1st 40d impressions

palmor · 03-05-2009, 10:06 AM

Hi everyone,
I mentioned in another thread how I picked up a 40d and 70-200 f2.8 L non IS do shoot some dog agility after not being happy with the Sigma 70-200EX HSM. A few people asked me to give some impressions of the 40d so here they are.

Now, I've only had it for a day so I'm not 100% comfortable with the camera yet but here it goes.

I am not liking the 40d menu system at all. The k20 is so much more intuitive, of course it could be because I've used a Pentax for so long... but little things like having to go into the menu system to delete all the photos from the card instead of just hitting the trash button twice, or having to hold a button down and use one of the scroll wheels to change AF modes instead of a hardware switch on the outside... stuff like that.
The LCD screen is far inferior to the K20. On the Pentax I used the screen a lot to see if my shots were in focus or not but on the 40d I can't tell. For example, I took a couple of shots and zoomed in on the 40d and they looked soft, got them on the PC and they were tack sharp.
Of course not having SR/IS hit me right away. I wont' be needing IS in the dog agility so I didn't spend the extra $500-$700 for it in the lens... but when the lens got in last night after dark I realized just how spoiled I was by the Pentax system
So far it seems like the K20 handles ISO3200 much better the the 40d. I know the 40d doesn't have real ISO3200 (it is pushed) but I tried it anyway. The good thing is that it retained a lot of detail (in RAW) and running a quick noise reduction pass made the photo look great.
Now some of the positives, starting off small. I love how the 40d will overlay the focus point when you review it.
The text inside the viewfinder seems brighter then the K20 (something that I need to verify.. I wasn't using both cams back to back).
Focusing speed.. well with the 70-200L I just have to say wow. I don't think this is a shock to anyone but I did notice a difference right away.
AI Servo focusing mode does a great job at tracking (based on my limited use of taking photos of the dog outside). Again not much of a surprise here.
The Canon 70-200 f2.8 L USM is a fantastic lens. It is very sharp wide open and is incredibly silent. I also like how there is a focus limiter so make focusing that much faster.
IQ seems like a wash so far, at least to me.

So those are my initial impressions so far (again only have 1 day of use) and I think that I'll be happy for the application that I'm going to be using it for. I may have different feelings (one way or the other) after I really start to use the cam.

What kind of post would it be if I didn't provide examples. Here is a sequence of shots (this is the entire sequence) taken outside the morning, 1st time I used the cam other then some test shots inside. The last shot is out of focus because Ash got within the min focusing distance of the lens but I wanted to include it to show the entire sequence.

Canon EOS 40D ,Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM
1/8000s f/4.0 at 70.0mm iso200

Canon EOS 40D ,Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM
1/5000s f/4.0 at 70.0mm iso200

Canon EOS 40D ,Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM
1/6400s f/4.0 at 70.0mm iso200

Canon EOS 40D ,Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM
1/4000s f/4.0 at 70.0mm iso200

And here is the ISO3200 shot. This was taken handheld and I did a default pass of noise reduction with the Noiseware PhotoShop plugin.

Canon EOS 40D ,Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM
1/100s f/2.8 at 90.0mm iso3200

Thanks
John

Alfisti · 03-05-2009, 10:30 AM

For all the fanboy bleating that we make up stories re. AF and for all the bashers that say IQ is poor in our system, your experiences pretty sum up exactly what i would expect. The Pentax system holds it's own, with likely better useability but as soon as something moves you're left wanting.

k100d · 03-05-2009, 12:36 PM

the 40D is a solid piece of kit, no doubt about that.

as for the "screen" issue, i think the Canon's don't actually let you see the whole picture, instead when you zoom in, it's on a smaller image. you might want to check that for more info.
as to the AF, i read that for sports it is better than the 5D but worse than the 1's (obviously) (Rob Galbraith said this, the guy who documented all the AF problems)

pingflood · 03-05-2009, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by k100d

the 40D is a solid piece of kit, no doubt about that.

as for the "screen" issue, i think the Canon's don't actually let you see the whole picture, instead when you zoom in, it's on a smaller image. you might want to check that for more info.
as to the AF, i read that for sports it is better than the 5D but worse than the 1's (obviously) (Rob Galbraith said this, the guy who documented all the AF problems)

I have no idea about the 40D, but the 1Ds2 uses a pretty small jpeg for the LCD preview. It's bad enough that it's virtually impossible to focus check. The fix is to shoot RAW+JPEG (small jpeg is enough, barely adds to the file size at all); then the jpeg created is used for preview instead, much improved! (Though to be honest, having this camera screw up the focus is a very very rare event. I might have 3-4 shots out of hundreds that aren't properly focused and generally because the camera picked a tree branch or something that was in the way.)

Not sure if the 40D works the same way.

Arpe · 03-05-2009, 05:03 PM

Thank you Palmor.

"AI Servo focusing mode does a great job at tracking " - does it track a moving object moving across the screen, that is can it automatically change focus point to track the object? Or are you talking about tracking using a single point?

palmor · 03-05-2009, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by pingflood

I have no idea about the 40D, but the 1Ds2 uses a pretty small jpeg for the LCD preview. It's bad enough that it's virtually impossible to focus check. The fix is to shoot RAW+JPEG (small jpeg is enough, barely adds to the file size at all); then the jpeg created is used for preview instead, much improved! (Though to be honest, having this camera screw up the focus is a very very rare event. I might have 3-4 shots out of hundreds that aren't properly focused and generally because the camera picked a tree branch or something that was in the way.)

Not sure if the 40D works the same way.

Thanks for the tip. I tried it and it doesn't seem any better so I bet they left that "feature" for the higher end cams. I hope I get even close to that many keepers with the 40d but from everything I've read the 1Ds have much more accurate off center points and of course faster AF.

Originally posted by Arpe

Thank you Palmor.

"AI Servo focusing mode does a great job at tracking " - does it track a moving object moving across the screen, that is can it automatically change focus point to track the object? Or are you talking about tracking using a single point?

I was using center point but it will automatically change focus points if you set it up like that. I haven't used that option yet but I got that suggestion from some people on the canon forums. The one thing I've read about is that because the off center focus points are spaced far enough from the center point it could loose focus if you are tracking something relatively small. I have to test it though.

John

**Marc Langille** · 03-06-2009, 04:58 AM

Hi John,

I agree about the 40D's menus... ugh. Apparently more than a few Canon users bashed it for the poor quality LCD panel. I couldn't tell it a shot was sharp or not...

Of course, I was shooting with a darker/longer lens into shaded areas = crappy combination. It would do well with that situation below ISO 1000 in many instances. Any other lighting scenario the 40D was remarkably good or excellent (most of the time). I think I prefer trying a true pro spec body though - MKII or MKIII for better AF, etc.

Regards,
Marc

Last edited by Marc Langille; 03-06-2009 at 06:43 AM. Reason: typo

palmor · 03-06-2009, 05:12 AM

Originally posted by Marc Langille

Hi John,

I agree about the 40D's menus... ugh. Apparently more than a few Canon users bashed it for the poor quality LCD panel. I couldn't tell it a shot was sharp or not...

Of course, I was shooting with a darker/longer lens into shaded areas = crappy combination. It would do well with that situation above ISO 1000 in many instances. Any other lighting scenario the 40D was remarkably good or excellent (most of the time). I think I prefer trying a true pro spec body though - MKII or MKIII for better AF, etc.

Regards,
Marc

Hi Marc,
I was wondering if you were going to see this thread and if you agreed with any of my initial impressions

. I can only imagine the performance increase in one of the pro-spec bodies!

On a side note I found a pretty ironic thread over on the P.O.T.N forums where some users where wishing for an option to ADD a double check to their AF. The grass is always greener

John

pingflood · 03-06-2009, 05:38 AM

Originally posted by palmor

Thanks for the tip. I tried it and it doesn't seem any better so I bet they left that "feature" for the higher end cams. I hope I get even close to that many keepers with the 40d but from everything I've read the 1Ds have much more accurate off center points and of course faster AF.

I think the 40D has pretty decent AF points, but the 1-bodies definitely have the edge when it comes to speed and in particular tracking.

I know it's a little late to suggest it, but did you look at a used 1D Mk II as an alternative to the 40D? You can get them for < $1k used, and while they are "only" 8MP you get incredible AF and 8.5 fps

(Though the LCD is nothing to write home about; my camera is essentially identical to the 1D II other than the sensor and the 2" LCD while not bad doesn't really compare to more current ones. Then again, I mostly use it for histogram checks, focus accuracy is such a non-concern on these rigs!)

palmor · 03-06-2009, 05:51 AM

Originally posted by pingflood

I think the 40D has pretty decent AF points, but the 1-bodies definitely have the edge when it comes to speed and in particular tracking.

I know it's a little late to suggest it, but did you look at a used 1D Mk II as an alternative to the 40D? You can get them for < $1k used, and while they are "only" 8MP you get incredible AF and 8.5 fps

(Though the LCD is nothing to write home about; my camera is essentially identical to the 1D II other than the sensor and the 2" LCD while not bad doesn't really compare to more current ones. Then again, I mostly use it for histogram checks, focus accuracy is such a non-concern on these rigs!)

It was a thought but the 1D II's that I was looking at were all ~$1200 which was above my budget since I was also getting the lens. Basically I had to keep the cost of camera and lens close to the money I made selling a few of my unused Pentax lenses. The 40d I bought as a direct refirb from Canon for only $699 and looks brand new and comes with a 3 month Canon warranty. Even with the cheap body I still had to kick in $450 (shh don't tell the wife)

I will say though that if I end up liking the 40d I could see myself saving up for a used 1DS II in a year or so (they are in the low/mid 2k's now @KEH). But then again who knows what Pentax has in store for us, which would be my 1st choice

John

pingflood · 03-06-2009, 05:57 AM

Originally posted by palmor

It was a thought but the 1D II's that I was looking at were all ~$1200 which was above my budget since I was also getting the lens. Basically I had to keep the cost of camera and lens close to the money I made selling a few of my unused Pentax lenses. The 40d I bought as a direct refirb from Canon for only $699 and looks brand new and comes with a 3 month Canon warranty. Even with the cheap body I still had to kick in $450 (shh don't tell the wife)

I will say though that if I end up liking the 40d I could see myself saving up for a used 1DS II in a year or so (they are in the low/mid 2k's now @KEH). But then again who knows what Pentax has in store for us, which would be my 1st choice

John

Well, at $699 I can't really make an argument for the 1DII.

Sounds like you got a really good deal!

I bet you'll be able to get a 1Ds II for well under $2k next year. Mine was right at $2,000 and while I am aware it was a very good deal I have seen a few more around that range on occasion. You'll probably get spoiled with the frame rate of the 40D though, and the 1Ds II is a mere 4fps...

But, you never know what Pentax will bring out. The K20D is a super camera that just need a little tweaking to make it really awesome.

(PS: If you haven't shot the 85/1.8 check it out. It's a little long on a crop body but WOW. It's been on my camera since I got back from overseas and until I get the 24-70L or 24-105L it will probably remain my "walk around" lens.)

03-05-2009, 10:06 AM	#1
palmor Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: North of Boston, MA Posts: 798	1st 40d impressions Hi everyone, I mentioned in another thread how I picked up a 40d and 70-200 f2.8 L non IS do shoot some dog agility after not being happy with the Sigma 70-200EX HSM. A few people asked me to give some impressions of the 40d so here they are. Now, I've only had it for a day so I'm not 100% comfortable with the camera yet but here it goes. I am not liking the 40d menu system at all. The k20 is so much more intuitive, of course it could be because I've used a Pentax for so long... but little things like having to go into the menu system to delete all the photos from the card instead of just hitting the trash button twice, or having to hold a button down and use one of the scroll wheels to change AF modes instead of a hardware switch on the outside... stuff like that. The LCD screen is far inferior to the K20. On the Pentax I used the screen a lot to see if my shots were in focus or not but on the 40d I can't tell. For example, I took a couple of shots and zoomed in on the 40d and they looked soft, got them on the PC and they were tack sharp. Of course not having SR/IS hit me right away. I wont' be needing IS in the dog agility so I didn't spend the extra $500-$700 for it in the lens... but when the lens got in last night after dark I realized just how spoiled I was by the Pentax system So far it seems like the K20 handles ISO3200 much better the the 40d. I know the 40d doesn't have real ISO3200 (it is pushed) but I tried it anyway. The good thing is that it retained a lot of detail (in RAW) and running a quick noise reduction pass made the photo look great. Now some of the positives, starting off small. I love how the 40d will overlay the focus point when you review it. The text inside the viewfinder seems brighter then the K20 (something that I need to verify.. I wasn't using both cams back to back). Focusing speed.. well with the 70-200L I just have to say wow. I don't think this is a shock to anyone but I did notice a difference right away. AI Servo focusing mode does a great job at tracking (based on my limited use of taking photos of the dog outside). Again not much of a surprise here. The Canon 70-200 f2.8 L USM is a fantastic lens. It is very sharp wide open and is incredibly silent. I also like how there is a focus limiter so make focusing that much faster. IQ seems like a wash so far, at least to me. So those are my initial impressions so far (again only have 1 day of use) and I think that I'll be happy for the application that I'm going to be using it for. I may have different feelings (one way or the other) after I really start to use the cam. What kind of post would it be if I didn't provide examples. Here is a sequence of shots (this is the entire sequence) taken outside the morning, 1st time I used the cam other then some test shots inside. The last shot is out of focus because Ash got within the min focusing distance of the lens but I wanted to include it to show the entire sequence. Canon EOS 40D ,Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM 1/8000s f/4.0 at 70.0mm iso200 Canon EOS 40D ,Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM 1/5000s f/4.0 at 70.0mm iso200 Canon EOS 40D ,Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM 1/6400s f/4.0 at 70.0mm iso200 Canon EOS 40D ,Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM 1/4000s f/4.0 at 70.0mm iso200 And here is the ISO3200 shot. This was taken handheld and I did a default pass of noise reduction with the Noiseware PhotoShop plugin. Canon EOS 40D ,Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM 1/100s f/2.8 at 90.0mm iso3200 Thanks John

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03-05-2009, 10:30 AM	#2
Alfisti Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toronto (for now) Posts: 1,748	For all the fanboy bleating that we make up stories re. AF and for all the bashers that say IQ is poor in our system, your experiences pretty sum up exactly what i would expect. The Pentax system holds it's own, with likely better useability but as soon as something moves you're left wanting.

03-05-2009, 12:36 PM	#3
k100d Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 3,911	the 40D is a solid piece of kit, no doubt about that. as for the "screen" issue, i think the Canon's don't actually let you see the whole picture, instead when you zoom in, it's on a smaller image. you might want to check that for more info. as to the AF, i read that for sports it is better than the 5D but worse than the 1's (obviously) (Rob Galbraith said this, the guy who documented all the AF problems)

03-05-2009, 03:49 PM	#4
pingflood Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Borås, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,169	Originally posted by k100d the 40D is a solid piece of kit, no doubt about that. as for the "screen" issue, i think the Canon's don't actually let you see the whole picture, instead when you zoom in, it's on a smaller image. you might want to check that for more info. as to the AF, i read that for sports it is better than the 5D but worse than the 1's (obviously) (Rob Galbraith said this, the guy who documented all the AF problems) I have no idea about the 40D, but the 1Ds2 uses a pretty small jpeg for the LCD preview. It's bad enough that it's virtually impossible to focus check. The fix is to shoot RAW+JPEG (small jpeg is enough, barely adds to the file size at all); then the jpeg created is used for preview instead, much improved! (Though to be honest, having this camera screw up the focus is a very very rare event. I might have 3-4 shots out of hundreds that aren't properly focused and generally because the camera picked a tree branch or something that was in the way.) Not sure if the 40D works the same way.

03-05-2009, 05:03 PM	#5
Arpe Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,452	Thank you Palmor. "AI Servo focusing mode does a great job at tracking " - does it track a moving object moving across the screen, that is can it automatically change focus point to track the object? Or are you talking about tracking using a single point?

03-05-2009, 05:41 PM	#6
palmor Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: North of Boston, MA Posts: 798 Original Poster	Originally posted by pingflood I have no idea about the 40D, but the 1Ds2 uses a pretty small jpeg for the LCD preview. It's bad enough that it's virtually impossible to focus check. The fix is to shoot RAW+JPEG (small jpeg is enough, barely adds to the file size at all); then the jpeg created is used for preview instead, much improved! (Though to be honest, having this camera screw up the focus is a very very rare event. I might have 3-4 shots out of hundreds that aren't properly focused and generally because the camera picked a tree branch or something that was in the way.) Not sure if the 40D works the same way. Thanks for the tip. I tried it and it doesn't seem any better so I bet they left that "feature" for the higher end cams. I hope I get even close to that many keepers with the 40d but from everything I've read the 1Ds have much more accurate off center points and of course faster AF. Originally posted by Arpe Thank you Palmor. "AI Servo focusing mode does a great job at tracking " - does it track a moving object moving across the screen, that is can it automatically change focus point to track the object? Or are you talking about tracking using a single point? I was using center point but it will automatically change focus points if you set it up like that. I haven't used that option yet but I got that suggestion from some people on the canon forums. The one thing I've read about is that because the off center focus points are spaced far enough from the center point it could loose focus if you are tracking something relatively small. I have to test it though. John

03-06-2009, 04:58 AM	#7
Marc Langille Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NW Arkansas, USA Posts: 4,710	Hi John, I agree about the 40D's menus... ugh. Apparently more than a few Canon users bashed it for the poor quality LCD panel. I couldn't tell it a shot was sharp or not... Of course, I was shooting with a darker/longer lens into shaded areas = crappy combination. It would do well with that situation below ISO 1000 in many instances. Any other lighting scenario the 40D was remarkably good or excellent (most of the time). I think I prefer trying a true pro spec body though - MKII or MKIII for better AF, etc. Regards, Marc Last edited by Marc Langille; 03-06-2009 at 06:43 AM. Reason: typo

03-06-2009, 05:12 AM	#8
palmor Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: North of Boston, MA Posts: 798 Original Poster	Originally posted by Marc Langille Hi John, I agree about the 40D's menus... ugh. Apparently more than a few Canon users bashed it for the poor quality LCD panel. I couldn't tell it a shot was sharp or not... Of course, I was shooting with a darker/longer lens into shaded areas = crappy combination. It would do well with that situation above ISO 1000 in many instances. Any other lighting scenario the 40D was remarkably good or excellent (most of the time). I think I prefer trying a true pro spec body though - MKII or MKIII for better AF, etc. Regards, Marc Hi Marc, I was wondering if you were going to see this thread and if you agreed with any of my initial impressions . I can only imagine the performance increase in one of the pro-spec bodies! On a side note I found a pretty ironic thread over on the P.O.T.N forums where some users where wishing for an option to ADD a double check to their AF. The grass is always greener John

03-06-2009, 05:38 AM	#9
pingflood Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Borås, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,169	Originally posted by palmor Thanks for the tip. I tried it and it doesn't seem any better so I bet they left that "feature" for the higher end cams. I hope I get even close to that many keepers with the 40d but from everything I've read the 1Ds have much more accurate off center points and of course faster AF. I think the 40D has pretty decent AF points, but the 1-bodies definitely have the edge when it comes to speed and in particular tracking. I know it's a little late to suggest it, but did you look at a used 1D Mk II as an alternative to the 40D? You can get them for < $1k used, and while they are "only" 8MP you get incredible AF and 8.5 fps (Though the LCD is nothing to write home about; my camera is essentially identical to the 1D II other than the sensor and the 2" LCD while not bad doesn't really compare to more current ones. Then again, I mostly use it for histogram checks, focus accuracy is such a non-concern on these rigs!)

03-06-2009, 05:51 AM	#10
palmor Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: North of Boston, MA Posts: 798 Original Poster	Originally posted by pingflood I think the 40D has pretty decent AF points, but the 1-bodies definitely have the edge when it comes to speed and in particular tracking. I know it's a little late to suggest it, but did you look at a used 1D Mk II as an alternative to the 40D? You can get them for < $1k used, and while they are "only" 8MP you get incredible AF and 8.5 fps (Though the LCD is nothing to write home about; my camera is essentially identical to the 1D II other than the sensor and the 2" LCD while not bad doesn't really compare to more current ones. Then again, I mostly use it for histogram checks, focus accuracy is such a non-concern on these rigs!) It was a thought but the 1D II's that I was looking at were all ~$1200 which was above my budget since I was also getting the lens. Basically I had to keep the cost of camera and lens close to the money I made selling a few of my unused Pentax lenses. The 40d I bought as a direct refirb from Canon for only $699 and looks brand new and comes with a 3 month Canon warranty. Even with the cheap body I still had to kick in $450 (shh don't tell the wife) I will say though that if I end up liking the 40d I could see myself saving up for a used 1DS II in a year or so (they are in the low/mid 2k's now @KEH). But then again who knows what Pentax has in store for us, which would be my 1st choice John

03-06-2009, 05:57 AM	#11
pingflood Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Borås, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,169	Originally posted by palmor It was a thought but the 1D II's that I was looking at were all ~$1200 which was above my budget since I was also getting the lens. Basically I had to keep the cost of camera and lens close to the money I made selling a few of my unused Pentax lenses. The 40d I bought as a direct refirb from Canon for only $699 and looks brand new and comes with a 3 month Canon warranty. Even with the cheap body I still had to kick in $450 (shh don't tell the wife) I will say though that if I end up liking the 40d I could see myself saving up for a used 1DS II in a year or so (they are in the low/mid 2k's now @KEH). But then again who knows what Pentax has in store for us, which would be my 1st choice John Well, at $699 I can't really make an argument for the 1DII. Sounds like you got a really good deal! I bet you'll be able to get a 1Ds II for well under $2k next year. Mine was right at $2,000 and while I am aware it was a very good deal I have seen a few more around that range on occasion. You'll probably get spoiled with the frame rate of the 40D though, and the 1Ds II is a mere 4fps... But, you never know what Pentax will bring out. The K20D is a super camera that just need a little tweaking to make it really awesome. (PS: If you haven't shot the 85/1.8 check it out. It's a little long on a crop body but WOW. It's been on my camera since I got back from overseas and until I get the 24-70L or 24-105L it will probably remain my "walk around" lens.)