemed to care until the local authorities file the charges that everyone is screaming for. What else are they to do, call for a lynch mob? DAZ

03-01-2009, 04:02 PM	#34
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275	Daz, I wonder why your local press was not more vocal earlier but its no wonder that it took a while to have charges filed in this case. It takes a while to gather support to charge a police officer with a crime. It takes a while to gather the political courage needed to charge a police officer with a crime. This is because the "brotherhood" resists charging one of their own. This is also why it is hard to convict police officers of wrong-doing. Given the average police officer and the average "perp" the officer is generally considered the more reliable and the more likely to be truthful. The "perp" is naturally presumed to be untrustworthy while the officer is a trusted member of society. This is what makes criminal officers so despicable in my opinion. They have abused the trust which the community has bestowed upon them. This abuse compounds their criminal offenses to levels which eclipse those of the average criminal. And you are correct in your statement that police officers are often required to use force as part of their job. The reason this officer is being charged (I assume) is that the prosecutor believes that the force used "was outside of the force needed to do the job." And regardless of what verble abuse this girl might have heaped upon poor sensitive Officer Schene, the force he applied to her was excessive. There is a longer version of the video available which shows the period before when she was taken to the holding cell and then the period after she was removed until the paramedics arrived. This video starts with the girl in the booking area and the time stamp is just a few seconds before the opening time stamp of the holding cell clip. The girl looks cooperative and even appears to smile as they take her to the holding cell. This segweys to the clip from the holding cell that we have all seen. If you pay careful attention there is a slightly over 7 minute time gap between when the girl is removed from the holding cell after the assault and the officer coming back in to do whatever he did (which is unclear). After the holding cell clip ends the scene reverts to the booking area and the time stamp corresponds to the time the girl was removed from the holding cell. The officer is holding her hair and places her at the end of the bench. Though it is not visible he likely handcuffed her to the bench at that point. It is unclear at what point the paramedics were called or who called them, but at one point a 3rd officer approaches the girl and speaks to her briefly. Shortly thereafter the paramedics arrive and examine/treat her then leave after which the video ends. Finally, no we don't need a lynch mob. We just want to make sure this officer is treated as a vicious predator who is much more dangerous to our society than a 15 year old girl who MAY have commited misdemeanor auto theft (of her own parent's car). Auto theft does not a violent felon make... Mike Last edited by MRRiley; 03-01-2009 at 04:26 PM. Reason: typo

03-01-2009, 04:31 PM	#35
DAZ Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Everett, WA USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 744	I am in no way defending this officer nor am I giving excuses for the prosecution. I am saying that these things are much difficult then they look and take more time then we wish. None of these things are in my direct power to change or influents. I am saying that a rush to judgment and a lynch mentality is not in the best interest of justice. My not saying so has me working for the hangman and I don’t want to be "the one who serves him best". DAZ

03-01-2009, 05:10 PM	#37
DAZ Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Everett, WA USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 744	MRRiley no apology necessary as it is extremely easy in forums for misunderstandings. I am all for vocal (I like vocal even thou I am not very vocal). I am mostly a live and let live person and if I don’t agree with someone that’s OK I just mostly don’t say anything. I do sometimes feel uncomfortable not saying something even if I want to agree with the statements made. DAZ

03-02-2009, 03:51 AM	#38
Mike Cash Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Japan Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,950	I still don't understand just what it is either the U.S. government was supposed to do at the Federal level to prevent this or just what it is some outside international body is expected to do about it (other than perhaps to compile it into a list of statistics). There are laws against all sorts of things....that doesn't mean that crimes don't occur anyway. The U.S. can sign conventions until the cows come home and that will do nothing to prevent any particular individual from engaging in any particular action. This is strictly a matter of state law and it is currently being adjudicated. The only thing the Feds might do is to go after the officer on a civil rights thing, such as was done to the officers acquitted in the infamous Rodney King case.

03-02-2009, 05:22 PM	#39
stewart_photo Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 1,864	Originally posted by séamuis (snip) your statement is complete biased bullshit, I don't care (snip) I didn't truly expect anything more than exactly that. stewart

03-02-2009, 06:27 PM	#40
bonovox Inactive Account Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Ireland's wild west Posts: 555	Originally posted by stewart_photo And, yes, I do have a "chip on my shoulder" when it comes to this subject. My brother was murdered (execution-style) by a young black man only one year older than the "child" in this video (his third violent offense, yet charged as a juvenile - free today) and my wife threaten by a young black man with a gun under his belt inside Wal-Mart. And this doesn't include many lessor incidents over the years, like the young lady, bloody and brused, crawling in our door late one evening to escape the gang of "children" chasing her. stewart I'm sorry to hear of your terrible loss, and the other hard circumstances you and your family have had to endure. (I really am - I'm not being facetious at all) I'm also sorry these terrible experiences have caused you to have a "ends justifies the means" mentality, which allows you to think horrible violence against a 15 year old girl is OK, because it might help stamp out other violence/criminal activity. Surely you can see this is flawed thinking?

03-02-2009, 06:32 PM	#41
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	This reminds me of the Alaskan State Trooper that tazed his 10 year old step son. The officer needs dealt with but it is not an international matter. What is the Hague going to do? Invade Washington?