[jeenyus]

I started writing articles for online content providers for extra money. My first article was rejected for improper comma usage.

When I was looking for a site with the rules for comma usage, I found one with lots of other grammar exercises. I started at the beginning, with verbs, and realized how much basic grammar I don't know.

My problem is this, I graduated from high school with honors. There's no reason anyone should be graduating from high school with honors if they don't know how to put a sentence together(put together a sentence?)

I don't think it's a problem with the resources offered by schools. I think you can get a hell of a lot out of school, if you apply yourself, and take it seriously. I did neither of those things, and I know that's my fault. My main interests were martial arts, skateboarding, and doing drugs. But I also think that if I didn't know how to properly construct a sentence, then there's no reason I should have graduated with honors. I should have been given a "hey, you just barely made it" diploma, at best.

I have no problem with teaching myself grammar now. But I think it's sad that I was even allowed to pass the 12th grade, without having it so chiseled into my mind, that I couldn't forget it if I wanted to.

Just so you know, I'm 26. So high school was a long time ago for me. I started this writing thing because my career as real estate appraiser isn't exactly a career anymore. Also, my next business won't be up and running until some time in April.

I apologize for all of the improper punctuation, and grammar mistakes that I'm sure are in this rant. I would go back and fix them, but I don't know how

[Nico]

Hi, I came to the United States at 16. Attended ESL because there was no English as Third Language class. Graduated high school in 3 years. It was fairly easy to graduate with good grades.

I want to tell you that you are approaching this situation with the right attitude. I feel that one should not stop learning until the day he or she dies. You probably don't know it but all those years in school gave you enough tools (basic foundation) for you to be able to improve yourself later on your life.

I also like to apologize for all of the improper punctuation, and grammar mistakes that I'm sure are in this reply.

[lithos]

If you've ever been wandering around on the internet, no one else knows any grammar, either. Or spelling. Or even the difference between numerals and letters.

Grammar is a real bastard. It's the linquistic equivalent of calculus, or accounting.

For every rule, there's a contradiction.

[Ash]

Some people, particularly teachers, are very particular about phonetics, grammar and spelling. That's OK - they keep the rest of us on our toes to use proper English. But for the rest of us, as long as we know what is meant, then it really doesn't matter too much.

Interestingly, a recent study found that if you constructed any sentence with the letters of the words jumbled up EXCEPT the first and last letters of each word, then the majority of people reading the sentence can actually reassemble each word and thus understand the sentence.

so myabe we suohldnt be too hasrh on ecah ohter wehn it cmeos to slpelnig?

[J.Scott]

I can relate to the OP's story. I was a goof ball in High School. I pissed away so much time and energy on things not academic. Somehow I pulled myself together and got through it and college and barely graduated with a diploma in Forestry. Through all of this I really labored at writing and using grammatically correct English.

When I was about 40 my interest in writing was rekindled by a close friend that was publishing weekly articles for a local rag. I thought if he can do it, so can I. So I started to write. I will be the first to admit I was not very good, however, with practice my skills improved. I bought a few 'self-help' books which I was sure would encourage me to follow this course. They were more frustrating than helpful. One that I would recommend, though, is 'Strunk and White; The Elements of Style'. It is a tiny book that tries to make sense of English grammar. I also attended a Creative Writing course at the local Community College where the instructor was very helpful.

In time I sent a few samples of my writing to another local paper and they agreed to publish my stories once a month. I was paid nothing for my efforts but I gained the courage and the skills to continue. The editor at the paper was very critical but supportive. I also had a couple of articles published in magazines.

You're going to stumble and fall and have many painful rejections but use this as a positive step to maturing your talent. Few great writers got that way without effort and pitfalls. The biggest block you will have to overcome is the 4 pounds of goo between your ears. You can do this, and you know it.

High School is over. Don't look back and lament over your wayward youth; that can never be changed. Yeah, the system sucked, but you did too. Move forward, keep trying and never give up. It's true that you are never too old to learn. At 50 I applied to attend University and was accepted as a part time student. My average was 87%. Remember me? I was the goof-off in High School that got through by the skin of my teeth, so anything is possible.

If you want to continue writing my advice is to practice, practice, practice. Learn what your editor wants and hone your skills around his/her wishes. Technical writing is more difficult that journalism or story telling. Practice - fail - learn - succeed. Forget about the faults of the education system; move forward today.

(Now I'll step off my soap box. )

[khardur]

so myabe we suohldnt be too hasrh on ecah ohter wehn it cmeos to slpelnig?

I had a good laugh when I read that last line with no problems at all.

For my "day job" I typeset stuff for a living, so I tend to take grammar and spelling pretty seriously. I do find, however, that I tend to write run-on sentences when I'm posting stuff here. Then I re-edit it so many times that I screw something else up.

[PeterAM]

The first week of my freshman year in college everyone had to take a series of English proficiency exams. A fair number of students were then required to take some quick skills type courses before classes started. That was in 1959, so it's obvious that some of these issues have been around for a long time.

[reeftool]

I'm in my late 50's but still remember the endless English drills and writing assignments from elementary school on through high school. This is not being taught any more. All three of my kids went on through college and spent the first semesters of their freshmen year learning to write. The college professors all mentioned that what our generation was taught in English in high school is now college taught. I did my share of goofing off too and didn't learn what I should have but I remember hearing it.

On a side note, I was cross country skiing a couple of weeks ago with a local English teacher and she told me kids are handing in papers and reports like they were text messages with misspelled words like "u" instead of "you" and has had to deal with angry parents after she failed them.

[baltochef920]

I do not know if modern Catholic schools still hammer spelling, punctuation, and grammar into their students heads like they used to, but I will say that back in the 1960's and 1970's it was virtually impossible to graduate from year-to-year in a Catholic school without a comprehensive knowledge and understanding of those subjects..

I attended public schools through the 12th grade..I can say unequivocally that my understanding of punctuation and grammar is far poorer than those of my contemporaries that attended Catholic schools..Several that transferred from Catholic schools into public high schools literally breezed through our high school English classes with absolutely no need to study whatsoever..They knew far more regarding spelling, punctuation, grammar, etc. by the time they finished the 7th or 8th grade than those of us that had completed the 11th grade..

Sad, but true..And, this was back in the early 1970's..I cannot imagine the disparity that exists today between private and Catholic schools, and our public schools, if the same level of education is still being taught..

[silvershoes]

I think one of the biggest problems is the NEA.

Kids today are every bit as bright as their parents were. But the focus of education has shifted to an alarming degree. I know kids whose teachers have told them "spelling really doesn't matter" and others whose teachers have shifted to grading in purple because "red hurts their feelings." Both of these initiatives stem from well-meaning but twisted mandates where someone overthought the problem.

This kind of thinking hampers the students' ability to compete with students from other countries. Instead of being taught properly to begin with, the students either have to take a remedial course in college or learn on their own. I have an aunt and uncle who both teach college English, and they're telling me the problem's epidemic.

One of the worst examples I ever saw was when the local paper here published photos of a job application. The application, for a management position, was full of grammatical mistakes and crossouts; the sad part was the applicant was a college graduate. The prospective employer furnished it and asked what was going on.

Sorry for the rant, but I really feel we're letting our kids down when we care more about peripheral issues and don't give them the education they need.

[ga-hing]

hook up the website you went to for the grammar tips!

ty in advance

[Alfisti]

As an employer, we keep kids in school WAY too long teaching them from books when frankly more of them could leave school earlier and get more practical training at a college or something similar. Mosty of the bright kids that come through to us are bright, but book bright, they'd struggle to know how to $hit if their arse wasn't pointing down.

Educational budgets always fall victim to cuts. There has been a gradual dumbing down of what is being taught. Classes are too big. Parents don't get involved. America has been gradually slipping down the global league table as far as education goes. I'm sure there are many other reasons.
I could be cynical and say that a more highly educated America would have even more problems than now in recruiting for the military.
If the American dream still exists, people need to realise it is unreachable without a decent education.

I agree somewhat with Alfisti, if they aren't getting an education at school, let industry and commerce train them to be productive citizens but my preference would be to raise standards.

[a a i b]

You should know that at a certain point grammar yields to style.

Also: content ALWAYS trumps a few comma splices. Concentrate on your meaning, and message.

Not that different from what separates a good photo from the dross. And also: easy to describe, hard to do.

[jeenyus]

I tried to save some space by not quoting the longer replies, and just putting the name of the person I'm replying to. I appreciate all the responses.

Interestingly, a recent study found that if you constructed any sentence with the letters of the words jumbled up EXCEPT the first and last letters of each word, then the majority of people reading the sentence can actually reassemble each word and thus understand the sentence.

so myabe we suohldnt be too hasrh on ecah ohter wehn it cmeos to slpelnig?

Haha, I love those emails.

@J.Scott

Thanks for the reply, it gives me hope. I have no delusions about the process being easy. I've heard of 'Elements of Style'. My sister said she has a copy around somewhere, but I can't find it, so I'm going to pick that up. I have William Zinsser's book 'On Writing Well', it's been very helpful, but makes the assumption that you already have your grammmar skills mastered.

@Silvershoes

I agree, kid's feelings are too protected now, and it makes teacher's jobs that much harder.

hook up the website you went to for the grammar tips!

ty in advance

Daily Grammar Lessons Archive - Comprehensive archive of grammar lessons

You should know that at a certain point grammar yields to style.

Also: content ALWAYS trumps a few comma splices. Concentrate on your meaning, and message.

Not that different from what separates a good photo from the dross. And also: easy to describe, hard to do.

I totally agree. A grammaticly correct sentence, completely devoid of thought, or entertainment value, is useless. Unless you're using it to teach grammar. I also think it's important to know the rules first, then deliberately bend or break them to get the results you want. I think if you look at most of the people who have made great art, either in writing, or photography, they could easily write a technically correct sentence, or take a technically correct photo, if they want to, but choose not to in order to express themselves.