Hypocrisy of the United States Government

baltochef920 · 03-18-2009, 03:05 PM

Earlier today, I watched on Fox News for the better part of an hour, the U.S. Senate grill the CEO of AIG Insurance like he was a Nazi war criminal..I thought this man was going to have a heart attack any second his face was so red..As soon as the Senate broke for an hour to go vote, I learned that the original stimulus bill that President Obama signed had legislation in it that specifically was going to limit, and or prohibit, any bonuses from being paid out until AIG was financially solvent again, and had paid back the money being loaned to it..

Surprise!!Surprise!!..Who but Senator Chris Dodd, Democrat for the state of Connecticut, rammed through an amendment just before the stimulus bill passed the Senate on its way to Obama's desk, that specifically removed the bonus and repayment language from the bill, and replaced it with language that was FAR more generous to those execs at AIG..

The original language limiting, or prohibiting, bonuses would have REQUIRED AIG to agree to that stipulation in order to qualify for the bail-out money..Thus, by agreeing to accept the bail-out money, no executive at AIG would have been able to argue that they were due any form of bonus money due to contractual obligations..As a worst case scenario they would simply never have received any of the bail-out money in the form of a bonus..The more likely scenario is that the bonus moneys due late in 2008, and early in 2009 would simply have been deferred until AIG was free of its debt to the U.S. Government..Even had that taken a decade these execs would still have been paid for those bonuses stipulated in their LEGAL, BINDING contracts..

Now, because of Chris Dodd, and other mealy-mouthed Democrats that forced more moderate Democrats and Republican senators into agreeing to change the language of the stimulus bill, we the taxpayers are legally stuck and REQUIRED to pay these under-achieving execs at AIG huge million dollar bonuses..Bonuses to the tune of 165 million dollars worth of the bail-out money..

The worst part about this fiasco is that it was entirely avoidable..The original bill had perfectly adequate language in it to insure that the bonuses would either not be paid at all, or delayed until AIG paid those bonuses out with funds that were not taxpayer dollars..Now, because of greedy, short-sighted Senators that DO NOT have the best interests of the United States in mind, we the citizens are LEGALLY REQUIRED to pay out these monies..

The United States Constitution that protects our rights to free speech, free assembly, to bear arms, to photograph in public, etc., is the very same Constitution that requires us to uphold these obscene bonuses that the execs at AIG are contractually entitled to..For legal, binding contracts are a part of the bedrock that underpins our society..

Watching those sanctimonious Senators berate and castigate Mr. Liddy, the CEO of AIG earlier today for the bonuses; only to find out after they broke for the 1-hour recess that THEY WERE PRIMARILY RESPONSIBLE for the entire situation, literally made me sick to my stomach..There does not seem to be any limit to the hypocrisy displayed by the Senate, the members of the House of Representatives, nor the White House..

All three of these entities had multiple representatives at the various meetings held with AIG prior to President Obama signing the stimulus bill..There is absolutely no reason, other than incompetence or corruption, that the Congress and the White House could have failed to be aware of the bonuses that the AIG execs were due to be paid because of their contracts..

The same assessment applies to those same members of Congress, and the Bush White House that ALLOWED all of the bonuses to be paid out from the first stimulus bill that President Bush signed into law..As far as I am concerned, the entire Congress and the Obama administration are AT BEST grossly incompetent, and at worst completely corrupt..The truth is probably a bit of both..

It is enough to really make one despair of any kind of meaningful change EVER occurring here in the United States..I have lost any faith I once had in President Obama before he took office..He seems to have no ability to rein in the more egregious members of his own party..I am increasingly starting to wonder if he EVER had any intention of keeping ANY of his campaign promises..So far, the ones that he has kept simply pale into insignificance compared to the ones he has broken..

Rant Over!!..

flyer · 03-18-2009, 03:22 PM

What did you expect from a government? We have the same kind of a$$ hole in power in Canada. Actually, Prime Minister Harper is a clone of G. W. Bush in disguise.

khardur · 03-18-2009, 06:09 PM

I'm not saying you haven't made good points, but don't believe everything you see on Fox News. Most news outlets lean left or right to a certain degree, but Fox News is absolutely the worst as far as their bias goes.

The money they have payed those bonuses with isn't from Obama's stimulus package, that's barely even started to make it's way anywhere yet. It most likely came from the separate bailout monies AIG received. (They got an $85 billion bailout loan long before the original $700B bailout of Wall Street was put together, creating the TARP program).

They got another emergency loan after that, I think close to 135B and would long have been bankrupt and unable to pay those bonuses if the government doesn't now have a nearly 80% stake in the company. But I tell you if I owned 80% of a company I sure as hell would have something to say about where that money is going.

I understand what you're saying, trust me I do. But look to whoever drafted the first couple AIG bailouts back in 2008 to lay the blame. (Dems or Reps, or a mix of both - the language wasn't stiff enough because Washington is afraid of the "N" word - Nationalization)

The bigger issue with that language is this: In the original 700B bailout - many big banks were forced to take bailout money, because if it could be pinpointed which firms REALLY needed it then it wouldn't matter how much money the Fed pumped into them, all the shareholders would run for the hills and their stock would dip so low they wouldn't be able to recover...

After listening and reading hundreds of news stories on this stuff, I'm convinced the language in these packages is worded so companies with healthy balance sheets wouldn't be punished for "taking" some of this money when they don't really need or want it - They already feel the language is too stiff and don't really need the money, but were/are forced to participate in order to prevent mass hysteria from breaking out regarding the so called "too big to fail" banks.

raz-0 · 03-18-2009, 06:36 PM

Sorry khardur, you are just wrong.

The intial bailouts for AIG were rather void of rules. Which is why language to fix some of that was included in revisions of the second half of the stimulus package.
Since they had not yet engaged on paying out bonuses at the time of the legislation, it likely wouldn't even have been challengable as an ex post facto law or regulation.

It was removed because of political pressure. Dodd spearheaded it, because his state likely stands to lose a great deal of income tax revenue if those bonuses aren't paid out.

Right or left has little to do with it. The fact that they will spend hundreds of millions of dollars chasing a small fraction of that in the form of state tax revenue is horrificly stupid, and all too commonplace.

creampuff · 03-18-2009, 07:43 PM

Why even bail-out those clever financial hacks in those financial institutions?
Either let them go into receivership or take over them completely. Half measures don't work but unfortunately Americans are adverse to even the mention of the dreaded nationalization.

Damn Brit · 03-18-2009, 07:52 PM

There was an item on the local news here tonight, the Bank of Marin had been given 28 million and had loaned out 27 million of it already. They are now trying to give it back because they say the new rules are too restrictive.

This administration hasn't been around long enough yet to be judged IMO. I personally wouldn't trust anything I heard on F** news, last time I saw it (sometime last year), they still hadn't come round to the fact that there are and were no WMDs.

graphicgr8s · 03-18-2009, 08:29 PM

Balto, you're just a right wing nut watching the worst news network in the world. I mean they are so right wing it's a joke to call them a news network. If you want the real facts you should be watching quality news networks such as CNN. And Clearchannel is even worse than Fox. I mean they are so right wing. Why just to spite people they actually let Air America broadcast on their stations. What nerve. Hmmph!

Guess by now ya'll realize this is sarcasm.

The current leader of the treasury was instrumental in negotiating those contracts with the bonuses. Then says he didn't know about it. Says incompetance to me. Besides being a tax cheat. Geithner should be fired but that won't happen. Dodd and Frank should be in jail. And Fox sure has a lot more liberal hosts than the Communist News Network has Conservatives.
They say they give the bonuses for retention. Retention? These are the idiots that drove the company into this situation. They should be fired and competent personell should be brought in. At least Liddy is only making $1.00 per year and he came in after all this crap happened
What about Obama not choosing lobbyists? What hapened to that?

The fox is watching the hen house

Clicker · 03-18-2009, 08:52 PM

Originally posted by creampuff

Why even bail-out those clever financial hacks in those financial institutions?
Either let them go into receivership or take over them completely. Half measures don't work but unfortunately Americans are adverse to even the mention of the dreaded nationalization.

Unfortunately, the Financials are the ones who basically run the economy and AIG being one of the biggest, if let go as some say, would have cause a huge meltdown mushroom effect out towards the rest of the world. I too was outraged at the bonuses being paid but with things so chaotic and the speed they had to react, some holes weren't covered.

I don't think our PM Harper can be compared to Bush, because Harper doesn't look agile enough to duck a couple of boots

code4code5 · 03-18-2009, 08:55 PM

Originally posted by graphicgr8s

Balto, you're just a right wing nut watching the worst news network in the world. I mean they are so right wing it's a joke to call them a news network. If you want the real facts you should be watching quality news networks such as CNN. And Clearchannel is even worse than Fox. I mean they are so right wing. Why just to spite people they actually let Air America broadcast on their stations. What nerve. Hmmph!

Guess by now ya'll realize this is sarcasm.

The current leader of the treasury was instrumental in negotiating those contracts with the bonuses. Then says he didn't know about it. Says incompetance to me. Besides being a tax cheat. Geithner should be fired but that won't happen. Dodd and Frank should be in jail. And Fox sure has a lot more liberal hosts than the Communist News Network has Conservatives.
They say they give the bonuses for retention. Retention? These are the idiots that drove the company into this situation. They should be fired and competent personell should be brought in. At least Liddy is only making $1.00 per year and he came in after all this crap happened
What about Obama not choosing lobbyists? What hapened to that?

The fox is watching the hen house

The American public is being played, folks!! Chris Dodd and his croonies are doing exactly what they wanted from this stimulus plan. "Corporations are evil. Don't you see? They're taking your money! It's not fair. The government is here to work for you and make sure this injustice won't stand!"

Yeah... Guess what, ladies and gentlemen. It sure is easy to push a leftist agenda when capitalisim is played as a scape goat. Remember, Big Brother loves you!

graphicgr8s · 03-18-2009, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by code4code5

The American public is being played, folks!! Chris Dodd and his croonies are doing exactly what they wanted from this stimulus plan. "Corporations are evil. Don't you see? They're taking your money! It's not fair. The government is here to work for you and make sure this injustice won't stand!"

Yeah... Guess what, ladies and gentlemen. It sure is easy to push a leftist agenda when capitalisim is played as a scape goat. Remember, Big Brother loves you!

I think I've been insulted. How dare you call me a gentleman!

jeenyus · 03-18-2009, 09:23 PM

If any of you are worried about right and left biased media watch C-SPAN. You can watch the whole thing go down, instead of relying on whatever soundbytes your news channel picks for you. It's not as exciting as soundbytes and commentary, but much more accurate.

code4code5 · 03-18-2009, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by graphicgr8s

I think I've been insulted. How dare you call me a gentleman!

Point taken.

mithrandir · 03-19-2009, 07:38 AM

One fact remains. No elected Congressman or Senator read the Stimulus bills before voting on them.

slomojoe · 03-19-2009, 08:23 AM

I tend to agree with the general assessment, though not with the details. I think it is obvious that the Treasury blew it badly in this case, and this is unfortunately not an isolated instance at this point (fortunately, mostly on small impact stuff - as this is - but quite visibly nonetheless). It is also true that Dodd and whoever else was involved on the Senate side were too compliant with the Trasury demands in this case.

I am not sure what the rationalization for the change from the original language was. Clearly, there was a lot of pressure at the time from the usual media and political sources against anything that smells like limiting executive salaries (charges of socialism and related nonsense). Possibly, the administration felt that the political price to pay would be too high for a relatively small risk, and if so I am sure they now regret the miscalculation. Unfortunately, however, I am starting to have a feeling that Geithner is not what he was sold to be: a centrist Republican with a good relationship with business and finance types and a giant wonky brain for banking and macroeconomy issues. So far, he has seemed to me entirely too eager to protect his buddies in the finance world, at the expense of the public interests.

The people who dragged the entire economy to the brink because of speculations that at this point look borderline criminal did so in a clear attempt to enrich themselves in a business that grants huge short-term financial rewards precisely for that kind of gung-ho approach. At some point, that entire world attitude has to be brought down a couple notches, starting from a taxation system that unduly favors investment over labor earnings, and ending with the aggrandizement and over-rewarding of financial traders and other glorified accountant types.

graphicgr8s · 03-19-2009, 09:03 AM

Originally posted by mithrandir

One fact remains. No elected Congressman or Senator read the Stimulus bills before voting on them.

How could they have read it? The last one signed by Obama "All hail the Obama"
had to be signed before 6 p.m on a Friday because Stretch Pelosi had to be onboard the Botox 1 for the flight to meet the Pope. And they flew the other senator in I forget the name, but she/he was in the midwest for a family member's funeral and signed at 10 p.m. Then Obama "All hail the Obama" waited for what, three days so he could do it with all the fanfare in Colorado. What a joke.

Centrist Republican? Yeah right. He's a crook. If he were a Republican he would have gracefully stepped down as did the others. And most stepped down from personal problems, not political like Blogo. Libs go down kicking and screaming. Reps do it with grace. Problem is now with bringing a bill to tax 90-100% of the bonuses they have pretty much walked all over him (Geithner) and have shown they have NO confidence in him. Well, Obama "All hail the Obama" still does.

03-18-2009, 03:05 PM	#1
baltochef920 Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA Posts: 162	Hypocrisy of the United States Government Earlier today, I watched on Fox News for the better part of an hour, the U.S. Senate grill the CEO of AIG Insurance like he was a Nazi war criminal..I thought this man was going to have a heart attack any second his face was so red..As soon as the Senate broke for an hour to go vote, I learned that the original stimulus bill that President Obama signed had legislation in it that specifically was going to limit, and or prohibit, any bonuses from being paid out until AIG was financially solvent again, and had paid back the money being loaned to it.. Surprise!!Surprise!!..Who but Senator Chris Dodd, Democrat for the state of Connecticut, rammed through an amendment just before the stimulus bill passed the Senate on its way to Obama's desk, that specifically removed the bonus and repayment language from the bill, and replaced it with language that was FAR more generous to those execs at AIG.. The original language limiting, or prohibiting, bonuses would have REQUIRED AIG to agree to that stipulation in order to qualify for the bail-out money..Thus, by agreeing to accept the bail-out money, no executive at AIG would have been able to argue that they were due any form of bonus money due to contractual obligations..As a worst case scenario they would simply never have received any of the bail-out money in the form of a bonus..The more likely scenario is that the bonus moneys due late in 2008, and early in 2009 would simply have been deferred until AIG was free of its debt to the U.S. Government..Even had that taken a decade these execs would still have been paid for those bonuses stipulated in their LEGAL, BINDING contracts.. Now, because of Chris Dodd, and other mealy-mouthed Democrats that forced more moderate Democrats and Republican senators into agreeing to change the language of the stimulus bill, we the taxpayers are legally stuck and REQUIRED to pay these under-achieving execs at AIG huge million dollar bonuses..Bonuses to the tune of 165 million dollars worth of the bail-out money.. The worst part about this fiasco is that it was entirely avoidable..The original bill had perfectly adequate language in it to insure that the bonuses would either not be paid at all, or delayed until AIG paid those bonuses out with funds that were not taxpayer dollars..Now, because of greedy, short-sighted Senators that DO NOT have the best interests of the United States in mind, we the citizens are LEGALLY REQUIRED to pay out these monies.. The United States Constitution that protects our rights to free speech, free assembly, to bear arms, to photograph in public, etc., is the very same Constitution that requires us to uphold these obscene bonuses that the execs at AIG are contractually entitled to..For legal, binding contracts are a part of the bedrock that underpins our society.. Watching those sanctimonious Senators berate and castigate Mr. Liddy, the CEO of AIG earlier today for the bonuses; only to find out after they broke for the 1-hour recess that THEY WERE PRIMARILY RESPONSIBLE for the entire situation, literally made me sick to my stomach..There does not seem to be any limit to the hypocrisy displayed by the Senate, the members of the House of Representatives, nor the White House.. All three of these entities had multiple representatives at the various meetings held with AIG prior to President Obama signing the stimulus bill..There is absolutely no reason, other than incompetence or corruption, that the Congress and the White House could have failed to be aware of the bonuses that the AIG execs were due to be paid because of their contracts.. The same assessment applies to those same members of Congress, and the Bush White House that ALLOWED all of the bonuses to be paid out from the first stimulus bill that President Bush signed into law..As far as I am concerned, the entire Congress and the Obama administration are AT BEST grossly incompetent, and at worst completely corrupt..The truth is probably a bit of both.. It is enough to really make one despair of any kind of meaningful change EVER occurring here in the United States..I have lost any faith I once had in President Obama before he took office..He seems to have no ability to rein in the more egregious members of his own party..I am increasingly starting to wonder if he EVER had any intention of keeping ANY of his campaign promises..So far, the ones that he has kept simply pale into insignificance compared to the ones he has broken.. Rant Over!!..

03-18-2009, 09:23 PM	#11
jeenyus Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Plainville CT Photos: Albums Posts: 82	My suggestion If any of you are worried about right and left biased media watch C-SPAN. You can watch the whole thing go down, instead of relying on whatever soundbytes your news channel picks for you. It's not as exciting as soundbytes and commentary, but much more accurate.

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03-18-2009, 03:22 PM	#2
flyer Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Ste-Anne des Plaines, Qc., Canada Posts: 2,013	What did you expect from a government? We have the same kind of a$$ hole in power in Canada. Actually, Prime Minister Harper is a clone of G. W. Bush in disguise.

03-18-2009, 06:09 PM	#3
khardur Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Massachusetts Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,560	I'm not saying you haven't made good points, but don't believe everything you see on Fox News. Most news outlets lean left or right to a certain degree, but Fox News is absolutely the worst as far as their bias goes. The money they have payed those bonuses with isn't from Obama's stimulus package, that's barely even started to make it's way anywhere yet. It most likely came from the separate bailout monies AIG received. (They got an $85 billion bailout loan long before the original $700B bailout of Wall Street was put together, creating the TARP program). They got another emergency loan after that, I think close to 135B and would long have been bankrupt and unable to pay those bonuses if the government doesn't now have a nearly 80% stake in the company. But I tell you if I owned 80% of a company I sure as hell would have something to say about where that money is going. I understand what you're saying, trust me I do. But look to whoever drafted the first couple AIG bailouts back in 2008 to lay the blame. (Dems or Reps, or a mix of both - the language wasn't stiff enough because Washington is afraid of the "N" word - Nationalization) The bigger issue with that language is this: In the original 700B bailout - many big banks were forced to take bailout money, because if it could be pinpointed which firms REALLY needed it then it wouldn't matter how much money the Fed pumped into them, all the shareholders would run for the hills and their stock would dip so low they wouldn't be able to recover... After listening and reading hundreds of news stories on this stuff, I'm convinced the language in these packages is worded so companies with healthy balance sheets wouldn't be punished for "taking" some of this money when they don't really need or want it - They already feel the language is too stiff and don't really need the money, but were/are forced to participate in order to prevent mass hysteria from breaking out regarding the so called "too big to fail" banks.

03-18-2009, 06:36 PM	#4
raz-0 Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Central NJ Posts: 470	Sorry khardur, you are just wrong. The intial bailouts for AIG were rather void of rules. Which is why language to fix some of that was included in revisions of the second half of the stimulus package. Since they had not yet engaged on paying out bonuses at the time of the legislation, it likely wouldn't even have been challengable as an ex post facto law or regulation. It was removed because of political pressure. Dodd spearheaded it, because his state likely stands to lose a great deal of income tax revenue if those bonuses aren't paid out. Right or left has little to do with it. The fact that they will spend hundreds of millions of dollars chasing a small fraction of that in the form of state tax revenue is horrificly stupid, and all too commonplace.

03-18-2009, 07:43 PM	#5
creampuff Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,953	Why even bail-out those clever financial hacks in those financial institutions? Either let them go into receivership or take over them completely. Half measures don't work but unfortunately Americans are adverse to even the mention of the dreaded nationalization.

03-18-2009, 07:52 PM	#6
Damn Brit Guest	There was an item on the local news here tonight, the Bank of Marin had been given 28 million and had loaned out 27 million of it already. They are now trying to give it back because they say the new rules are too restrictive. This administration hasn't been around long enough yet to be judged IMO. I personally wouldn't trust anything I heard on F** news, last time I saw it (sometime last year), they still hadn't come round to the fact that there are and were no WMDs.

03-18-2009, 08:29 PM	#7
graphicgr8s Guest	Balto, you're just a right wing nut watching the worst news network in the world. I mean they are so right wing it's a joke to call them a news network. If you want the real facts you should be watching quality news networks such as CNN. And Clearchannel is even worse than Fox. I mean they are so right wing. Why just to spite people they actually let Air America broadcast on their stations. What nerve. Hmmph! Guess by now ya'll realize this is sarcasm. The current leader of the treasury was instrumental in negotiating those contracts with the bonuses. Then says he didn't know about it. Says incompetance to me. Besides being a tax cheat. Geithner should be fired but that won't happen. Dodd and Frank should be in jail. And Fox sure has a lot more liberal hosts than the Communist News Network has Conservatives. They say they give the bonuses for retention. Retention? These are the idiots that drove the company into this situation. They should be fired and competent personell should be brought in. At least Liddy is only making $1.00 per year and he came in after all this crap happened What about Obama not choosing lobbyists? What hapened to that? The fox is watching the hen house

03-18-2009, 08:52 PM	#8
Clicker Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,241	Originally posted by creampuff Why even bail-out those clever financial hacks in those financial institutions? Either let them go into receivership or take over them completely. Half measures don't work but unfortunately Americans are adverse to even the mention of the dreaded nationalization. Unfortunately, the Financials are the ones who basically run the economy and AIG being one of the biggest, if let go as some say, would have cause a huge meltdown mushroom effect out towards the rest of the world. I too was outraged at the bonuses being paid but with things so chaotic and the speed they had to react, some holes weren't covered. I don't think our PM Harper can be compared to Bush, because Harper doesn't look agile enough to duck a couple of boots

03-18-2009, 08:55 PM	#9
code4code5 Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 438	Originally posted by graphicgr8s Balto, you're just a right wing nut watching the worst news network in the world. I mean they are so right wing it's a joke to call them a news network. If you want the real facts you should be watching quality news networks such as CNN. And Clearchannel is even worse than Fox. I mean they are so right wing. Why just to spite people they actually let Air America broadcast on their stations. What nerve. Hmmph! Guess by now ya'll realize this is sarcasm. The current leader of the treasury was instrumental in negotiating those contracts with the bonuses. Then says he didn't know about it. Says incompetance to me. Besides being a tax cheat. Geithner should be fired but that won't happen. Dodd and Frank should be in jail. And Fox sure has a lot more liberal hosts than the Communist News Network has Conservatives. They say they give the bonuses for retention. Retention? These are the idiots that drove the company into this situation. They should be fired and competent personell should be brought in. At least Liddy is only making $1.00 per year and he came in after all this crap happened What about Obama not choosing lobbyists? What hapened to that? The fox is watching the hen house The American public is being played, folks!! Chris Dodd and his croonies are doing exactly what they wanted from this stimulus plan. "Corporations are evil. Don't you see? They're taking your money! It's not fair. The government is here to work for you and make sure this injustice won't stand!" Yeah... Guess what, ladies and gentlemen. It sure is easy to push a leftist agenda when capitalisim is played as a scape goat. Remember, Big Brother loves you!

03-18-2009, 09:01 PM	#10
graphicgr8s Guest	Originally posted by code4code5 The American public is being played, folks!! Chris Dodd and his croonies are doing exactly what they wanted from this stimulus plan. "Corporations are evil. Don't you see? They're taking your money! It's not fair. The government is here to work for you and make sure this injustice won't stand!" Yeah... Guess what, ladies and gentlemen. It sure is easy to push a leftist agenda when capitalisim is played as a scape goat. Remember, Big Brother loves you! I think I've been insulted. How dare you call me a gentleman!

03-18-2009, 09:41 PM	#12
code4code5 Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 438	Originally posted by graphicgr8s I think I've been insulted. How dare you call me a gentleman! Point taken.

03-19-2009, 07:38 AM	#13
mithrandir Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Maryland Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,895	One fact remains. No elected Congressman or Senator read the Stimulus bills before voting on them.

03-19-2009, 08:23 AM	#14
slomojoe Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 788	I tend to agree with the general assessment, though not with the details. I think it is obvious that the Treasury blew it badly in this case, and this is unfortunately not an isolated instance at this point (fortunately, mostly on small impact stuff - as this is - but quite visibly nonetheless). It is also true that Dodd and whoever else was involved on the Senate side were too compliant with the Trasury demands in this case. I am not sure what the rationalization for the change from the original language was. Clearly, there was a lot of pressure at the time from the usual media and political sources against anything that smells like limiting executive salaries (charges of socialism and related nonsense). Possibly, the administration felt that the political price to pay would be too high for a relatively small risk, and if so I am sure they now regret the miscalculation. Unfortunately, however, I am starting to have a feeling that Geithner is not what he was sold to be: a centrist Republican with a good relationship with business and finance types and a giant wonky brain for banking and macroeconomy issues. So far, he has seemed to me entirely too eager to protect his buddies in the finance world, at the expense of the public interests. The people who dragged the entire economy to the brink because of speculations that at this point look borderline criminal did so in a clear attempt to enrich themselves in a business that grants huge short-term financial rewards precisely for that kind of gung-ho approach. At some point, that entire world attitude has to be brought down a couple notches, starting from a taxation system that unduly favors investment over labor earnings, and ending with the aggrandizement and over-rewarding of financial traders and other glorified accountant types.

03-19-2009, 09:03 AM	#15
graphicgr8s Guest	Originally posted by mithrandir One fact remains. No elected Congressman or Senator read the Stimulus bills before voting on them. How could they have read it? The last one signed by Obama "All hail the Obama" had to be signed before 6 p.m on a Friday because Stretch Pelosi had to be onboard the Botox 1 for the flight to meet the Pope. And they flew the other senator in I forget the name, but she/he was in the midwest for a family member's funeral and signed at 10 p.m. Then Obama "All hail the Obama" waited for what, three days so he could do it with all the fanfare in Colorado. What a joke. Centrist Republican? Yeah right. He's a crook. If he were a Republican he would have gracefully stepped down as did the others. And most stepped down from personal problems, not political like Blogo. Libs go down kicking and screaming. Reps do it with grace. Problem is now with bringing a bill to tax 90-100% of the bonuses they have pretty much walked all over him (Geithner) and have shown they have NO confidence in him. Well, Obama "All hail the Obama" still does.